Your Beef with the Hobby or Why You Don't Care.

[jrinne]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

I prospect and collect so what does that make me? Just curious.

 

[Mozzie22]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

I prospect and collect so what does that make me? Just curious.

Bipolar.

 

[Juddy]

The overall lack of innovation and perceived value is my main beef.

 

[autocut]

The fact that the manufactures have done little to nothing to help ensure the integrity of their products and our hobby. Items are being counterfeited, back-doored, cut up, and faked with each new product release. I have not seen a single innovative idea from a company to help alleviate any of these issues, if anything, they are making it easier.

That's my beef as well. There are tons of ways to make it more difficult to fake patches. Problem is there isn't a whole lot of motivation on the companies part to fix it if they are selling out of product.

Why don't card company make a clear cover over the patches to prevent fakes? Something like Topps Finest peel off or something of that nature.

 

[miguelcabrera]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

I prospect and collect so what does that make me? Just curious.

Is there any card in your "collection" you wouldnt sell to make a decent sized profit?

 

[cgilmo]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

Such a jackassy statement.

News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are. Yeah, sure there are people who do that, but you can't just take a box and throw people in it.

People are complicated, and so are collecting habits. Many of us participate in about every side of the hobby you can think of.

 

[RL24]

The funny thing is, my major beef with the hobby is how people think they know how other people should collect. :lol:



It's a hobby, and some people like to make money off of their hobby... who cares? My grandma's hobby is sewing, and she's made countless thousands over the years sewing for people. My other grandma's hobby is making china plates and things of that nature, when I had my daughter she made the cutest little china baby shoe thing. And that lady has made a small fortune. She loves to go around to these little shows and sell her stuff, and see what other people are selling... she makes lots of money, but it's always been her hobby. Why does somebody care if somebody else is trying to make money off of baseball cards? I don't get that.



Myself, I've been pretty serious about collecting for close to 10 years now. I've gone through all kinds of phases. The best time I've had collecting, what I find that I enjoy more than anything else, is collecting Rickey Henderson jersey # cards. I understand that nobody else is into that, but that's OK. It's what makes ME happy. I loved the sets from Donruss, like Sportscasters. Many people hated that set, but I put together these:

They are all #24/xx, and it was hard to track them all down, but the fact that I've accomplished this makes ME happy. Everybody else complained about so many similar yet different cards to chase down, too many cards, too many sets, let's get rid of Donruss. Ryan's favorite company.


You should just enjoy collecting for the reasons you enjoy collecting, and let other people enjoy collecting for the reasons they enjoy collecting. There's no reason to say that somebody else isn't even a collector just because they enjoy a different aspect of the hobby than you do.

 

[leatherman]

I prospect and collect so what does that make me? Just curious.

Poor.

 

[RL24]

I think the two biggest areas that people love to complain about are easily fixable, but the companies don't care about what we want.

#1) Tamper proof patch cards. They would be so incredibly easy to do! You wouldn't have to take pictures of every card and maintain a database of the cards you have produced. All you would have to do is do what Topps did with 2002 Gold Label jersey cards.

There is a sheet of plastic over the front of the jersey. On these there is also one on the back, so you can see the jersey from either side of the card, but that isn't necessary. They could have put one of these sheets over the 2005 Absolute Jumbo jersey set and nobody would have the problem they have today. No matter how good the card looks, how real, you have to question it's authenticity. And if you purchase it, in the back of your mind you will always wonder if it's real or fake. If there was a sheet of plastic over the card, you would have to really jack the card up to get to the patch.

It's not rocket science, they did it 8 years ago. They don't want to spend the extra .015 cents it would cost for each card. They don't have to, because collectors have shown them time and time again... give us anything and we'll buy it.



#2) Sticker autos. I used to think there was really no difference, but as I grow older and my tastes grow finer, I see where people are coming from. The shiny stickers are terrible. There are a thousand different things they could do to have nice looking autos without having on-card autos. Here are some fine examples:

I'm a big fan of checkmates autos. I wouldn't purchase this one because of Eli's auto. Whoever was in charge of this sucked. But it's a 2 for 1, because Eli's auto, while not signed on an awesome scrap of fake check, is still a step up from a shiny sticker. Like this card:

Why does Topps put more effort into football cards? If this was a baseball card, well... we've never heard of a patch auto superfractor first of all, but they would have just slapped a sticker on a baseball super. Not take the effort to make a window like that so you could have a nice trapped and not shiny auto.

Even clear stickers just slapped on are better than the shiny stickers, especially in a scan. Sometimes it's hard to tell if it's a clear sticker or an oncard auto. Until you get it in hand of course. But even then, the clear looks much nicer than the shiny.

It's been making me sad lately. How could they take this card, with so much potential, and slap a shiny sticker onto it?

At least it's straight, the first 206 auto that showed up on ebay was far worse with a crooked shiny sticker.



