Buying items listed on ebay off ebay?

[chris19978]

This has been a big disagreement on another topic so I figured it deserves it's on topic. I for one feel if it will benefit the seller and buyer I would be all for it if it's someone you have dealt with many times before and don't feel your ripping ebay off it the item wasn't going to be sold at the price he offered through ebay. I have seen items up for years and not sell and nobody wants that because if you list it you would like to sell it but are willing to hold on to it till the right price comes up. I am sure almost everyone has done this at some point in time most of my purchases off of ebay now were from people who know what I want and have it and offer me it before they list it on ebay as they know I will be one of the top bidders if I have the money at the time and want it that bad.

 

[predatorkj]

I hope nobody got mad. I just think there are some differences in opinion. I think the main thing I get in a disagreement over is this train of thought people have where if you list an item on eBay and somebody wants it, you owe eBay for the exposure on FVF. IMO, I really don't look down upon anyone for how they choose to sell their card. But you owe eBay for two things, per their own darn rules. A listing fee, and a FVF if, and only if, the item sells on their site. Could it be argued you're ripping them off? Yes it could. The way I look at it, it's a back door they need to lock if they don't want someone to use it. Does that make someone using it the right thing to do? Nope. But in the end, people are going to do what's best for their collection and their wallet respectively.

 

[RStadlerASU22]

I've seen your example and MrDallas examples of the card has been up there for years yada yada. Um if the card has been up for years and the 8-10% difference is what made it sell , I don't see that as a relevant example of sales off eBay. There aren't cards listed for years at say $100 and then all the sudden a $90 off eBay offer came through to sell the card. Most occurrences are with brand new or hot items, not stale merchandise. As I stated on the other thread , I am OK with it happening , but everyone needs to be honest, it only happens to save on the FVF. There is no other explanation. It's not because you know the person , it's not because oh I knew the guy had it , or anything like that. It's that the seller agrees to a sales price that they would only accept if they didn't have to pay eBay the fees at that price. It's 100% about evading the FVF. If it wasn't it would go through eBay.

Ryan

 

[Lancemountain]

Could it be argued you're ripping them off? Yes it could.

Because it is.

 

[Dilferules]

This has been a big disagreement on another topic so I figured it deserves it's on topic. I for one feel if it will benefit the seller and buyer I would be all for it if it's someone you have dealt with many times before and don't feel your ripping ebay off it the item wasn't going to be sold at the price he offered through ebay. I have seen items up for years and not sell and nobody wants that because if you list it you would like to sell it but are willing to hold on to it till the right price comes up. I am sure almost everyone has done this at some point in time most of my purchases off of ebay now were from people who know what I want and have it and offer me it before they list it on ebay as they know I will be one of the top bidders if I have the money at the time and want it that bad.

It doesn't make something okay just because you personally feel like you're not ripping them off. As for the second bolded section, that sounds like somebody was offering you something that wasn't even listed on ebay, there's no issue with that. That's just a seller you had an existing relationship with offering you something they think you'd want before they list it, ebay isn't a party to the deal.

I hope nobody got mad. I just think there are some differences in opinion. I think the main thing I get in a disagreement over is this train of thought people have where if you list an item on eBay and somebody wants it, you owe eBay for the exposure on FVF. IMO, I really don't look down upon anyone for how they choose to sell their card. But you owe eBay for two things, per their own darn rules. A listing fee, and a FVF if, and only if, the item sells on their site. Could it be argued you're ripping them off? Yes it could. The way I look at it, it's a back door they need to lock if they don't want someone to use it. Does that make someone using it the right thing to do? Nope. But in the end, people are going to do what's best for their collection and their wallet respectively.

I didn't get mad, but some people probably got mad at me for saying they were stealing/ripping ebay off by doing this. Anyway, it's against ebay's darn rules to end an auction early and sell it off ebay to somebody who found the item on ebay http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html?rmvSB=true . It would be pretty difficult to completely lock the backdoor (they do what they can by literally making it against their rules, and trying to block email addresses in ebay messages) because the only way they can really do it is by not allowing you to end an auction early, ever. And there are plenty of valid reasons to end an auction early so that's a real draconian option.

I've seen your example and MrDallas examples of the card has been up there for years yada yada. Um if the card has been up for years and the 8-10% difference is what made it sell , I don't see that as a relevant example of sales off eBay. There aren't cards listed for years at say $100 and then all the sudden a $90 off eBay offer came through to sell the card. Most occurrences are with brand new or hot items, not stale merchandise. As I stated on the other thread , I am OK with it happening , but everyone needs to be honest, it only happens to save on the FVF. There is no other explanation. It's not because you know the person , it's not because oh I knew the guy had it , or anything like that. It's that the seller agrees to a sales price that they would only accept if they didn't have to pay eBay the fees at that price. It's 100% about evading the FVF. If it wasn't it would go through eBay.

