What is a "Can't Beat" price for 2010 Bowman Chrome?

[All In Cards]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

eh, i will kindly disagree as we enter 2011

2005? absolutely, but not in 2011

 

[All In Cards]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

eh, i will kindly disagree as we enter 2011

2005? absolutely, but not in 2011

did you walk around the national? if everyone was so up and up in whats going on in the hobby dont you think there would have been more prospect tables.

maybe not 75%, lets say 60% then

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

eh, i will kindly disagree as we enter 2011

2005? absolutely, but not in 2011

Walking the National in Baltimore this year completely validates TBP here. I didn't see nearly as many dealers pulling out their beckett to decide what to charge...they all had laptops and internet connections and they were checking ebay completed auctions.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

[quote="All In Cards":1wvssa6s]75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

eh, i will kindly disagree as we enter 2011

2005? absolutely, but not in 2011

did you walk around the national? if everyone was so up and up in whats going on in the hobby dont you think there would have been more prospect tables.

maybe not 75%, lets say 60% then[/quote:1wvssa6s]

i sure did walk the national. i see what your saying, but i also wound up not spending a grand or so because those sellers are delusional when it comes to pricing their slabs. Why would i give someone $50 for a BGS 9 that sells on eBay for $20?

 

[SportsCardMojo]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

I don't have hard numbers, but I can tell you this. Ebay is a tool or a reference point. Not the end all be all. When I was trying to offload my TC Strasburg Autos, I saw them sell between $150-$200 around the same time I sold mine. So is $150 the TMV? I call that buyer "lucky" and the seller "unlucky". I eventually sold my card to a hobby shop for $180. Also, what's the point of having Beckett guides when people rarely get BV for their cards? Don't you think it's kind of silly to give a card a BV of $150 when you can only get $50 for it? Prices are all over the place on ebay.

If I'm average Joe collector, and I want to buy a box of anything, I'll know what boxes go for by looking at places like Blowout and Atlanta. Then if I happen to get a box off ebay for less, I did good. But in no way is that TMV. It's called getting a bargain.

 

[SeattleSports]

I don't see how ebay isnt a test of true value. It just shows where demand meets others demand.

I don't know how you could argue the equilibrium price is anything other than the most recent ebay auction.

If 2010 Bowman Chrome sells for $550 a case on eBay all day long but companies like blowout are listing it for $750, which is the real value of the case?

 

[SeattleSports]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

I don't have hard numbers, but I can tell you this. Ebay is a tool or a reference point. Not the end all be all. When I was trying to offload my TC Strasburg Autos, I saw them sell between $150-$200 around the same time I sold mine. So is $150 the TMV? I call that buyer "lucky" and the seller "unlucky". I eventually sold my card to a hobby shop for $180. Also, what's the point of having Beckett guides when people rarely get BV for their cards? Don't you think it's kind of silly to give a card a BV of $150 when you can only get $50 for it? Prices are all over the place on ebay.

If I'm average Joe collector, and I want to buy a box of anything, I'll know what boxes go for by looking at places like Blowout and Atlanta. Then if I happen to get a box off ebay for less, I did good. But in no way is that TMV. It's called getting a bargain.

You have a completely different argument. Beckett Value has NO value to the value of a card, none whatsoever. It's just an arbitrary $ that beckett assigned the card.

And by the way, if you look at what prices go for on a website like blowout, you're looking at an asking price, not what they go for. That's like searching ebay and seeing 5 buy it nows for a box at $120 and assigning a value of $120 when it only sells for $50. $50 is the market value of the box.

 

[SportsCardMojo]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

eh, i will kindly disagree as we enter 2011

2005? absolutely, but not in 2011

Walking the National in Baltimore this year completely validates TBP here. I didn't see nearly as many dealers pulling out their beckett to decide what to charge...they all had laptops and internet connections and they were checking ebay completed auctions.

But that's partly because of the rapid fluctuations in prices due to the market this year. I think everyone made off if they pulled a decent hit this year. Last year, you probably would have received a fraction of that.

 

[All In Cards]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

I don't have hard numbers, but I can tell you this. Ebay is a tool or a reference point. Not the end all be all. When I was trying to offload my TC Strasburg Autos, I saw them sell between $150-$200 around the same time I sold mine. So is $150 the TMV? I call that buyer "lucky" and the seller "unlucky". I eventually sold my card to a hobby shop for $180. Also, what's the point of having Beckett guides when people rarely get BV for their cards? Don't you think it's kind of silly to give a card a BV of $150 when you can only get $50 for it? Prices are all over the place on ebay.