This one is amazing, they got matching shiny stickers, but... the shiny stickers just kills it for me.

And if you look at CC's auto, the shiny sticker didn't like the ink, not the way that these do:

So in conclusion, I'm sorry to Raymond for arguing with him apx 5 years ago. I thought stickers autos weren't that bad, and I still think clear stickers are decent, but have since acquired a dislike of shiny stickers. And most of the autos in my collection are just that, shiny sticker autos. :|

 

[DaveH]

good post RL24^

 

[Mozzie22]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

Such a jackassy statement.

News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are. Yeah, sure there are people who do that, but you can't just take a box and throw people in it.

People are complicated, and so are collecting habits. Many of us participate in about every side of the hobby you can think of.

First and foremost, I can put whomever I want into a box. You said, “News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are” Wrong, everyone here that posts about their prospecting habits is exactly what I think they are, prospectors. Take a few minutes and let that set in. Got it? Let’s move on.

Secondly, you just posted this in another thread and essentially threatened to banish him:

“blatantly calling someone niave (sp) is a big insult”

You then insult me by call me a *******? Oh, I mean you said my statement was Jackassy? Did I get that right, Jackassy?


You wonder and whine why people ask about access to sites like TheBench and then you disagree with someone’s opinion about something they dislike about the hobby in a thread titled- Your Beef with the Hobby or Why You Don't Care.

You’re a joke.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

I don't care if someone pays a lot of money for a card as long as they *completely* understand what they're getting and understand the risks and rewards involved. Its tough to assess someone else's knowledge and aversion to risk, but with many purchases one definitely has to wonder.

On top of the integrity issue, which is non-existent, people's issue with "overpaying" for a card is comical. A card is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it. That's what determines the value of a card (not a price guide or past auction sales). That's why flips are possible. So, everytime I see a post where someone ask if they overpaid for someone, it brings a quick chuckle. Everything is always based on supply, demand, and super collectors who will pay whatever to fill those holes in their collection.

 

[packbusta]

So in conclusion, I'm sorry to Raymond for arguing with him apx 5 years ago. I thought stickers autos weren't that bad, and I still think clear stickers are decent, but have since acquired a dislike of shiny stickers. And most of the autos in my collection are just that, shiny sticker autos. :|

Going off on a tangent here... Raymond may be THE greatest collector I've ever "known." He and George Calfas are the two people I've always enjoyed in the hobby and the digitalsphere. That is all.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

Such a jackassy statement.

News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are. Yeah, sure there are people who do that, but you can't just take a box and throw people in it.

People are complicated, and so are collecting habits. Many of us participate in about every side of the hobby you can think of.

Absolutely there are plenty of people in the box - but there's plenty of people outside the box too. However real collectors expect the people who collect and sell to walk a fine line between their collecting interests and selling interests, but with ebay and the internet many sellers don't. Besides there are plenty of people who sell and claim to collect but don't - ("I'm one of you, so listen to me" - nope).

Whenever I think of this box discussion I think of *good* LCS owners before ebay. The best LCS owners always seemed to be able to intentionally separate their collecting interests (assuming they were collectors themselves - and they usually were) and their business interests for their customers. Good LCS owners wouldn't automatically steer their customers in a way that brought them the most money but rather advised their customers in a way that grew the collector, hobby and their store. These LCS owners weren't anonomyous, you knew who they were, saw them and spoke with them every week; you understood their primary interests and motivations with respect to the hobby.

Its almost completely different on the internet and Ebay, there are plenty of people (a vast majority?) whose primary concern is self interest and almost everyone is anonomyous. I generally don't take advice from anonomyous sellers because I expect their primary motivation is to make a profit... which isn't my motivation.

Many collectors seem to have to turn to selling because the hobby is too complex with too many cards to chase and buy which is too bad. These people aren't as well equipped to deal with how to balance selling and collecting as the professional LCS owners used to in front of their customers. If you want to be a good seller for the hobby, you need to accept extra responsibility.

Edit: If you can't put all the people in same box, then why is there a single forum for both buyers and sellers?

 

[cgilmo]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

Such a jackassy statement.

News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are. Yeah, sure there are people who do that, but you can't just take a box and throw people in it.

People are complicated, and so are collecting habits. Many of us participate in about every side of the hobby you can think of.

First and foremost, I can put whomever I want into a box. You said, “News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are” Wrong, everyone here that posts about their prospecting habits is exactly what I think they are, prospectors. Take a few minutes and let that set in. Got it? Let’s move on.

Secondly, you just posted this in another thread and essentially threatened to banish him:

“blatantly calling someone niave (sp) is a big insult”

You then insult me by call me a *******? Oh, I mean you said my statement was Jackassy? Did I get that right, Jackassy?


You wonder and whine why people ask about access to sites like TheBench and then you disagree with someone’s opinion about something they dislike about the hobby in a thread titled- Your Beef with the Hobby or Why You Don't Care.

