What's the future of game used?

[uniquebaseballcards]

+1

You know the 'non-elite' collectors aren't particularly concerned with any secondary market, they're just in it for fun. Its jst the way it should be.

Game used card market is trash. Card comapnies love it, they don't even have to even prove the stuff is legit. Just hack it up and no one will know. Even then they have been busted putting garbage on cards.

I'd like to see card companies insert redemptions for full game used pieces that are authenticated by MLB auctions. Wouldn't it be cool if they bought a bunch of game used stars and stripes caps, game used pink Mothers Day bats and had redemptions for them. Much better than game used cards, by a mile. It is amazing how many people have dropped cards and went to collecting full game used pieces. Gameuseduniverse.com has tripled in members it seems in last year from card collectors switching over.

True, actual entire game-used pieces would be great, but they're priced WAY out of a lot of collectors' price ranges. Plus, they're not sold near the registers at Target.

I think most card collectors think this and it's far from true. You can get get used MLB autheticated balls for $25-$50, same with scorecards. Bats can be real cheap from common types as well. Find them $25 or so on Ebay. Even at many team fanfest they start common/scrub players at $25 and some even are MLB authenticated. Jerseys start at $75. Heck during MEiGray summer and Holiday sales Texas Rangers can be had for $50. Even NHL jerseys at under $150 and same with Philadelphia Eagles gamers. Sometimes even the MLB/NHL/NFL auctions game used pieces can be had for deals. Just have to do more work. Your right on cards though with them being so easy to buy. But nothing like finding a full game used piece. I used to do only cards, then got into full game used and it blows away cards. Then you are always on the lookout for photomatches after it.

 

[JoshHamilton]

I think the market will come tumbling down when it's proven both Topps and UD are inserting non game used swatches and marketing them as game used. I'm not talking about using vague verbiage like "relic," such as Topps did with the Ruth seat cards; I'm talking about putting in fake swatches. They're already doing it, too bad collectors are too lazy and complacent to care or even question/demand an explanation about where the supposed "game used" items were acquired

Proof?

That's a pretty inflammatory accusation to just throw out there.

I have about as much proof they're fake as manufacturers have proof they're authentic.

At this point, we're deadlocked at zero. I do have one thing going for me, though. The burden of proof (should) rest on their shoulders; not mine

 

[francisjniskey]

I think the market will come tumbling down when it's proven both Topps and UD are inserting non game used swatches and marketing them as game used. I'm not talking about using vague verbiage like "relic," such as Topps did with the Ruth seat cards; I'm talking about putting in fake swatches. They're already doing it, too bad collectors are too lazy and complacent to care or even question/demand an explanation about where the supposed "game used" items were acquired

Proof?

That's a pretty inflammatory accusation to just throw out there.

when they inserted Josh Gibson "game used" bat cards, When infact the bat was not game used but a game model bat his family had.

I didn't think Topps referred to them as being Game Used. I always thought they represented them as game model bats. Out of curiousity do you have any proof to back this up? A link to them declaring the cards as Game Used maybe? Would sure like to see it. Not that I am a big fan of Topps and I don't think anyone can hate Upperdeck more then me. That would be impossible for someone to have that much hate . I just like seeing things backed up with facts instead of bro-science. Believe me I hate Topps for it's recent scam of using "Bench" pieces on cards and being less then vocal of where the pieces game from. Kind of like they got their hand caught in the cookie jar before they would fess up about the pieces. Pretty low class in my opinion. All I could find was this on the Josh Gibson's:

http://www.tradingcardcentral.com/news/ ... 19_001.php

http://www.beckett.com/estore/news/?a=7776

 

[predatorkj]

Couldn't agree more with serial numbering! I just don't get it (in most cases), especially with game used and autographs. A sticker from the same sheet is applied to various colors of border or whatever, yet one is more "rare" than the other? How is that not the same thing?

I did a post on this with the on-card Sweet Beginnings autographs in Sweet Spot: http://pricelesspursuit.wordpress.com/2 ... numbering/

One is numbered to 499, the other to 65. But how can the /65 possibly treated as more rare? Cahill signed the same stack, and there are 564 Cahill Sweet Beginnings autos out there. Some just happen to have a different color border. If the autograph is all you want, why not just get the less rare version for a lot cheaper? And this is coming from the guy who pulled the more "rare" version and STILL doesn't like it!!

Thats my thinking on buying autographs that are not base rookie autos. Hockey collectors are the exception to the low number parallel verison selling higher than the base version. They also love non numbered short print cards. But If I wanna buy a Jordan auto a 300 dollar on card is the same to me as a 1200 dollar on card low number one.

