Your HOF requirements

[MrMet]

Everyone always says 500hr or 3000 hits is almost a guarantee for the Hall, but what do YOU (personally, not what others say or think) think should be required for someone to get into the Hall?
Does longevity count, because the longer you play, the better possibility you have for more HRs, etc.
Hit over .300, for a career, or a set number of seasons? Maybe over .300 for a career and over .300 for more than half of your seasons played?
Avg of 20 HRs a season for a power hitter? At least 300HR for a career?
What about a defensive whiz without the hitting stats?

These are just talking points, id love to hear what everyone thinks....

 

[ThoseBackPages]

i am old and believe in the eye-ball test. Did the player dominate the time period when they played? Did you check box scores to see how they did the next morning? i piss on all those newfangled stat categories.

 

[homerun28aa]

There's an element of stats but an element of the human factor. 500HR/3,000 hits/.320 BA all that stuff is a great place to start but for others did he dominate his era like was he really a standout? What was his postseason play like? Was he a class-act? If not, it shouldn't really knock him but if he was and he has the numbers all the better. Really that kind of stuff but with numbers yeah 500HR you stand a great chance, 3,000 hits you stand a great chance. Multiple MVP nominations at least, but if you're in one of those clubs it's likely you would already have the MVP nominations.

 

[maxe0213]

My requirements. If I look at the player and immediately think yeah he was the best of the best and shouldl be in the HOF then he should be in. If I have to think about it or find stats to justify him getting in, he doesn't deserve it.

 

[michaelstepper]

i am old and believe in the eye-ball test. Did the player dominate the time period when they played? Did you check box scores to see how they did the next morning? i piss on all those newfangled stat categories.

This,
They don't have to year end rewards every year but would you consistently put them in the top 5-10 players in the league on a 15-20 year stretch? Top 3 for a 10 year stretch?
The games changed, the numbers will change IMHO. 3000 hits is still a no doubt hof caliber number. 500hr? Not so much. 300wins? Most likely not going to happen again
I think if you win 225 games in today's age.. your golden.
Avg .300 with 450HR a load of walks, RBI and not strikeout 200 times a season, be tops or near the top of the league year after year... good enough for me

 

[gmsieb]

The player had to be great for a long time. Above or with the best of his time.

I think those days are over though.

Still figuring out my complete ped stance. A few are in, so why not the rest? Becoming a bigger part of the stance.

 

[homerun28aa]

To add to what I said this is a metric that one of my good friends goes by because it's very much telling about what others have been saying (was this guy the cream of the crop when he played). Look the number of all-star game appearances. If the guy was in the league 18 years and made 15 all-star games he is a HOFer

 

[gt2590]

i am old and believe in the eye-ball test. Did the player dominate the time period when they played? Did you check box scores to see how they did the next morning? i piss on all those newfangled stat categories.

I'm with E on this one.

I can tell you the day he retires if he should be in or not. It's an easy Yes or No question to me, not stats based.

And I have no problem with the "Roiders" getting in, but I'm not upset too much if they never get in either...

 

[WCTYSON]

i am old and believe in the eye-ball test. Did the player dominate the time period when they played? Did you check box scores to see how they did the next morning? i piss on all those newfangled stat categories.

To add to what I said this is a metric that one of my good friends goes by because it's very much telling about what others have been saying (was this guy the cream of the crop when he played). Look the number of all-star game appearances. If the guy was in the league 18 years and made 15 all-star games he is a HOFer

All-Star games played and eyeball test, piss on that. :benson:

 

[homerun28aa]

All-Star games played and eyeball test, piss on that. :benson:

What's your metric? The All-Star games played in statistic pretty much encompasses all the others - if the guy hit a lot of HRs = lot of all-star games if the guy had a lot of hits = lot of all-star games. Not sure what the problem with that is.

 

[hairyharold]

be named MIKE PIAZZA

but seriously...players that were considered DOMINANT or THE BEST at their given position for the majority of their career

 

[Y4NK335]

All-Star games played and eyeball test, piss on that. :benson:

While I understand your point pertaining to the ASG, if you look at the players with the most seasons on an all-star roster, you'd have to scroll all the way down the #45 to find the first guy (Bill Freehan) that is not 1) a HOF, 2) a PED user but HOF caliber (Bonds, Arod, Clemens, etc.), 3) a guy not yet eligible but a lock (Rivera, Jeter, Griffey), 4) Mike Piazza, who had 69.9% this year and will get in.

Out of the top 100 on the list, an extremely high % are HOFers. Obviously you'll have your outliers, but I undersand looking at ASG's to help determine if a player is a HOFer. Would it be my only indicator? Heck no.

