Who are the best current players that will never make HoF...

[Wes]

ITS OVER

ITS OVER


WES BUSTED OUT THE WAR

US COMMONERS SIMPLY CANNOT COMPREHEND

RBI's DONT COUNT, NOR DO ERRORS APPARENTLY :|


/THREAD

Since we're having such a civil, fact based discussion, I'll throw these "standard" numbers at you.

Kent
2461 Hits (10th all time)
377 HR (1st all time)
1320 Runs (12th all time)
1518 RBI (2nd all time)
.290 avg (20th all time (more than 1000 games))
.500 SLUG (3rd all time)

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Its a little strange that Kent never led his league in a statistical category.

 

[DeliciousBacon]

Its a little strange that Kent never led his league in a statistical category.

He did lead the league in thinking Barry Bonds was an obnoxious *****, especially in 2002. That's gotta count for something.

 

[Wes]

Its a little strange that Kent never led his league in a statistical category.

In 2001 and 1998 he led the league in sacrifice flies!

 

[Weimer]

thefatguy wrote:Weimer wrote:How does leading one category at the position you play = being the best at that position?
He doesn't even have the most RBI even though he has the most HR

Unsubstantial BA

Less than 2500 hits....close, but less...

You... you just quoted RBI as a HOF stat!? RBI is one of the most meaningless stats in baseball. Kent spent his prime hitting BEHIND BARRY BONDS.

Weimer wrote:How does leading one category at the position you play = being the best at that position?

I said "arguably the best hitting." There's an argument to be had there.

As far as overall here's some WAR numbers:

Lajoie 104.2
Morgan 103.5
Carew 79.1
Alomar 63.5
Robinson 63.2
Kent 59.4
Fox 44.4

Kent:
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 122 (111), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 51 (76), Average HOFer ? 50

When I made the post about best at his position I was referencing strasburgmanias comment about Kent being the best.

I combined his comments and yours in my response. Sorry for the confusion. All I was curious about with your comments is if you were saying/implying that because he leads all 2B in career HRs that it should mean he's automatically HoF worthy.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

 

[MOFNY]

Here's an interesting one: Johan Santana. I'm sure everyone thought he was on the right path. Now...hard to say.

 

[markakis8]

jeff kent?

I'd be appalled if he didn't make it. Arguably the best hitting second baseman of all time.

Good thing you don't have a vote

What's your argument? Other than taking a shot at me? The home run leader for a position isn't good enough for the Hall of Fame?

It's not a shot at you, it's a shot at Kent.

His name does not belong with Morgan, Robinson, Carew, Fox, LaJoie.

If he's in Luis Gonzalez is in.

I would argue that Jeff Kent was a better player than Joe Morgan and Nellie Fox.

 

[thefatguy]

[quote="miguelcabrera":30pv6fw2]jeff kent?

I'd be appalled if he didn't make it. Arguably the best hitting second baseman of all time.

Good thing you don't have a vote

What's your argument? Other than taking a shot at me? The home run leader for a position isn't good enough for the Hall of Fame?

It's not a shot at you, it's a shot at Kent.

His name does not belong with Morgan, Robinson, Carew, Fox, LaJoie.

If he's in Luis Gonzalez is in.

I would argue that Jeff Kent was a better player than Joe Morgan and Nellie Fox.[/quote:30pv6fw2]
And I would argue that collection Ben Zobrist and The Henry Rollins Band are a waste of time and money.

 

[PujolsCollector]

Its a little strange that Kent never led his league in a statistical category.

He did lead the league in thinking Barry Bonds was an obnoxious *****, especially in 2002. That's gotta count for something.

Counts for something in my book!! That alone makes him HOF worthy.

 

[markakis8]

And I would argue that collection Ben Zobrist and The Henry Rollins Band are a waste of time and money.

You are attacking someone and what they collect b/c your mad about someone getting into a debate with you?

Nice.

 

[PujolsCollector]

And I would argue that collection Ben Zobrist and The Henry Rollins Band are a waste of time and money.

You are attacking someone and what they collect b/c your mad about someone getting into a debate with you?

Nice.

On the internet none the less!

 

[jeff550]

Matt Stairs


Best PH of all time

 

[dietdew]

[quote="miguelcabrera":2cxfpw6h]jeff kent?

I'd be appalled if he didn't make it. Arguably the best hitting second baseman of all time.

Good thing you don't have a vote

What's your argument? Other than taking a shot at me? The home run leader for a position isn't good enough for the Hall of Fame?

