109 Bowman Blue Wave Redemption Packs - Screwed

[masonphillip]

Who cares if Jim is in it for profit? This doesn't sound like a run of bad luck. If the Topps employees are backdooring the auto packs, it not only affects people like Jim who bust a lot of product but also the guy that sends in his 2 boxes worth of wrappers hoping for an auto only to never know he never even had a chance to pull a "randomly inserted" auto.

I can't agree with this more, Jim's motive in all this is irrelevant, if he got the shaft due either to an error by Topps, or outright fraud then it needs to be made right.

 

[bballcardkid]

I don't understand why Topps would have wanted to do this promotion anyway. Logistically, it would have to be a nightmare sorting through stacks and stacks of wrappers, allocating a handful of packs out of 10,000 available to each induvidual, then handling all of the backlash from their own self inflicted actions by setting their deadline (all of the emails, multiple phone calls from those that submitted packs), then shipping out all of the packs...all for nothing. As if the wasted man hours spent on a blown wrapper redemption program, hours which could have been allocated to address a host of the companies other problems, isn't enough, Topps continues to drag it's name in the mud with their handling of the situation. Good intentions but poor execution, lot's of cash wasted on their part whose tab will be picked up by the average collector through other products, lots of disappointed collectors, and another reason for people to complain was the result of this promotion.

 

[bcubs]

Another example of manufacturers sketchy behavior. Anyone who is surprised this kind of thing happens should get checked for head trauma. They were backdoored, funneled to specific submitters, or outright stolen by Topps employees. It isn't the first time and by no means will it be the last.

 

[gmsieb]

14 packs today. 1 auto, 4 reds. I'm very happy to rcv my correct amount, but we seem to be getting killed on the autos. Maybe they are giving better auto odds to the people they are shorting packs, only thing that may make sense.

 

[Ian Stewart]

To everybody saying he's greedy: shut up.

Some people factor in the prices that these packs either garner on eBay, or prospective values when deciding to bust a case. Obviously, Jim bought his 3,042 cases well before the announcement was made, but still.

If Topps CLEARLY states that you get these packs before they sell out or ship them all out, this added incentive is more than a "free bonus". People buy empty wrappers in hopes of getting them and, sure, that's probably not the best idea since the early bird gets the worm here. However, Jim got cheated out of something he was promised by Topps. He has every right to be upset.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

To be fair, the odds were not posted. And, while the odds worked exactly for the Reds and not for the autographs these were never guaranteed to be an autograph every 5.3 packs. Sure, the odds implied it, but not a guarantee. Is it shady? Who knows until we know the why of it all. Topps CSRs could be grabbing autograph packs at random, or with preferential treatment. Random is fine, preferential is shady.

Are they back-dooring packs? Who knows, it certainly wouldn't be the first back-doored problem in this hobby and won't be the last.

Sure, it sucks that the odds didn't work out and that the odds implied Jim was shorted 16 autos. Well, it more than sucks, a pretty hefty kick in the junk...but I honestly don't think it's something Topps has to "right."

 

[nyc3]

Odds really mean nothing, if you buy 100 boxes if you dont get the correct amount of refractors they where just in other boxes. I am not sure what the problem is here. In no way do the odds say if you open 100 packs you will get x amount of autos and y amount of reds, the good cards (which are still figured in the odds) went else where.

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

I just got 46 more packs today. 2 autos. 14 Red Wave. Once again the Red Wave fall right on the odds and once again I'm shorted 6 autos. Completely different shipment, same issue. So if I keep getting screwed, either someone is going to make out awesome or these auto packs are disappearing the wrong way. A good friend will be getting 425 packs so I'll be interested to see how his breakdown. That's over 4% of the total. That's not statistically insignificant.

 

[cmixer]

i find this VERY interesting, not "bad luck," or a "poor sport."
Getting shorted 2 autos - is bad luck, getting 1/5th what is expected is shady.

 

[A_Pharis]

Guys.

Stated odds mean that the number of auto packs over the entire run is of a certain ratio. If you receive 6 packs, there IS NO GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL GET AN AUTO. All 1:5.3 means is that in the course of the ENTIRE RUN that the autos fall in one pack for every 5.3 packs WITHOUT an auto.

Learn the difference between odds and guaranteed amounts per quanitity.
Also, there is no evidence of items being backdoored or passed on with favoritism. It just means the opportunity is there. Hell, EVERYONE here has the opportunity to kill someone.. that doesn't mean if a person winds up dead that it was one of us that did it.

