Buying items listed on ebay off ebay?

[Dilferules]

Where does my situation end up? Curious about opinions. Over the last few years I've sold many items on ebay and several forums. I'll post all cards on all mentioned sites and when it sells (usually cheaper on the forus) I delete it from all other venues. If a buyer contacted me or vice versa I've edited the listing to reflect the agreed price. Not always the other way around. I pay my listing fees.
I see where the argument for ebay losing money at the end. but being an online entity where can they control what you do with your items?

If you list it on a bunch of different venues, the service of connecting you with an interested buyer has been done by whatever site you sold it through and they are the ones who should be getting paid. So if the buyer found the card on here or Blowout or something, nobody gets paid (well except for you). I don't think anybody is arguing otherwise, ebay has no right to money for a card you sold to a buyer who found it on a message board or a card show just because it happens to be listed on ebay at the time. They had nothing to do with the sale. I don't really understand the sentence I bolded above, though. Why would you alter the ebay listing when you sold the card on a message board rather than just ending it and being done with it?

 

[michaelstepper]

The bolded sentence was a different circumstance. Say I found it and contacted him to negotiate a lower price for one item or several bundled together.
Many people I've dealt with have ended the item before selling or sold it off ebay then ended the listing. I prefer to change the listing to an agreed price therefore abiding by ebay rules
Maybe ebay starts taking a small fee if a seller ends an item early?

 

[George_Calfas]

It is obvious to me why people on both sides of the isle feel as they do on this topic. Card collectors are a unique bunch and many of us grew up obtaining cards from card shows and not the internet.

Consider this point of view. The show promoter charges a table fees (similar to the eBay listing fee) so that sellers can showcase items of sale. This fee covers the operating cost which facilitates buyers and sellers coming to together in a given location. The show promoter and eBay diverge at this final value sage, the promoter does not go back to the dealer and ask "how much did you sell today because I need my cut" and this is the rub with many that feel it is ok to more a deal offline since they have already paid the showcase fees.

Personally I attempted to work a deal over the weekend and the seller would have accepted my price but only offline; I declined.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Against their TOS, yes. Stealing, no. Now Google "ebay lawsuits" and see how ebay is being sued for stealing from unsuspecting sellers by hiding their listings to promote more sales for bigger vendors. Keep fighting the good fight. ebay really needs your support. Talking about seller ethics while completely ignoring the many unethical things that ebay does and has done... priceless.

 

[Dilferules]

Against their TOS, yes. Stealing, no. Now Google "ebay lawsuits" and see how ebay is being sued for stealing from unsuspecting sellers by hiding their listings to promote more sales for bigger vendors. Keep fighting the good fight. ebay really needs your support. Talking about seller ethics while completely ignoring the many unethical things that ebay does and has done... priceless.

Deflection. We're not talking about how moral and upstanding ebay is. We're talking about how using a service and not paying for it is stealing. By this logic it's okay to shoplift from Wal-Mart because they don't pay their workers much and sell products made in questionable circumstances in China? Is it okay to steal cable because Comcast are a-holes? Just because the company has done some bad stuff doesn't make this okay...if you don't like the company, feel free to do business elsewhere. Don't use their service then not pay their agreed-upon fee. LOL you really do fancy yourself a Robin Hood. Keep fighting the good fight against those evil corporations, one FVF at a time!

 

[michaelstepper]

Deflection. We're not talking about how moral and upstanding ebay is. We're talking about how using a service and not paying for it is stealing. By this logic it's okay to shoplift from Wal-Mart because they don't pay their workers much and sell products made in questionable circumstances in China? Is it okay to steal cable because Comcast are a-holes? Just because the company has done some bad stuff doesn't make this okay...if you don't like the company, feel free to do business elsewhere. Don't use their service then not pay their agreed-upon fee. LOL you really do fancy yourself a Robin Hood. Keep fighting the good fight against those evil corporations, one FVF at a time!

I guess if they are going to make it easy with no penalty, we can debate right or wrong all day. How about that confederate flag? ( I kid, let's not start)
I see your point as well.
We're sports card collectors.. we're fickle and cheap unless you happen to be one of the minority with money falling out your butt

 

[sportscardtheory]

Deflection. We're not talking about how moral and upstanding ebay is. We're talking about how using a service and not paying for it is stealing. By this logic it's okay to shoplift from Wal-Mart because they don't pay their workers much and sell products made in questionable circumstances in China? Is it okay to steal cable because Comcast are a-holes? Just because the company has done some bad stuff doesn't make this okay...if you don't like the company, feel free to do business elsewhere. Don't use their service then not pay their agreed-upon fee. LOL you really do fancy yourself a Robin Hood. Keep fighting the good fight against those evil corporations, one FVF at a time!

