This product would be another way for Topps to screw the collector - fill the product with assorted junk consisting of autograph cards featuring guys who've signed a bunch of stickers / maybe a handful of cards for $1-$3 per, maybe get a few nice parallels in the product and then a bunch of 'pie in the sky' redemptions that will never be fulfilled.
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Would You Pay $400 For a Pack of a Future Bowman Baseball Product?
- Thread starter Jaypers
- Start date
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P_Manning 18
New member
- Aug 7, 2008
- 6,121
- 0
Currently.... 22-1 In favor of No
Last I looked at Blowout it was 99-18 in favor of No.
Austin
Well-known member
22 No, 1 Yes, (the lone person voting Yes is Hive17)
Wow, i thought inception is a low end product.
Topps introduced sterling in 04 as an attempt at a high end prospect product. chrome is still king
BowmanChromeAddict
New member
Sterling might have made a run at a true high end product if it didn't take them until 2012 to get back to on-card autos. From 05 to 11 it was stickers and that never comes across as high end. If it had been on card all along it might just have transitioned to the premium over chrome. But Topps also likes to run the presses on these 'high end' products which just doesn't work. Needs to be some rarity in my opinion especially in these multiple auto per pack releases.
joey12508
Well-known member
wouldn't pay that, way to high for prospects or even stars or hall of famers. leaf best of baseball was worth it in my opinion for a much lower price.
Bill Menard
New member
- Aug 26, 2008
- 3,421
- 0
I think if Topps had some sort of timelines insert with the legends of the past paired with the rookie with nice patches, you might be able to get something started. I don't think the rookies could stand alone in this product, for many of the reasons already stated. Something along the lines of what UD did with Exquisite and Premiere, but with the Bowman name and some finish to the surface to keep it true to Bowman.
The thing is the appeal to Bowman is the auto RCs and nice color refractors. The product has never really been about game used stuff. I don't think it much matters to prospects and I also don't think beyond base set collectors there is much interest in any of the players that bust long term. What single card is still desirable from say 1996 Bowman? None. And since this product could not predict accurately who the stars be in future, there is simply too much risk in a high end insert of a guy who is likely to be a nobody in a couple of years, retired from the game. Perhaps even pairing him with a superstar from days gone by wouldn't help it much either. I don't how desirable a Ruth game used card would be to a collector if it has some other no namer on it 10 years from now. I mean, we all see how player collectors still want those inserts of their guy from the 90s so there is at least some history to support the idea of future value for some of the inserts of star players that are being produced today, but I'd say you have enough evidence to support that their is no value to inserts of prospects that went no where and to suggest collectors put up for a higher price point for higher quality cards that in 5 years are worth as much as inserts from the lower price point products (that being $0.00), just because it has a rare patch or auto/ patch combo with a low numbering doesn't really matter.
Now if they have Marty McFly's Sports History book with all the results of games through 2030 and can produce some nice inserts of only the future rookie stars, well then they most certainly should move forward with this product idea!
The thing is the appeal to Bowman is the auto RCs and nice color refractors. The product has never really been about game used stuff. I don't think it much matters to prospects and I also don't think beyond base set collectors there is much interest in any of the players that bust long term. What single card is still desirable from say 1996 Bowman? None. And since this product could not predict accurately who the stars be in future, there is simply too much risk in a high end insert of a guy who is likely to be a nobody in a couple of years, retired from the game. Perhaps even pairing him with a superstar from days gone by wouldn't help it much either. I don't how desirable a Ruth game used card would be to a collector if it has some other no namer on it 10 years from now. I mean, we all see how player collectors still want those inserts of their guy from the 90s so there is at least some history to support the idea of future value for some of the inserts of star players that are being produced today, but I'd say you have enough evidence to support that their is no value to inserts of prospects that went no where and to suggest collectors put up for a higher price point for higher quality cards that in 5 years are worth as much as inserts from the lower price point products (that being $0.00), just because it has a rare patch or auto/ patch combo with a low numbering doesn't really matter.
Now if they have Marty McFly's Sports History book with all the results of games through 2030 and can produce some nice inserts of only the future rookie stars, well then they most certainly should move forward with this product idea!
notjomommasclint
Active member
No I wouldn't.
Basketball and football top picks have a higher success rate. The nice thing about bowman is the depth of rookie cards. If it takes 3-5 years to see a player pan out that's a lot of money in boxes waiting.
I would suggest blending in a low number insert set. Watch the secondary market and box prices to see the short term action and long term retention of popularity and value.
Basketball and football top picks have a higher success rate. The nice thing about bowman is the depth of rookie cards. If it takes 3-5 years to see a player pan out that's a lot of money in boxes waiting.
I would suggest blending in a low number insert set. Watch the secondary market and box prices to see the short term action and long term retention of popularity and value.
Topnotchsy
Featured Contributor, The best players in history?
- Aug 7, 2008
- 9,475
- 253
If they borrowed many of the ideas from Exquisite I think it is doable but it would require really big named vets (especially for seasons where the RC crop is lackluster) large patches, really good looking cards with on-card sigs, and other rare game-used. If the last few years has shown us anything it is that the companies are not buying the high-profile game-used items with all the serious provenance (at least they won't make those claims...) if Topps purchased a few real high profile GU items and put them into cards as highly limited inserts (the current Musial auction would be a decent start) they could get this done. It would not be about the sheer number of autos in the pack and not about making the RC cards /5 either. The Exquisite model (RC patches /99, and a parallel to the player's jersey number) for the rookie cards would work great and if there was even another chance to pull say a Mathewson GU pants, Ruth GU where we knew the provenance etc. I think it is very doable. How does "Bowman Majestic" sound...