You’re a joke.

I'm a joke? I don't run around insulting people because of what they chose to do with their time, hobby, and money.

That sir, is a joke.

I have the ability to disagree just like you do, and I disagree with EVERYTHING you have said in this thread. Not only do I disagree, I take offense to it.

Also, I never wined about people asking about access to the bench. The Bench is a quality site, and anyone who wants to check it out should. That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather users spent 100% of their hobby message board time here.

 

[bozemanbreaker]

I hate how the hobby makes us turn on one another ::facepalm::

 

[Brewer Andy]

As I kid I certainly hoped my cards with be worth money someday but at the same time I never thought I'd use Box and ROI in the same sentence either. To me, a box isn't an "investment". That sounds crazy to me. But then again, without those of you who are "sellers", who would I buy from? So we're all needed to keep this thing going. I do wish there were more "veteran" releases and less prospect based releases but I wouldn't go so far as to say that its something "wrong" with the hobby. I do wish packs were cheaper so the hobby was more accessable and I do wish trading was more prevelant but there are prices to pay for the things we like. The bottom line for me is if you can't find a niche that you enjoy you either aren't looking hard enough or you're on the wrong message board to begin with. The only gripe I could possibly think of are the scam artists, but they're everywhere in life. If you feel a real need to get lots of concerns off your chest it might be time to start looking for a new hobby that actually brings you joy

 

[Mozzie22]

[quote="Mozzie22":3hawbkqk]Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

agian, what do you care what other people do with their time and money?

I don’t care what people do with their time and money so long as they don’t come on a message board “for collectors by collectors” and discuss at length their prospecting hits and misses. If someone wants to blow their money on cases with the intention of flipping that is their right to do so but they better never confuse themselves with real collectors…remember those, the ones that do it because they love the thrill and not the potential.

If you prospect you are not a “collector,” you see it as a business not a hobby.

Such a jackassy statement.

News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are. Yeah, sure there are people who do that, but you can't just take a box and throw people in it.

People are complicated, and so are collecting habits. Many of us participate in about every side of the hobby you can think of.

First and foremost, I can put whomever I want into a box. You said, “News flash, not everyone who prospects here and there or rips and lists is what you claim they are” Wrong, everyone here that posts about their prospecting habits is exactly what I think they are, prospectors. Take a few minutes and let that set in. Got it? Let’s move on.

Secondly, you just posted this in another thread and essentially threatened to banish him:

“blatantly calling someone niave (sp) is a big insult”

You then insult me by call me a *******? Oh, I mean you said my statement was Jackassy? Did I get that right, Jackassy?


You wonder and whine why people ask about access to sites like TheBench and then you disagree with someone’s opinion about something they dislike about the hobby in a thread titled- Your Beef with the Hobby or Why You Don't Care.

You’re a joke.

I'm a joke? I don't run around insulting people because of what they chose to do with their time, hobby, and money.

That sir, is a joke.

I have the ability to disagree just like you do, and I disagree with EVERYTHING you have said in this thread. Not only do I disagree, I take offense to it.

Also, I never wined about people asking about access to the bench. The Bench is a quality site, and anyone who wants to check it out should. That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather users spent 100% of their hobby message board time here.[/quote:3hawbkqk]

Yes, you are a joke. I never insulted anyone in this thread. Show me where I insulted anyone. Just because you take offense to something I said doesn’t mean I an insult was thrown. An insult is calling someone a ******* and the fact you took offense and disagree with EVERYTHING I said is reassuring because it means my compass still points North in the HOBBY that is baseball card COLLECTING.

The reason you took offense to it is because you are part of the problem. We see the same problem in the autograph memorabilia side; people wonder why stars charge $300.00 for an autograph, well the fact is they have to charge that so parasites, I mean prospectors, don't flip them for a quick buck because they can't turn a profit.

 

[rico08]

Prospecting. It seems there are more prospectors today than there are legitimate collectors. I say legitimate because that is precisely what prospectors are not. If you buy cards with the explicit intention to flip them, then you are no longer in it for the same reasons that kids have gotten into it for the last hundred years.

For those that have been collecting for decades the most enjoyable posts for us on boards like this are the ones where a set collector finishes off the last 5 cards he needed for his 1986 Topps set, or the Dale Sveum collector who picked up that card he's been after for 20 years. That is what this hobby was truly about.

Prospecting... my beef.

Your beef is with the people who actually partake in it, or how they define the hobby?

The rookie card is and has always been the center of sports cards. The internet gives everyone the opportunity to buy and sell as they see fit. Why should you let that ruin collecting for you?

People should only buy a certain player or set and when they open packs, boxes, or cases, should keep every single card. Forever. That's stupid.

 

[brouthercard]

I like getting a six-dollar burger at Carl's jr. after a big card show.