Bingo. A wise collector once told me something that changed the way I view memorabilia. He told me to always ask myself "Where is the value of the card?" when determining value. Your Jordan point is a great point. If I am in the markey for a Jordan auto I am not going to pay a ton for a lower serial number. A Jordan auto is a Jordan auto. I'll save a ton of cash and go with the cheaper copy.

You guys are missing the point. Now if I was looking for a random player...say I really wanted a Cal Ripken Jr. auto...the numbering might not matter much to me. But the look of the card would. And its common knowledge that most of the lower numbered stuff is better looking. Not always but mostly.

In any case...the real point is...most people collect cards of a certain player. Hence they are paying more for the card than the auto. This is and always should be true. I said it a few days ago in another thread but a Bagwell auto only brings about an extra $10-$25 to a card(maybe a bit more or less depending on a number of variables). So what I am really paying for is the card and the type of card. Hence a lower numbered copy is going to go for more because more people will go after it because its harder to find and they need that card. The auto itself is not necessarily the reason people are going after it. Its just adding on an extra $10 or $25 to the card. The card is what it is and its what people are paying for. Hell...if you wanted a player's auto at all...why even buy a card or even buy a particular card for that matter? People aren't necessarily paying for that. And the ones who are...maybe they want a rare auto'd card. The emphasis being on the card being rare and auto'd but the point is...the card only has so many copies. That is the point.


As far as GU...not sure what will become of it but as of right now...I don't understand why people are upset. Its today's rinky dink insert much like you might have pulled a finest refractor or a diecut insert out of pacific back in the 90's. Just consider it as such. I am sure the companies will come up with something. Other than autos...who envisioned that we would even have GU stuff in cards 15 years ago? The trend then was nice and shiney or diecut and embossed but in any case...they always find a way to go another route. Not sure what it may be but something will come along. IMO...they let inserts get way out of hand before they came up with the auto and GU idea which is why most of the 90's stuff is not worth nearly as much as it used to be. They killed it. If they hadn't changed... even things like Crusades and inverted atomic refractors wouldn't be worth much.

See...they went from base cards being where the real value was at to inserts being where the real value was at. Now they have gone to GU and autos. The time will come where they change. But everyone and their brother got tired of normal base cards so the inserts had to come or there wouldn't have been many more collectors staying on. The same can be said now.

 

[francisjniskey]

Couldn't agree more with serial numbering! I just don't get it (in most cases), especially with game used and autographs. A sticker from the same sheet is applied to various colors of border or whatever, yet one is more "rare" than the other? How is that not the same thing?

I did a post on this with the on-card Sweet Beginnings autographs in Sweet Spot: http://pricelesspursuit.wordpress.com/2 ... numbering/

One is numbered to 499, the other to 65. But how can the /65 possibly treated as more rare? Cahill signed the same stack, and there are 564 Cahill Sweet Beginnings autos out there. Some just happen to have a different color border. If the autograph is all you want, why not just get the less rare version for a lot cheaper? And this is coming from the guy who pulled the more "rare" version and STILL doesn't like it!!

Thats my thinking on buying autographs that are not base rookie autos. Hockey collectors are the exception to the low number parallel verison selling higher than the base version. They also love non numbered short print cards. But If I wanna buy a Jordan auto a 300 dollar on card is the same to me as a 1200 dollar on card low number one.

Bingo. A wise collector once told me something that changed the way I view memorabilia. He told me to always ask myself "Where is the value of the card?" when determining value. Your Jordan point is a great point. If I am in the markey for a Jordan auto I am not going to pay a ton for a lower serial number. A Jordan auto is a Jordan auto. I'll save a ton of cash and go with the cheaper copy.

You guys are missing the point. Now if I was looking for a random player...say I really wanted a Cal Ripken Jr. auto...the numbering might not matter much to me. But the look of the card would. And its common knowledge that most of the lower numbered stuff is better looking. Not always but mostly.

In any case...the real point is...most people collect cards of a certain player. Hence they are paying more for the card than the auto. This is and always should be true. I said it a few days ago in another thread but a Bagwell auto only brings about an extra $10-$25 to a card(maybe a bit more or less depending on a number of variables). So what I am really paying for is the card and the type of card. Hence a lower numbered copy is going to go for more because more people will go after it because its harder to find and they need that card. The auto itself is not necessarily the reason people are going after it. Its just adding on an extra $10 or $25 to the card. The card is what it is and its what people are paying for. Hell...if you wanted a player's auto at all...why even buy a card or even buy a particular card for that matter? People aren't necessarily paying for that. And the ones who are...maybe they want a rare auto'd card. The emphasis being on the card being rare and auto'd but the point is...the card only has so many copies. That is the point.