It's not a shot at you, it's a shot at Kent.

His name does not belong with Morgan, Robinson, Carew, Fox, LaJoie.

If he's in Luis Gonzalez is in.

I would argue that Jeff Kent was a better player than Joe Morgan and Nellie Fox.[/quote:2cxfpw6h]

Has anyone benefited more from steroids that Kent (even if he never took any)? I about threw up when he retired and the experts were talking about Kent being first ballot. He should have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall.

 

[DeliciousBacon]

Has anyone benefited more from steroids that Kent (even if he never took any)? I about threw up when he retired and the experts were talking about Kent being first ballot. He should have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall.

Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds...the list goes on and on.

If you're talking about Kent's numbers being inflated by being on a team with Bonds, then you'd naturally agree that anyone who has ever played with Alex Rodriguez has suspect numbers as well (Jeter and Rivera can't make the HOF, I guess). Or all the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Astros who played behind Clemens when he pitched. Or all those other Cubs players who won all those World Series when Sosa was juicing and knocking out 400 HR a year. This is a pretty weak argument.

 

[thefatguy]

Kent was pretty outspoken against steroids. To the point that he even accused the old timers of not playing by the rules.

Updated: February 27, 2004, 3:09 PM ET
Kent: Old-timers deserve scrutiny, too

Associated Press
HOUSTON -- Jeff Kent knocked over a few monuments to make a point.

In a newspaper interview, Kent wondered aloud whether some of the game's hallowed past stars -- such as Lou Gehrig or Babe Ruth -- might have used performance-enhancing drugs.

He said Friday he wasn't accusing anyone of anything, just merely noting that there's no way to know either way.

"People are so pinned on the era now versus the era then," Kent said. "How do we know about then? Do we really know about then? I think we're starting to understand and learn more facts about now, so everybody's trying to relate the records broken, the way ballplayers are bigger and badder and better than ever now, but how do we know about then?

 

[D-Lite]

Has anyone benefited more from steroids that Kent (even if he never took any)? I about threw up when he retired and the experts were talking about Kent being first ballot. He should have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall.

Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds...the list goes on and on.

If you're talking about Kent's numbers being inflated by being on a team with Bonds, then you'd naturally agree that anyone who has ever played with Alex Rodriguez has suspect numbers as well (Jeter and Rivera can't make the HOF, I guess). Or all the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Astros who played behind Clemens when he pitched. Or all those other Cubs players who won all those World Series when Sosa was juicing and knocking out 400 HR a year. This is a pretty weak argument.

I'll support this stance if all the Red Sox that played/play with Ortiz or ManRam are disqualified as well. Might as well take back those two trophies, too.

Here's one to ponder: Teixeira
He'll have the counting stats for sure and defensively he's one of the best. I think Bagwell makes it then Teixeira makes it.

And for me, if a guy like Tim Raines still can't get in, the whole system is flawed beyond repair as it is.

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

Ryan Howard

unless they have a strikeout HOF, then he's a shoo-in

 

[DeliciousBacon]

Has anyone benefited more from steroids that Kent (even if he never took any)? I about threw up when he retired and the experts were talking about Kent being first ballot. He should have to buy a ticket to get into the Hall.

Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds...the list goes on and on.

If you're talking about Kent's numbers being inflated by being on a team with Bonds, then you'd naturally agree that anyone who has ever played with Alex Rodriguez has suspect numbers as well (Jeter and Rivera can't make the HOF, I guess). Or all the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Astros who played behind Clemens when he pitched. Or all those other Cubs players who won all those World Series when Sosa was juicing and knocking out 400 HR a year. This is a pretty weak argument.

I'll support this stance if all the Red Sox that played/play with Ortiz or ManRam are disqualified as well. Might as well take back those two trophies, too.

Here's one to ponder: Teixeira
He'll have the counting stats for sure and defensively he's one of the best. I think Bagwell makes it then Teixeira makes it.

And for me, if a guy like Tim Raines still can't get in, the whole system is flawed beyond repair as it is.

I don't believe a single thing I wrote, it was a response to an argument that made no sense.

As far as Ortiz, every other news media besides the NY ones have acknowledged the fact that Ortiz tested positive for an unknown something in one test from 2003. It is not known what he tested positive for, and it's accepted that many of the players from the "secret" 2003 tests got positives from then-legal supplements. This always was a weak argument for Ortiz being on the juice, and I don't know anyone who actually follows the game seriously that believes it.