If I'm average Joe collector, and I want to buy a box of anything, I'll know what boxes go for by looking at places like Blowout and Atlanta. Then if I happen to get a box off ebay for less, I did good. But in no way is that TMV. It's called getting a bargain.

You have a completely different argument. Beckett Value has NO value to the value of a card, none whatsoever. It's just an arbitrary $ that beckett assigned the card.

And by the way, if you look at what prices go for on a website like blowout, you're looking at an asking price, not what they go for. That's like searching ebay and seeing 5 buy it nows for a box at $120 and assigning a value of $120 when it only sells for $50. $50 is the market value of the box.

How many people really ask how much something is, they just click buy and thats it. So for the majority of people buying the asking price is the actual price they are paying.

 

[SportsCardMojo]

75% of the collecting community still does not use EBAY. I dont see how you can use EBAY as the true market value.

75% might be high but I think its could be higher. You got to realize maybe 1% of collectors are on messages boards like we are and dont know whats going on in the hobby.

They will still go to Walmart, Kmart, Target, Amazon and other places and pay retail price and be happy with their purchase.

I don't have hard numbers, but I can tell you this. Ebay is a tool or a reference point. Not the end all be all. When I was trying to offload my TC Strasburg Autos, I saw them sell between $150-$200 around the same time I sold mine. So is $150 the TMV? I call that buyer "lucky" and the seller "unlucky". I eventually sold my card to a hobby shop for $180. Also, what's the point of having Beckett guides when people rarely get BV for their cards? Don't you think it's kind of silly to give a card a BV of $150 when you can only get $50 for it? Prices are all over the place on ebay.

If I'm average Joe collector, and I want to buy a box of anything, I'll know what boxes go for by looking at places like Blowout and Atlanta. Then if I happen to get a box off ebay for less, I did good. But in no way is that TMV. It's called getting a bargain.

You have a completely different argument. Beckett Value has NO value to the value of a card, none whatsoever. It's just an arbitrary $ that beckett assigned the card.

And by the way, if you look at what prices go for on a website like blowout, you're looking at an asking price, not what they go for. That's like searching ebay and seeing 5 buy it nows for a box at $120 and assigning a value of $120 when it only sells for $50. $50 is the market value of the box.

Market Value is an average. Not the lowest price you can buy something. If everyone sells boxes at $100 and someone trys to offload stuff at $50, the TMV is not $50. Once again, that's just a bargain.

The other day, I sold a base set of Topps update for $12. Everyone else sold for around $15. Is $12 the TMV of the base set?

If you want to talk BC, last week, most retailers had a case at $899. I found a case for $795. And ebay probably had it at $650. So you are telling me $650 is the TMV? That's obsurd.

I can tell you this...if you look at most of the people on this forum upset with BC, it's not because they bought cases at $650. And if everyone else is selling at $899, all the people buying at $650 should be jumping for joy... I can guarantee that if we took a poll, most people who bought BC before today paid $750+. Anyone that paid less would be the minority and a very small percentage. $750 would be a more accurate measurement of TMV.

 

[SeattleSports]

I can tell you this...if you look at most of the people on this forum upset with BC, it's not because they bought cases at $650. And if everyone else is selling at $899, all the people buying at $650 should be jumping for joy... I can guarantee that if we took a poll, most people who bought BC before today paid $750+. Anyone that paid less would be the minority and a very small percentage. $750 would be a more accurate measurement of TMV.

The current market value is $550, not $899, not $750, not $650, it's $550.

You are completely neglecting the outside influences that change the products value.

The true market value is $550, if you don't believe me ask atlanta sportscards. They have it currently listed at $899 on their website, yet they have sold a handful for $550 on ebay in the last 24 hours and they listed more today.

 

[SportsCardMojo]

I can tell you this...if you look at most of the people on this forum upset with BC, it's not because they bought cases at $650. And if everyone else is selling at $899, all the people buying at $650 should be jumping for joy... I can guarantee that if we took a poll, most people who bought BC before today paid $750+. Anyone that paid less would be the minority and a very small percentage. $750 would be a more accurate measurement of TMV.

The current market value is $550, not $899, not $750, not $650, it's $550.

You are completely neglecting the outside influences that change the products value.