It's not stealing because they never owned the money to begin with. What's not to understand. The Wal-Mart comparison is the deflection, because it's not remotely comparable. No one is legally bound to sell their own property on ebay, even if it's listed. Still waiting for just one instance of someone being charged with a crime for ending an ebay listing. Link?

 

[sportscardtheory]

Stealing from Wal-Mart; crime, you will be prosecuted.

Ending an ebay listing; not a crime, not a thing will happen.

Yet let's act like it's the same thing. lol

The second you end the listing, you are no longer bound by ebay's TOS. It's really that simple.

 

[metallicalex777]

It is obvious to me why people on both sides of the isle feel as they do on this topic. Card collectors are a unique bunch and many of us grew up obtaining cards from card shows and not the internet.

Consider this point of view. The show promoter charges a table fees (similar to the eBay listing fee) so that sellers can showcase items of sale. This fee covers the operating cost which facilitates buyers and sellers coming to together in a given location. The show promoter and eBay diverge at this final value sage, the promoter does not go back to the dealer and ask "how much did you sell today because I need my cut" and this is the rub with many that feel it is ok to more a deal offline since they have already paid the showcase fees.

Personally I attempted to work a deal over the weekend and the seller would have accepted my price but only offline; I declined.

I don't view offline ebay deals as theft, and without ebay wanting to do something to keep their "customers" both seller and buyer wise we would not have things like ebucks if it wasn't for situations like the ones in this thread.

 

[Dilferules]

It's not stealing because they never owned the money to begin with. What's not to understand. The Wal-Mart comparison is the deflection, because it's not remotely comparable. No one is legally bound to sell their own property on ebay, even if it's listed. Still waiting for just one instance of someone being charged with a crime for ending an ebay listing. Link?

How would using a service and not paying for it not be a crime? Please answer that. I have no idea why ebay doesn't take it to court. I could speculate that their bottom line would be more hurt by banning a lot of sellers than the few bucks here and there they'd get back from the FVF's. It doesn't make it right to do it.

The Wal-Mart example was in there because you were making the argument that ebay does bad things so it's okay to not pay them. Otherwise why even bring up their ethics, since this is a discussion of seller ethics and ebay rules?

 

[sportscardtheory]

Because ebay is literally in litigation for 'stealing' from sellers by charging them for a service they aren't even providing and you can't provide one measily instance that proves it's against the law to end ebay listings yet continue on about legalities. Ethically, it is questionable to sell ebay-listed items off ebay, but there is zero evidence as to it being "stealing", as it is being called. It's akin to breaking a promise, and that is not illegal.

 

[Dilferules]

You are using a service and not paying for it. I guess I'm just a total idiot for believing that's stealing. Stupid me actually paying for stuff when I can get away with not doing it. BRB gotta find some people to partner up with on my Netflix and mlb.tv subscriptions.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Wow, you are such a saint.

 

[RStadlerASU22]

Just to be clear , I don't define it as illegal or "stealing". I just call it what it is and it's to avoid fees which violates the TOS and I have yet to hear a valid excuse other than to avoid fees. That is all.

Ryan

 

[mrdallas]

I think where people are really getting upset about is the consistent thought from one side that it is stealing thus illegal.

Avoiding fees... fine, I can agree with this sentiment but stealing is a little far fetched for me, but that is just me. Carry on

 

[michaelstepper]

I think where people are really getting upset about is the consistent thought from one side that it is stealing thus illegal.

Avoiding fees... fine, I can agree with this sentiment but stealing is a little far fetched for me, but that is just me. Carry on

Agreed.
Most sellers pay the initial listing fee anyway so ebay getting something for the service they're providing to begin with. And the ones that use the free listings.. out of say 100 listings, how many would they end early to sell offline? feel safe saying less than 3%. so the fees on the other 97%items more than pay for the initial services provided.

 

[predatorkj]

Agreed.
Most sellers pay the initial listing fee anyway so ebay getting something for the service they're providing to begin with. And the ones that use the free listings.. out of say 100 listings, how many would they end early to sell offline? feel safe saying less than 3%. so the fees on the other 97%items more than pay for the initial services provided.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking.