 

[A_Pharis]

I just got 46 more packs today. 2 autos. 14 Red Wave. Once again the Red Wave fall right on the odds and once again I'm shorted 6 autos. Completely different shipment, same issue. So if I keep getting screwed, either someone is going to make out awesome or these auto packs are disappearing the wrong way. A good friend will be getting 425 packs so I'll be interested to see how his breakdown. That's over 4% of the total. That's not statistically insignificant.

Technically, he could get 0 autos and the program could still fall well within the odds if there is one auto pack for every 5.3 non auto packs over the entire run. That's how odds work. If poor collation is there, then it's more likely idiocy than conspiracy.

Edit: Apparently this was already explained. I jumped on it as soon as I saw the number of people grabbing pitchforks. I don't know how many other ways that odds can be explained.

Edit 2: Dear God. After reading back some of these posts, I hope to high Heaven that I never get falsely accused of committing a crime and end up with you people on the jury.

 

[aarne13]

Have there been any big breaks that have scored higher than normal autos? You would figure that with poor collation there would be some killer breaks and many poor ones. I have a feeling that the autos are being backdoored/stolen or passed along to buddies. How else would you explain how they are being collated? If they are done by hand the suggested odds would come close.

 

[A_Pharis]

Have there been any big breaks that have scored higher than normal autos? You would figure that with poor collation there would be some killer breaks and many poor ones. I have a feeling that the autos are being backdoored/stolen or passed along to buddies. How else would you explain how they are being collated? If they are done by hand the suggested odds would come close.

Or people getting autos at a better than average ratio don't post on a mainstream board?

Edi:

<FCBer opens packs and gets better than average # of autos> "Hahah oh, yeah, man! I just SCORED! Off to eBay! THANKS TOPPS!"
<FCBer opens packs and gets less than average # of autos> "Man, Topps is obviously backdooring them. THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLINATION!"

 

[MallCopKJ]

I'll take any Xander Bogaerts you don't want off your hands.

 

[sunojorel]

I just got 46 more packs today. 2 autos. 14 Red Wave. Once again the Red Wave fall right on the odds and once again I'm shorted 6 autos. Completely different shipment, same issue. So if I keep getting screwed, either someone is going to make out awesome or these auto packs are disappearing the wrong way. A good friend will be getting 425 packs so I'll be interested to see how his breakdown. That's over 4% of the total. That's not statistically insignificant.

This unfortunately is not all that different than the shenanigans with the 2010 Bowman Chrome redemption. If these were done the same way and boxes were labeled as auto's and non it would definitely lead me to assume very much so that they are being backdoor-ed. At time of the initial release of the 2010 wrapper redemption there was a fellow in New Jersey on Ebay who had scores of auto's listed, and not only that he must have had over 40-50 black auto's listed on ebay.
Again all of these were listed within 1 week of Topps's start of mailing out to customers the packs.

Jim and I have discussed at length the inconsistencies of that program that year he broke over 20 cases and I broke about 3 dozen of them , and neither of us (Both PA residents) received anything close to what statistically should have come out of the packs. I feel it is entirely shady and do feel for someone lkike Jim getting the shorted again.

To me knowing what I do having grown up in NY from past experiences (IE: in the 90's being offered entire atomic refractor sets at shows before release, multiple Jordan refractors before release, among many many other instances), I already know first hand of backdoored cards etc, but honestly hoped and thought that it was better controlled now, but seeing what happened in 2010 and combining that with the fact that the packs are labeled from the boxes they come in leaves it VERY VERY hard to trust the Topps methodology, and the employees within. .....All it takes is one bad egg within the distribution center.....

 

[AMAZIN HOF COLLECTOR]

I am sure there is some "collector" who went 10 for 10 on autos.
The old "across the entire production line..."

 

[matfanofold]

I agree with the majority here that seem to think that counting your chickens in a otherwise free basket of random (read: not stated odds) merchandise, the kind that has no gaurentee if and when you will even get anything at all (*limited bonus) seems a bit fruitless. Having said that, if I were in line for 109 packs, actually got them, then only got like 1/5'th of the 'hits' I were expecting, I would be upset. At Topps? Perhaps not, but surely disappointed in my *bonus haul...

 

[bballcardkid]

Out of all the Wrapper threads created lately, I've only seen one person mention the likely possibility that not all Blue Wave Autos were packed out. I doubt that the true distributed print run is exactly 50 cards per subject, so the 1:5xxx autos per pack is unrealistic.

 

[CubsfanP]

They need electronic redemptions to solve this. First 10,000 to enter code get packs.

 

[prospectorgems]

They need electronic redemptions to solve this. First 10,000 to enter code get packs.

That's actually a really smart idea. As long as Topps has their web page up to support the amount of traffic when the site goes live. I could see it crashing or not going live on a certain date because they are never prepared for it.