The true market value is $550, if you don't believe me ask atlanta sportscards. They have it currently listed at $899 on their website, yet they have sold a handful for $550 on ebay in the last 24 hours and they listed more today.

Trust me, I understand what you are saying. You are saying that if people go to ebay right now, they can find cases at $550. That point is clear...clear as day. But to say that's TMV is very misleading. Because I can't walk into my LCS and get that price. I can't go to any retailer and get that price. Even if I tried to buy a box off someone on this forum, I can promise you, they will not give me that price. If I was at the Expo in Toronto, I would not get that price. Because it's NOT TMV.

If I'm a retailer...and I ordered 100 cases at $400 a case and listed it at $900 per case. Then demand is low and I realize I'm going to be stuck with $40,000 worth of merchandise...so I offload cases at cost. Saves me from my money being tied up in stock and it benefits the cusomters who get an incredible discount. Even though I'm selling cases WAY below everyone else, it still doesn't make it the TMV. It's still just a discount. Because everyone else is still selling it for much more.

Anyway, this argument is going nowhere. It's clear you and I don't have the same perspective of the market. Regardless, this is way off topic from the OP. Clearly, the OP wasn't factoring in ebay either.

Going by your numbers, it's a good time to buy BC. $45 per box is a good price. How many cases have you purchased? And you should clue everyone else in on where you are finding these prices so that we can get some good breaks on this board.

 

[SeattleSports]

I can tell you this...if you look at most of the people on this forum upset with BC, it's not because they bought cases at $650. And if everyone else is selling at $899, all the people buying at $650 should be jumping for joy... I can guarantee that if we took a poll, most people who bought BC before today paid $750+. Anyone that paid less would be the minority and a very small percentage. $750 would be a more accurate measurement of TMV.

The current market value is $550, not $899, not $750, not $650, it's $550.

You are completely neglecting the outside influences that change the products value.

The true market value is $550, if you don't believe me ask atlanta sportscards. They have it currently listed at $899 on their website, yet they have sold a handful for $550 on ebay in the last 24 hours and they listed more today.

Trust me, I understand what you are saying. You are saying that if people go to ebay right now, they can find cases at $550. That point is clear...clear as day. But to say that's TMV is very misleading. Because I can't walk into my LCS and get that price. I can't go to any retailer and get that price. Even if I tried to buy a box off someone on this forum, I can promise you, they will not give me that price. If I was at the Expo in Toronto, I would not get that price. Because it's NOT TMV.

If I'm a retailer...and I ordered 100 cases at $400 a case and listed it at $900 per case. Then demand is low and I realize I'm going to be stuck with $40,000 worth of merchandise...so I offload cases at cost. Saves me from my money being tied up in stock and it benefits the cusomters who get an incredible discount. Even though I'm selling cases WAY below everyone else, it still doesn't make it the TMV. It's still just a discount. Because everyone else is still selling it for much more.

Anyway, this argument is going nowhere. It's clear you and I don't have the same perspective of the market. Regardless, this is way off topic from the OP. Clearly, the OP wasn't factoring in ebay either.

Going by your numbers, it's a good time to buy BC. $45 per box is a good price. How many cases have you purchased? And you should clue everyone else in on where you are finding these prices so that we can get some good breaks on this board.

Sorry I have my masters in economics and we've actually discussed a topic like this to death so I'm stuck to my perspective.

I haven't purchased a single case yet as I'm waiting for prices to drop. Last case sold for $512 a few minutes ago to a seller with 4500 feedback at 100%. Atlanta still has cases ending tonight as well. I'm waiting till it drops to $400ish to jump in, which is $33 per box.

No point buying while it declines, I'm going to wait till it hits the floor. I think it hits $400 by next week.

 

[wickedliquids]

After reading the posts, I think it's almost like comparing apples to oranges - the difference being that the product is the same - BC vs BC. I think you need to look at it from a couple of different view points:

DACardworld, Blowout, Atlanta - all sell the same product, but going by the way of Walmart vs Target - it's about volume purchases. It's up to the buyers from the hobby card retailers to speculate what the their sales may bear once BC is released. I'm going to make the assumption that a significant amount was purchased from those three retailers for distribution to guys like us.

Going retail is a completely different beast; Walmart can put in one order that CAN and probably WILL dwarf all three card-sites significantly. Walmart has a particular price point/profit margin that they have to meet, which would explain why buying a hobby box of TC would be cheaper than buying a retail box of TC.