 

[chris19978]

I liked Georges point you go to a card show pay a table fee let’s say $100.00 each table no matter if a table sold $1,000.00 or $100,000.00 there fee is the same if ebay did this you would see less actions ended and more listings because if they make it $25.00 and unlimited listings for everyone I would have 1000 or more listings a month. I would sell everything I didn't want but ebay is all about getting the most money for their buck just like everyone here is so if I get a good selling relationship with someone and I have something they want I will sell it to them how I feel best fits me. In no way is it stealing as to steal something the company or person has to own the item and ebay doesn’t own the items that are listed and you pay a fee if you own a store so there getting money from you if you list more than the allowable free listings you’re paying them as well so there still getting paid. So please stop calling people here thief’s or stealing from ebay as the item was never there’s, the seller did all the work to list it and can end it or sell it anyway they want after it’s listed. There is no law against listing an item on ebay then selling off ebay. Yes they have a policy but all they can do if you break the policy is kick you off ebay you will not go to jail or be arrested like you would if you were caught stealing as some people keep saying so please rephrase what you’re saying because in no way shape or form is it considered stealing and that’s what people are getting so upset about as your calling them thieves when they are not.

 

[Dilferules]

I liked Georges point you go to a card show pay a table fee let’s say $100.00 each table no matter if a table sold $1,000.00 or $100,000.00 there fee is the same if ebay did this you would see less actions ended and more listings because if they make it $25.00 and unlimited listings for everyone I would have 1000 or more listings a month. I would sell everything I didn't want but ebay is all about getting the most money for their buck just like everyone here is so if I get a good selling relationship with someone and I have something they want I will sell it to them how I feel best fits me. In no way is it stealing as to steal something the company or person has to own the item and ebay doesn’t own the items that are listed and you pay a fee if you own a store so there getting money from you if you list more than the allowable free listings you’re paying them as well so there still getting paid. So please stop calling people here thief’s or stealing from ebay as the item was never there’s, the seller did all the work to list it and can end it or sell it anyway they want after it’s listed. There is no law against listing an item on ebay then selling off ebay. Yes they have a policy but all they can do if you break the policy is kick you off ebay you will not go to jail or be arrested like you would if you were caught stealing as some people keep saying so please rephrase what you’re saying because in no way shape or form is it considered stealing and that’s what people are getting so upset about as your calling them thieves when they are not.

Of course the item isn't ebay's and nobody is stealing an item. My argument is that when somebody finds your item on ebay and contacts you through ebay, then you end the auction early and sell it to them off ebay, you've ripped off ebay for services that they have provided (connecting you with the buyer, which is what ebay's entire business is all about). ebay gave you a product (connecting you with a buyer through their highly visible website which costs millions to maintain) and you didn't pay the agreed-upon price to them (listing fee plus FVF). In my book that's stealing, and I'm sorry you don't like that I call it that but that's how I feel, and as long as I feel that way I'm not changing what I say just because you don't like it and some people get upset about it.

 

[chris19978]

Of course the item isn't ebay's and nobody is stealing an item. My argument is that when somebody finds your item on ebay and contacts you through ebay, then you end the auction early and sell it to them off ebay, you've ripped off ebay for services that they have provided (connecting you with the buyer, which is what ebay's entire business is all about). ebay gave you a product (connecting you with a buyer through their highly visible website which costs millions to maintain) and you didn't pay the agreed-upon price to them (listing fee plus FVF). In my book that's stealing, and I'm sorry you don't like that I call it that but that's how I feel, and as long as I feel that way I'm not changing what I say just because you don't like it and some people get upset about it.

If they were stealing they would be in jail and ebay is paid a fee I give them $20.00 a month plus final value fee of items sold so that $20.00 is to show what I have for sale if I decide to sell off ebay it's my opinion and I have already paid them to list items I am still charged if I sell 0 items or 250 items on my ebay store. You will lose this argument every time as ebay policy is not a law so nothing has been broken to be put in jail so no one has stolen anything from ebay as they used their service for their advantage if it means selling though them or using them to draw attention to sell off ebay for a price both the buyer and seller can agree on. If I didn't know any better you work for ebay so you will say things like people are stealing or thieves instead of people are breaking ebay policy as it seems more harsh and wrong if you use words like that. I am sure I can contact my brother who is a lawyer and get his opinion if it's considered stealing and he will laugh at you. Please tell me how many people went to jail listing items on ebay and then selling them off ebay I will tell you none so they didn't break any laws only ebay policy at best.