Ryan

That's a point I made late in the other thread so I'll re-make it here for anybody that didn't read it. I have more of an issue with people who for some reason think this is not ripping off/stealing from ebay, than with people who just own up to it and say they know it's wrong but they don't care because they got their money so screw ebay. Don't try to make excuses or delude yourself, own up to it.

 

[mrdallas]

I've seen your example and MrDallas examples of the card has been up there for years yada yada. Um if the card has been up for years and the 8-10% difference is what made it sell , I don't see as a relevant example of sales off eBay. There aren't cards listed for years at say $100 and then all the sudden a $90 off eBay offer came through to sell the card. Most occurrences are with brand new or hot items, not stale merchandise. As I stated on the other thread , I am OK with it happening , but everyone needs to be honest, it only happens to save on the FVF. There is no other explanation. It's not because you know the person , it's not because oh I knew the guy had it , or anything like that. It's that the seller agrees to a sales price that they would only accept if they didn't have to pay eBay the fees at that price. It's 100% about evading the FVF. If it wasn't it would go through eBay.

Ryan

Ryan,

I disagree about 100% evading the fees. Example. I have a card currently listed for sale on eBay for 180. I don't have to sell it but if I can get MY price for it I will sell it. I want to clear 150. Otherwise I will just hold onto it. So if I sell it on eBay I need to get 173 for it. Off eBay I only need to get 155 for it. Not because I care about the fees but because that is how much I want for the card. Because of the eBay fees I am charging a higher price. It is strictly because I will only sell if I clear 150 bucks, not because I want to avoid the eBay fees. I sell enough crappy 3 dollar cards on ebay where between eBay and the .30 cent automatic pp fee I am paying a little over 20% in fees. To me it isn't about the fees but how much I want for my card. I also will add this is on BIN items not auction items that I have listed.

Rob

 

[Lancemountain]

I disagree about 100% evading the fees.

to me it isn't about the fees but how much I want for my card.

Well eBay is facilitating the sale. So it doesn't really matter what you want for your card. You are welcome to sell that card on instagram or craigslist or facebook to get the price you would like.

Otherwise, doing a sale "off ebay" for a listed card is most certainly...

100% evading the fees.

You are using eBay's services but not following through with you side of the agreement. The FVF is the price you must pay to sell on eBay. Or you may choose to skirt it, cheat them but please.....at least own it. Just don't try and legitimize it.

 

[mrdallas]

Well eBay is facilitating the sale. So it doesn't really matter what you want for your card. You are welcome to sell that card on instagram or craigslist or facebook to get the price you would like.

Otherwise, doing a sale "off ebay" for a listed card is most certainly...


You are using eBay's services but not following through with you side of the agreement. The FVF is the price you must pay to sell on eBay. Or you may choose to skirt it, cheat them but please.....at least own it. Just don't try and legitimize it.

Then I will ask you the same question that I posed in the other thread??
would it be OK if the listing ended without being sold, a buyer reaches out to see if the item is still available, could a seller then do it outside of eBay?? OR do they now have to list back on eBay to sell to that buyer in your opinion. Just asking.

 

[RStadlerASU22]

Rob -

I def don't want to get into arguments w/ members over this. But your example is exactly skirting the FVF. You are listing it on eBay and if the contact is made to you through eBay and you do with that person off eBay , it's 100% because you didn't want to pay the fees. I get the example you gave , I've done it, but it's because I didn't want to pay the FVF. What other reason could it possibly be? Using the I pay enough because of PP .30 on cheap cards etc , that just doesn't matter to be honest. Try selling those cards on a free forum or marketplace. There is a reason people list on eBay , it's a better success at a sale. We can go round n round , but eBay , the employees , the technology , the advertising the PP processing the PP employees etc etc isn't free. That .30 fee that PP charges in part gets paid to the CC companies etc. Yes eBay is profitable, but it's not free to operate. Anyway , we differ on owning what is happening , we don't differ on doing it. That's it

Ryan

 

[Lancemountain]

Then I will ask you the same question that I posed in the other thread??
would it be OK if the listing ended without being sold, a buyer reaches out to see if the item is still available, could a seller then do it outside of eBay?? OR do they now have to list back on eBay to sell to that buyer in your opinion. Just asking.