I'm also going to gather there maybe rumors abounding now (especially after the release of the info of the odds of Stras' seeded in the product) in which someone that is mathematically inclined took a rough estimate of how much product was made - between the specific hobby based retailers vs the brick and mortar retailers. And that number was pretty damn big.

Thus the "price" war. The last thing you want, as per common business sense, is to have too much of a product that several other people do; you end up with way too much and since selling is so important, these things have a shelf life - the first one out of the starting gate will sell the most, thereby holding less of the product in case the prices drop, which have shown in the last several weeks, that's exactly what is happening.

So the questions/debate is good, but I think the thought processes might be a tiny bit more narrow in terms of not factoring in the bigger picture.

 

[brouthercard]

If factory cost is $47 a box, then $27 a box is a can't beat price, which is the lowest that 2008 BC got down to.

 

[wickedliquids]

If factory cost is $47 a box, then $27 a box is a can't beat price, which is the lowest that 2008 BC got down to.

I was wondering, as I wasn't really heavily back into the hobby then - but what happen to the 08 BC that made it drop so hard?

 

[cgilmo]

What is a "Can't Beat" price for 2010 Bowman Chrome?

If anyone wants it at 45 I can do it.

 

[sunojorel]

Guys,
What I think everyone is not remembering is that a brick and morter store has rent overhead etc (ie: Atlanta), if they are selling on top of that via ebay the cases selling for $550 are not truly realizing $550 per case, Via ebay & paypal you fork over roughly 10% in seller and paypal fees so a $550 case with free s/h (call it $13 per case) really only gets the seller back roughly $485 per case. This loss doesn't even reflect the cost to the business of having that money tied up if they bought direct.



all that being said Ebay is a great reference to go by.
BLOWOUT, D&A etc asking $800 per shows their price they are trying to sell at. Ebay shows a more realistic true market value for the product IN THIS INDUSTRY more than any other.

perfect example of this differance is:

Someone buying a DVD or Blu-Ray at a mall's electronics store,
DVD set is $50 there and can be found on Amazon and Ebay for $30.
The electronics store represents their asking retail price for people that are not educated enough to know how to shop for and find the true market price for same said item.


That being said I am into over a dozen cases at an average of $635 dlvd each. (I bought the day after the revised rosters were listed 6 weeks ago in anticipation of a lower TMV and explained my offer prices while doing so).
I am not here to complain about my "buy in price" (although I could have saved about a $1000 if I waited till now)

As for my point of referance and why I feel i can speak about this subject from an experienced viewpoint..
l own a retail store (not sports related, I am actually fortunate to cater to a demographic that will always have disposable income ..Women 35-65 demo..) and fully realize that what I sell my items for is not the TMV for my items, I'm just lower priced that the big boys that spend tens of thousands for national brand recognition.

 

[brouthercard]

If factory cost is $47 a box, then $27 a box is a can't beat price, which is the lowest that 2008 BC got down to.

I was wondering, as I wasn't really heavily back into the hobby then - but what happen to the 08 BC that made it drop so hard?

The offseason, Villalona in jail, Lars sucked it, and essentially all the base cards had no value (even the Domonic was not hyped at that time). There were over 40 autos in the checklist, and I believe the most a Lars chrome auto sold for was about $30-$40, as your best auto hit.

Topps mass produced the product big time as they were still milking their cash cow at the peak of the prospecting game, and really shot themselves in the foot by delivering a true crap product, with a really lack-luster auto checklist- they got greedy, and the secondary market responded big time.

They made up for it with collectors with 2008 bowman draft, then started getting stupid again in 2009 due to the Razor exclusive signees.

The current prices of 2010 cases clearly reflects:

A) The bad economy with fewer people being able to afford baseball cards
B) Burnt pseudo-prospectors
C) The bad economy preventing people from being able to "sit" on products for years
D) The dying of baseball's popularity as a sport
E) Burnt out ex-prospectors
F) Topps' greed and the bad timing with the Stras injury
G) Topps' shooting itself in the foot again thinking that they are able to print money with the bowman chrome brand every year and not learning from the near past
H) The era of the pitcher, and the dying power numbers for the sport, leading to dying excitement
I) Baseball realizing that Sosa/Mcgwire was the best and the worst thing that ever happened to the sport
J) The death of Bowman chrome