As far as GU...not sure what will become of it but as of right now...I don't understand why people are upset. Its today's rinky dink insert much like you might have pulled a finest refractor or a diecut insert out of pacific back in the 90's. Just consider it as such. I am sure the companies will come up with something. Other than autos...who envisioned that we would even have GU stuff in cards 15 years ago? The trend then was nice and shiney or diecut and embossed but in any case...they always find a way to go another route. Not sure what it may be but something will come along. IMO...they let inserts get way out of hand before they came up with the auto and GU idea which is why most of the 90's stuff is not worth nearly as much as it used to be. They killed it. If they hadn't changed... even things like Crusades and inverted atomic refractors wouldn't be worth much.

See...they went from base cards being where the real value was at to inserts being where the real value was at. Now they have gone to GU and autos. The time will come where they change. But everyone and their brother got tired of normal base cards so the inserts had to come or there wouldn't have been many more collectors staying on. The same can be said now.

Well Said

 

[eenrique25]

Couldn't agree more with serial numbering! I just don't get it (in most cases), especially with game used and autographs. A sticker from the same sheet is applied to various colors of border or whatever, yet one is more "rare" than the other? How is that not the same thing?

I did a post on this with the on-card Sweet Beginnings autographs in Sweet Spot: http://pricelesspursuit.wordpress.com/2 ... numbering/

One is numbered to 499, the other to 65. But how can the /65 possibly treated as more rare? Cahill signed the same stack, and there are 564 Cahill Sweet Beginnings autos out there. Some just happen to have a different color border. If the autograph is all you want, why not just get the less rare version for a lot cheaper? And this is coming from the guy who pulled the more "rare" version and STILL doesn't like it!!

Thats my thinking on buying autographs that are not base rookie autos. Hockey collectors are the exception to the low number parallel verison selling higher than the base version. They also love non numbered short print cards. But If I wanna buy a Jordan auto a 300 dollar on card is the same to me as a 1200 dollar on card low number one.

Bingo. A wise collector once told me something that changed the way I view memorabilia. He told me to always ask myself "Where is the value of the card?" when determining value. Your Jordan point is a great point. If I am in the markey for a Jordan auto I am not going to pay a ton for a lower serial number. A Jordan auto is a Jordan auto. I'll save a ton of cash and go with the cheaper copy.

This is the best thing ive read in months or even years, Ive always thought about this why would I pay a couple thousands for a 1/1 auto even if its the only card in the world (but a variation of a card numbered to /500) if I could buy an auto from the same guy for 30-50 bucks same guy same auto different variation same thing why I never became a fan of inserts.

 

[predatorkj]

This is the best thing ive read in months or even years, Ive always thought about this why would I pay a couple thousands for a 1/1 auto even if its the only card in the world (but a variation of a card numbered to /500) if I could buy an auto from the same guy for 30-50 bucks same guy same auto different variation same thing why I never became a fan of inserts.

Because you are not a player collector? If you were...you would understand the mentality. But in your case...why buy anything low numbered at all of any player if all you are after is an auto of a random player or even a card of a random player. In that case...why not just buy base cards and get them signed? There is a difference between just wanting an auto and wanting to collect a player. I have wanted many autos and have broken down and purchased a random one. I have one of Brandon Phillips I got for next to nothing since I do collect him but not hardcore. But my reasoning was that I only wanted an auto of him. If I collected Brandon Phillips hardcore...those inserts would matter to me. And to player collectors...they do matter.

 

[Superfractor]

I agree with predatorkj, the value of the card is not solely on the autograph, otherwise, every variant (including base) would garner the same (mean) price. SN gives the card value, as well as who is the focus on that piece of cardboard. Including an array of other attributes that are relative to what a card is.

The same can be said about GU cards: Why did I just buy that quad UD Black August patch and AU 1/1, for 40USD? When I could have purchased a full jersey, with all the logos and tags attached, for 100USD w/ an autograph on the NOB? Because it's about the card.

 

[jswaykos]

Game used card market is trash. Card comapnies love it, they don't even have to even prove the stuff is legit. Just hack it up and no one will know. Even then they have been busted putting garbage on cards.

I'd like to see card companies insert redemptions for full game used pieces that are authenticated by MLB auctions. Wouldn't it be cool if they bought a bunch of game used stars and stripes caps, game used pink Mothers Day bats and had redemptions for them. Much better than game used cards, by a mile. It is amazing how many people have dropped cards and went to collecting full game used pieces. Gameuseduniverse.com has tripled in members it seems in last year from card collectors switching over.