The exposure, the listing, the photos.....the facilitation of the sale was still via eBay. What you do with that is up to your personal ethics.

BTW like Ryan, I'm not judging anyone on how they live their lives. But skirting the FVF is most certainly defrauding the website of your agreement and I would lump your example into that as well.

 

[mrdallas]

The exposure, the listing, the photos.....the facilitation of the sale was still via eBay. What you do with that is up to your personal ethics.

BTW like Ryan, I'm not judging anyone on how they live their lives. But skirting the FVF is most certainly defrauding the website of your agreement and I would lump your example into that as well.

i appreciate everyone's sentiments on this. Agree or disagree that is fine and this can end. But your statements are obviously making this about ethics and you have made your opinion well established. But then you mention that you are not judging anyone on how they live there lives. Questioning someone's ethics is making a judgement, no?

 

[Lancemountain]

i appreciate everyone's sentiments on this. Agree or disagree that is fine and this can end. But your statements are obviously making this about ethics and you have made your opinion well established. But then you mention that you are not judging anyone on how they live there lives. Questioning someone's ethics is making a judgement, no?

I never questioned your ethics.....I simply said that "what you do with that is up to your personal ethics"

Skirting FVF's to me has no gray area. If there was, you wouldn't be trying so hard to legitimize it. Listing an item on eBay comes with an agreement. Whether or not you follow through on your end is, again "up to your personal ethics"

 

[mrdallas]

Lol, you must be a lawyer mountain. Have a good night, Fun discussion.

 

[Lancemountain]

Point being:

eBay offers a service. They charge fees for that service. You are not forced to use eBay's service. If anyone has issues with the fees that eBay charges then they are welcome to sell their items on facebook, instagram, craigslist or even start their own website. Listing an item on eBay is accepting their terms of sale and any deviation of that is very simple and straightforward: it is theft of service, it is stealing and it breaking the agreement that you agreed to whilst listing your item. If you do skirt the FVF, that's for you and your own personal ethics barometer to deal with. Just don't try and explain it away.

 

[Lancemountain]

Lol, you must be a lawyer mountain.Have a good night, Fun discussion.

Oh, God no lol. I have a soul

Take care, and no personal feelings attached to my posts

 

[matfanofold]

If you are using eBay to show, promote, list your merchandise that in turn facilitated a sale than eBay is due their fair share, limited to only whay you agree upon by using the tools they "sell". This also applies to PayPal.

Deliberately circumventing that is obviously mischevious and clearly against policy and/or pre-agreed upon terms of usage.

Having said that I am not so firmly against the practice I wish to kick up mud, however I do find those that habitually use that method to be something less than honorable.

 

[predatorkj]

Because it is.

Not entirely. I'm on the fence.

 

[predatorkj]

I've seen your example and MrDallas examples of the card has been up there for years yada yada. Um if the card has been up for years and the 8-10% difference is what made it sell , I don't see that as a relevant example of sales off eBay. There aren't cards listed for years at say $100 and then all the sudden a $90 off eBay offer came through to sell the card. Most occurrences are with brand new or hot items, not stale merchandise. As I stated on the other thread , I am OK with it happening , but everyone needs to be honest, it only happens to save on the FVF. There is no other explanation. It's not because you know the person , it's not because oh I knew the guy had it , or anything like that. It's that the seller agrees to a sales price that they would only accept if they didn't have to pay eBay the fees at that price. It's 100% about evading the FVF. If it wasn't it would go through eBay.

Ryan

I agree.

 

[predatorkj]

The exposure, the listing, the photos.....the facilitation of the sale was still via eBay. What you do with that is up to your personal ethics.

BTW like Ryan, I'm not judging anyone on how they live their lives. But skirting the FVF is most certainly defrauding the website of your agreement and I would lump your example into that as well.

You mean that even if your listing runs its course, you get a buyer who saw it there but never purchased it and they reach out about doing so, you feel obligated to relist through eBay a second time. To do otherwise is unethical? Just trying to clarify.

 

[michaelstepper]

Where does my situation end up? Curious about opinions. Over the last few years I've sold many items on ebay and several forums. I'll post all cards on all mentioned sites and when it sells (usually cheaper on the forus) I delete it from all other venues. If a buyer contacted me or vice versa I've edited the listing to reflect the agreed price. Not always the other way around. I pay my listing fees.
I see where the argument for ebay losing money at the end. but being an online entity where can they control what you do with your items?