Austin
Well-known member
Exactly. Ugh, I hate those dual cards with a superstar paired with a prospect.
99% of the time, the prospect is a scrub.
I have a 2004 UD SP Prospects dual autograph of Roger Clemens and Thomas Diamond. I now hate this card because Diamond is a nobody and ruins the card.
There are so many other undesirable dual autographed cards like that:
Nomar Garciaparra/Matt Bush
Bob Feller/Justin Hoyman
Andre Dawson/Taylor Tankersley
Bob Gibson/Chris Lambert
Wade Boggs/Reid Brignac
Bill Mazeroski/Brian Bixler
Duke Snider/Blake DeWitt
Ken Griffey, Jr./BJ Szymanski
Dave Winfield/Zach Jackson
And so many more. Those cards make me cringe and I hope no company makes those cards again, because they almost always turn out to be garbage years later.
I don't thinks its a horrible idea. Pack breakdown would need to provide a reasonable return. Example for a 5 card pack.
2 - Base autos
1 - Refractor Auto
1 - Blue Refractor Auto
1 - Gold Refractor Auto
Would replace a base in some packs.
1 - Orange, Red or Superfractor Auto
Basically your getting half a case of Bowman without all the base or inserts.
2 - Base autos
1 - Refractor Auto
1 - Blue Refractor Auto
1 - Gold Refractor Auto
Would replace a base in some packs.
1 - Orange, Red or Superfractor Auto
Basically your getting half a case of Bowman without all the base or inserts.
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RStadlerASU22
Active member
- Jan 2, 2013
- 8,883
- 16
Although I see what you mean with the odds vs price , I think if buyers looked at it as $400 for 5 autos and realized that's $80 an auto it may not be appealing. Also because the odds would be shrinking the value if the cards would shrink as well IMO. Meaning I think with BC type products it's the long odds that help. Even if a card is /25 in both scenarios I think it holds better value if it does take a 1/2 case to pull it vs 1 pack, even if the overall cost is the same. Hope that made sense
Ryan
Maybe an auto only version of Bowman Draft.
For a $400 baseball set, it would have to contain:
1) a known checklist of prospects vetted by this board
2) each pack would have to have a strict visual QC process to eliminate chipped cards, bad autos, crappy mono-colored patches on cards #/10 or less, all the things we complain about
3) each pack would have to be built by hand to contain something like SRP value, or the best that can be foreseen
4) no redemptions, all autographs on-card. If you don't have a signed card in-hand, it doesn't make it into the set
5) preferably all 1st-year cards, but that's likely not possible (compared to all my other criteria, heh), so a small number of absolutely top-rung 2nd-year cards may be allowed to be the hits. A 2014 Puig from such a set would likely be OK, but no Machados, Strasburgs, Harpers, etc., unless they were fold-out, triple-patch, 1/1s.
6) Older prospects, veterans, HOFers might be allowed if there was something else of intrinsic value such as the Panini gemstones (or Pinnacle diamonds, for attribution), printing on gold, really choice jumbo patches, etc.
Basically, Jaypers would have to assemble all packs by hand, and the process would have to start during the winter and be ready for delivery around Labor Day. During the season, someone from Topps will have to fly out to wherever a hot new prospect is, hold a gun to his head, and have him sign freshly-printed cards and return with them in-hand.
Such a product would likely cost more than $400, but people who spend that much on a pack would go higher if the quality was there.
1) a known checklist of prospects vetted by this board
2) each pack would have to have a strict visual QC process to eliminate chipped cards, bad autos, crappy mono-colored patches on cards #/10 or less, all the things we complain about
3) each pack would have to be built by hand to contain something like SRP value, or the best that can be foreseen
4) no redemptions, all autographs on-card. If you don't have a signed card in-hand, it doesn't make it into the set
5) preferably all 1st-year cards, but that's likely not possible (compared to all my other criteria, heh), so a small number of absolutely top-rung 2nd-year cards may be allowed to be the hits. A 2014 Puig from such a set would likely be OK, but no Machados, Strasburgs, Harpers, etc., unless they were fold-out, triple-patch, 1/1s.
6) Older prospects, veterans, HOFers might be allowed if there was something else of intrinsic value such as the Panini gemstones (or Pinnacle diamonds, for attribution), printing on gold, really choice jumbo patches, etc.
Basically, Jaypers would have to assemble all packs by hand, and the process would have to start during the winter and be ready for delivery around Labor Day. During the season, someone from Topps will have to fly out to wherever a hot new prospect is, hold a gun to his head, and have him sign freshly-printed cards and return with them in-hand.
Such a product would likely cost more than $400, but people who spend that much on a pack would go higher if the quality was there.
sportscardtheory
Active member
A pretty resounding no. As many have stated, the instant impact of rookies in the NBA and NFL (and the NHL due to their rookie card rules) lead to people willing to pay those prices. Probably won't work with prospect-based baseball product.
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Just to play DA here:
People are already paying large sums of money for colored Chrome Autos of Prospects that are multiple years away.
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
This is true, however the difference is that they are paying large sums of money on specificlly selected colored chrome autos of prospects, not large sums of money per pack on a low percentage crap shoot.
