Cabrera AL MVP over Trout

[bigpapiMA32]

http://bbwaa.com/12-al-mvp/


Also, I have no idea who Sheldon Ocker is, but I'd love to hear his reasoning behind putting Trout 3rd.

 

[HPC]

http://bbwaa.com/12-al-mvp/


Also, I have no idea who Sheldon Ocker is, but I'd love to hear his reasoning behind putting Trout 3rd.

You just figured out his reasoning...

 

[bigpapiMA32]

Also, pretty interesting that Verlander got more than twice as many points as Price.

 

[George_Calfas]

So the winner of the AL MVP and CY Young were NOT the leader in WAR..........thank you BBWA for not voting with bad math.

Miggy is well deserving!!!

 

[gogosox40]

So the winner of the AL MVP and CY Young were NOT the leader in WAR..........thank you BBWA for not voting with bad math.

Miggy is well deserving!!!

I totally agree George. Winning the triple crown is a major feat and deserving of the MVP. Not only bad math but three different types to figure out.

 

[notjomommasclint]

I'm surprised it was that close. Trouts season was amazing. Cabreras season was amazing plus one for the all time books. In 40 years we will be talking bout miggy as the last triple crown winner..

Congrats to both!! I look forward to watching miggy stalk and break inot some all time rarified air and trout becoming a must watch player!

 

[Brett Keith]

Winning the Triple Crown is cool, but what about those three stats make them more important? It's historic significance was established when we had a lesser understanding of stats and what they mean. How is Trout's season less historic in terms of numbers, even traditional numbers? Miggy led in AVG, HR and RBI. Trout led in SB and Runs, and finished a mere 4 points behind Cabrera for the batting title, and chipped in 30 HR's. That's not taking defense into consideration.

 

[alwayson22]

.325-30-45 had never been done before Trout achieved those numbers. Factor in his defensive prowess and he was the best player in baseball in 2012.

 

[sheetskout]

I would have been disappointed if Cabrera hadn't won. This was the right call.

 

[darkman]

Cabrera's season was historic.. Congrats

 

[jbmm161]

Do you think Trout could be a triple crown winner in the future? Sure seems like he could to me, drop him to third in the order with Pujols as protection.

I think Cabrera was a lock as his team was playoff bound. Had the Angels made the wildcard no question this would be Trouts award to lose.

I can only imagine the damage Hamilton would have done had he not slumped 2 months and went in the tank the last week of the year.

Overall this was pretty historic year triple crown, 4 HR game, no hitters, 2 international stars, and 2 superstar rookies. I think we will look back on 2012 as one of the best baseball seasons of all time.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

In 20 years, Cabrera over Trout will be laughed at.

So if Granderson hit two more homers, quite a few folks would have a different opinion based upon their stated argument I've heard on ESPN, MLB Network, etc. the past few days - which is Cabrera should be MVP because he won the Triple Crown (I haven't specifically read any of the voters made this argument but the talking heads and the BBWAA typically think along the same lines so it is reasonable to assume many of them came to the same conclusion). That is beyond illogical. Nothing about Cabrera's contributions would change - just the production of a player on another team.

The vote essentially went for the story and the narrative and not which player contributed to most to his team in terms of wins (i.e. value). And the argument that Cabrera is more valuable because his team went to the playoffs is garbage and reflects a simpleton's view. The Tigers had the 7th most wins in the AL while playing in the weakest division in baseball. The Angels won more games than the Tigers and had the best record in baseball from the point Trout was recalled. So again, that is rewarding Cabrera for the production of other players and teams - in this case the fact that the rest of the division stunk.

It is a shame that the last people close to the sport still shouting that the Earth is flat - the sportswriters - have so much influence on how the game is consumed. Their words and opinions are still the lens in which so many fans view the game yet almost all the front offices left this thinking behind several years ago. If every front office was given the choice between having a player in 2013 put up an identical season to Trout's 2012 vs Cabrera's 2012, the vast majority would go with Trout. Because wins = value.

 

[craftysouthpaw]

Cabrera's season was historic.. Congrats

So was Trout's. Arguably more so. You can put together several arbitrary statistical plateaus that he achieved that have been accomplished much less often than a Triple Crown.

I am happy for Cabrera as I feel he has been extremely underrated his entire career and he is finally getting his due. But he wasn't more valuable than Trout.

 

[notjomommasclint]

So was Trout's. Arguably more so. You can put together several arbitrary statistical plateaus that he achieved that have been accomplished much less often than a Triple Crown.

I am happy for Cabrera as I feel he has been extremely underrated his entire career and he is finally getting his due. But he wasn't more valuable than Trout.

The people who vote think so..