 

[rsmath]

Look the number of all-star game appearances. If the guy was in the league 18 years and made 15 all-star games he is a HOFer

I disagree. ASG is a popularity thing because of fans vote who they recognize or for those on the teams they recognize, not who deserves it for their play on the field (see Jeter).

to me, it's considering the length of career (I don't want a HOF who only had a five year period of domination unless they died way too soon on their way to being an obvious HOF) and if they had a decade or more, then it becomes were they they among most desired player at their position for their career?

Ticks me off Piazza didn't make it, because he had a long career and if you wanted a catcher during his career years, he and Pudge Rodriguez were by far the most desired at the catcher position. He and Pudge are definite HOF's, IMHO.

 

[maxe0213]

I disagree. ASG is a popularity thing because of fans vote who they recognize or for those on the teams they recognize, not who deserves it for their play on the field (see Jeter).

to me, it's considering the length of career (I don't want a HOF who only had a five year period of domination unless they died way too soon on their way to being an obvious HOF) and if they had a decade or more, then it becomes were they they among most desired player at their position for their career?

Ticks me off Piazza didn't make it, because he had a long career and if you wanted a catcher during his career years, he and Pudge Rodriguez were by far the most desired at the catcher position. He and Pudge are definite HOF's, IMHO.

It may be a popularity contest for ASG's but do you ever see average or even just okay/good players make 15+ all star games? No. Even if its popularity, you are still likely a great player to make 15 ASG's.

 

[homerun28aa]

I disagree. ASG is a popularity thing because of fans vote who they recognize or for those on the teams they recognize, not who deserves it for their play on the field (see Jeter).

to me, it's considering the length of career (I don't want a HOF who only had a five year period of domination unless they died way too soon on their way to being an obvious HOF) and if they had a decade or more, then it becomes were they they among most desired player at their position for their career?

Ticks me off Piazza didn't make it, because he had a long career and if you wanted a catcher during his career years, he and Pudge Rodriguez were by far the most desired at the catcher position. He and Pudge are definite HOF's, IMHO.

Some say Jeter may be the first unanimous first ballot HOFer in history...so I'm not sure someone like Jeter is a good counter argument. It is partially popularity, but Jeter is a first ballot HOFer and I don't like the guy at all.

Piazza is a HOFer. Period end of story. The fact that he isn't in yet is complete and utter BS. Biggio got in this year and Piazza was twice the hitter he was.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

And piss on war, if you have to look deep into someones numbers they are not a hofer period! I will take eyeball test over war all day.

 

[MrMet]

Wow, not what I expected, lotta eyeball guys here...where are the stat heads?

 

[Gonzaleznut]

i am old and believe in the eye-ball test. Did the player dominate the time period when they played? Did you check box scores to see how they did the next morning? i piss on all those newfangled stat categories.

This exactly. WAR is the dumbest thing. To me WAR is something two countries do to one another or a stupid card game. Not a baseball stat.

 

[mrmopar]

ASG are fan awards. You assume it will go to the best players, but fans are human and humans are flawed. Favorites are selected over better players. When a team hosted the game, most players from that team tended to make the squads too.

I'll use Steve Garvey as a good example. he was always considered one of the better player in his league and all of baseball in the late mid 70s-mid 80s. He was almost a lock to hit .300 and 6 times a 200 hit season. He was a standard for fielding as a 1B. he was good enough AND played long enough to rack up some pretty decent numbers, but no major milestone stats. Toss in a few personal scandals and pretty soon he was not even considered one of the best any longer.

Here is an eyeball measure for some of you older guys to consider. I was just going through a huge stack of 70s magazines and the same guys were featured all the time…Garvey, Rose, Bench, Ryan, Brett, Munson, Jackson, etc. Those were the best players of their time. Steroids have definitely changed how we look at stats and maybe some of the older players will get a 2nd look.

I find it interesting that Biggio gets in first and Bagwell is still waiting, when clearly he was THE GUY on the Astros and Biggio was always in his shadows. i will admit that the whole steroid scandal bored me, so i didn't follow closely. Was Bagwell one of the confirmed users? He was a HOF lock in the same manner as Thomas for a long time...

 

[rsmath]

It may be a popularity contest for ASG's but do you ever see average or even just okay/good players make 15+ all star games? No. Even if its popularity, you are still likely a great player to make 15 ASG's.

Since IMHO the true All-Stars are the reserves/pitchers that are added to the team by their peers, how many of the 14 ASG's Jeter was in did he get there by being a reserve? I see at least five (not counted among the 14) where he didn't make an ASG, meaning no fan vote or his peers put him on the team.