True, actual entire game-used pieces would be great, but they're priced WAY out of a lot of collectors' price ranges. Plus, they're not sold near the registers at Target.

I think most card collectors think this and it's far from true. You can get get used MLB autheticated balls for $25-$50, same with scorecards. Bats can be real cheap from common types as well. Find them $25 or so on Ebay. Even at many team fanfest they start common/scrub players at $25 and some even are MLB authenticated. Jerseys start at $75. Heck during MEiGray summer and Holiday sales Texas Rangers can be had for $50. Even NHL jerseys at under $150 and same with Philadelphia Eagles gamers. Sometimes even the MLB/NHL/NFL auctions game used pieces can be had for deals. Just have to do more work. Your right on cards though with them being so easy to buy. But nothing like finding a full game used piece. I used to do only cards, then got into full game used and it blows away cards. Then you are always on the lookout for photomatches after it.

So what, exactly, should I do with an authenticated ball? Put in a shelf? I play catch with the ones I get during BP before games, they're just baseballs. I suppose an actual jersey would be kinda cool, but then I have to make space to store a Marco Scutaro jersey.

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

People here call for the return of 90's inserts all the time. GU are the inserts now. And we should probably stop calling them GU, because it seems as if less and less them are.

I view them as an insert with a piece of cloth/wood on them.

 

[011873]

The card companies would love, LOVE, a return to 90s style inserts meaning a huge huge reduction of GU and autos.

A heck cheaper to produce cards with just serial numbers and die cuts than buying a jersey paying to cut it up etc. Before GU and autos became "common", high end premium packs were $7 and less (Finest, Flair, SPX, etc).

 

[jondawg04]

Having worked with more than a handful of athletes regarding their game used equipment, I feel I can add a little insight here. The game used items the card companies purchase from current players are in fact provided directly from the players/teams, but there is no evidence of use required. Without naming names, I know of at least one player who sent in a few bats he claimed to be game used but was open how he didn't like the feel of them (bat manufacturers send samples to many of the players free of charge) and never used em. Same goes with jerseys, the companies come strong ($500 per on the low-mid level guys), but once again all that is required is for the player to say he used it. As long as the player signs off on the contract stating he used it in a game, the card companies buy it.

I will say though, many of the more recent jerseys being submitted are being MLB authenticated, and as many of you know the MLB authenticators won't say a jersey is game used unless they see it come off the players back for the most part.

 

[masonphillip]

Having worked with more than a handful of athletes regarding their game used equipment, I feel I can add a little insight here. The game used items the card companies purchase from current players are in fact provided directly from the players/teams, but there is no evidence of use required. Without naming names, I know of at least one player who sent in a few bats he claimed to be game used but was open how he didn't like the feel of them (bat manufacturers send samples to many of the players free of charge) and never used em. Same goes with jerseys, the companies come strong ($500 per on the low-mid level guys), but once again all that is required is for the player to say he used it. As long as the player signs off on the contract stating he used it in a game, the card companies buy it.

I will say though, many of the more recent jerseys being submitted are being MLB authenticated, and as many of you know the MLB authenticators won't say a jersey is game used unless they see it come off the players back for the most part.

This is interesting and good. I don't worry as much about the newer stuff. What I worry about is for example, the Ted Williams patches in Ultimate...can we know what those are from? I'd love to see more specific information about the items included on the card.

 

[CollectorsCorner]

nice that they are watching what they get now

 

[predatorkj]

The card companies would love, LOVE, a return to 90s style inserts meaning a huge huge reduction of GU and autos.

A heck cheaper to produce cards with just serial numbers and die cuts than buying a jersey paying to cut it up etc. Before GU and autos became "common", high end premium packs were $7 and less (Finest, Flair, SPX, etc).

Trust me...there are a lot of costs invovled in including 90's inserts in a product. Some of those aren't cheap. My dad used to do printing and he knows a whole lot about the industry. Some of the cards boggle his mind and he is truly one of the few people who understand why some of this stuff died out and why they were expensive for the companies to make. Even though a GU jersey pice has to be individually cut...In reality...they don't have to sit there with a pair of scissors and cut each one. If they have a product that requires 250 Mike Jacobs jersey pieces, all the same size, then all they have to do is measure them out and use a machine to cut them. That way it gets done in a few minutes as opposed to a few hours.

But anything that requires a card having mutliple things done to come to the final product costs money. The 90's stuff truly required a lot of processes to come up with the final product depending on the card in question. And some of the things done with the cards are not cheap to do by any means. Especially when you are trying to mass produce them.