 

[George_Calfas]

So was Trout's. Arguably more so. You can put together several arbitrary statistical plateaus that he achieved that have been accomplished much less often than a Triple Crown.

I am happy for Cabrera as I feel he has been extremely underrated his entire career and he is finally getting his due. But he wasn't more valuable than Trout.

Based on what, WAR?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

The vote essentially went for the story and the narrative and not which player contributed to most to his team in terms of wins (i.e. value).

As you have pointed out, this is what you get when you have writers voting. Story and narrative win.

Some of us fans happen to like it that way. You can use WAR if you want to. No need to vote then, right? No need to watch the games even.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

The vote essentially went for the story and the narrative and not which player contributed to most to his team in terms of wins (i.e. value).

As far as I know, the ultimate goal of every team at the start of the season is to win the World Series. To do that, you first have to get to the playoffs. The players that help the most get a team to that goal carry more value. Take away Cabrera and I think most would agree that the Tigers likely don't get to where they were. Take away Trout, and you still have an Angels team not making the playoffs. A player that helps push his team over the edge into the playoffs carries more weight and value than a player who gets more wins for a team that didn't qualify for the playoffs.

And seriously, if you need to insult people and call them names in your argument, you may as well just admit your argument doesn't hold water.

 

[notjomommasclint]

It's safe to say since the tigers played in a XXXX division that the w.a.r is inaccurate since beating the royals without miggy is completely possible. Drop teams with under .550 winning percentage from the figures. Then lets take back all of trouts defensive plays that saved runs where the runs scored would not equal or tie that game. Then lets not forget that saving runs is more common in the outfield. Since the stat is figured soley on guessing of a player is going to score. Trout attributed 10 more runs this year than miggy according to war.. But hit 32 point less with runners in scoring position. Trout finished behind miggy in avg, hr, RBI (duh) barisp, h, 2b, tb, slugging, ops, bb/k, xbh, production%, and positions switched.

Miggy deserved the MVP and the writers got it right!

 

[homerun28aa]

In 20 years, Cabrera over Trout will be laughed at.

So if Granderson hit two more homers, quite a few folks would have a different opinion based upon their stated argument I've heard on ESPN, MLB Network, etc. the past few days - which is Cabrera should be MVP because he won the Triple Crown (I haven't specifically read any of the voters made this argument but the talking heads and the BBWAA typically think along the same lines so it is reasonable to assume many of them came to the same conclusion). That is beyond illogical. Nothing about Cabrera's contributions would change - just the production of a player on another team.

The vote essentially went for the story and the narrative and not which player contributed to most to his team in terms of wins (i.e. value). And the argument that Cabrera is more valuable because his team went to the playoffs is garbage and reflects a simpleton's view. The Tigers had the 7th most wins in the AL while playing in the weakest division in baseball. The Angels won more games than the Tigers and had the best record in baseball from the point Trout was recalled. So again, that is rewarding Cabrera for the production of other players and teams - in this case the fact that the rest of the division stunk.

It is a shame that the last people close to the sport still shouting that the Earth is flat - the sportswriters - have so much influence on how the game is consumed. Their words and opinions are still the lens in which so many fans view the game yet almost all the front offices left this thinking behind several years ago. If every front office was given the choice between having a player in 2013 put up an identical season to Trout's 2012 vs Cabrera's 2012, the vast majority would go with Trout. Because wins = value.

The fact is that Granderson DIDN'T hit two more HR's, so yes it was historic and it has added value that he led in the RBI, HR, and AVG categories because he was the best in every single one of them, had granderson hit two more, he wouldn't have been the best in the league at the three big hitting categories and he likely wouldn't have won the award. That's like saying...if McGwire hit 80 HR's and Bonds didn't hold the record for most in a season, should we discount the season where Bonds had over 70? And the answer is yes we should, because he was not the best in that category so even though the 75 or so he hit I think we very impressive, it would rightfully so not have been impressive enough for people to remember it forever.

That being said, I think Trout was just as worthy as Cabrera if not more because I personally don't pay attention to those categories as much as some others do..

 

[FromKoufaxtoEdwin]

The funny thing to me about this whole thing is that this season was Miggy's worst offensive season in the last 3 years (wOBA and wRC+ were much higher in 2011 and 2010). He is just a fantastic hitter, and it is a shame that he only get the attention and adulation he deserves because of some antiquated feat.

I dont particularly care about the award because I dont really value the opinion of most sports writers, but it is sad to see that so many people "close" to the game still have no understanding of what adds value to the game and how to calculate it. Trout and Cabrera were virtual washes from just a pure hitting perspective, and when factoring in baserunning, defense, position, and competition, its a true no-brainer.