Lack of appreciation for baseball's history - My rant

At least you collect Killebrew. He was a great one and very underrated. Also has one of the prettiest sigs around.

I saw the pickups and think it's impressive that you have that many. I hadn't ever heard of the players, so figured a comment would be pointless. Obviously they were great players considering they are HOFers and the prices you paid.

cjedmonton said:

...How can we expect today's generation of fan/collector to want to learn about the legacies of players who their grandparents idolized as kids? In fact, as older family members of today's young fans pass on, there's even less opportunity to have that history/knowledge imparted on them, barring an exceptional level of initiative on their part. In 2013, there are simply too many other attractions jockeying for the attention of this generation. ...

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Given the main "purpose" of a baseball card is to educate, baseball cards can help. People forget there are two sides to a baseball card and that there's room for information on the reverse side.

Sure, new cards of old players can be made, but vintage cards (and even retro cards) still exist and is a way for people to learn about the game as it used to be. For future generations, today's cards should be less thought of as a stock certificate to have the same historical value vintage cards currently have.

Gonzaleznut said:

At least you collect Killebrew. He was a great one and very underrated. Also has one of the prettiest sigs around.

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Yea, gorgeous signature. Now if only I could make myself shell out for one haha.

Gonzaleznut said:

the "Prospect-centric" nature of the hobby today.

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I'm pretty much a prospect-only collector, and most of you probably know that. But, I'm not so sure the above statement is correct. FreedomCardBoard.com may be prospect-centric, but I'm willing to bet Topps' biggest selling product in Baseball is their yearly Topps release. We've been socialized for a good while now to believe prospecting is bigger in the grand scope of collecting than it really is. Now, that's neither good nor bad, but I'm willing to bet that the amount of HOF, Set, and Player collectors trumps the number of prospectors in this industry by at least ten fold.

Second, to the overall point. Collecting prospects doesn't define me as a fan. Nor, does collecting players who've contributed less to the game than the players I prospect. And frankly, there's about 10-percent of me that resents this statement.

Third, there's an obvious attempt in each response here to prove some sort of sophistication regarding the way you collect. Collect whomever you want as long as it brings a smile to your face and doesn't push you into poverty. For me, the smile comes when the prospect becomes a star and I'm rewarded for the effort, risk-taking, and research that's come to fruition.

Last, and less-seriously, if a HOF-collector wants to put themselves on a pedestal as some sort of elitist collector over a prospector remember, I probably do more research than you do day-in-and-day-out. There's my attempt at sophistication.

Just think. In 20 years, all these cards that these "prospectors" are going through like water will be worth pretty much nothing and all the cards of accomplished players will have value. Just think of it that way. Who cares about what they buy/sell/trade. Keep doing what you are doing.

True...true. Just more for me.

sportscardtheory said:

Just think. In 20 years, all these cards that these "prospectors" are going through like water will be worth pretty much nothing and all the cards of accomplished players will have value. Just think of it that way. Who cares about what they buy/sell/trade. Keep doing what you are doing.

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I have an appreciation for the history of baseball, but it does not necessarily relate to my collecting. I have watched the Ken Burns Baseball documentary all the way through 1.75 times, for example, because I find it so interesting.

But when it comes to collecting, I prefer to collect what I experienced. I like players from when I was a teen and in my early 20's. There something about and the connection to how I felt about the game then that is different than my relationship with the game now. It's almost like I am trying to re-live that period of my life when I felt good about baseball, and I'm doing it via collecting. I guess that's nostalgia. I also value baseball cards as pop art, and that's why I love those Super Sweet 90's Cards.

It doesn't matter to me how rare a Christy Mathewson auto is or how much a Babe Ruth is worth. I'd rather watch a documentary on Christy and the Babe and then hop on ebay and buy a rare Jay Buhner card.

Sometimes the twain shall meet. I adore my Hank Aaron card serial numbered 755.

I haven't experienced much in this hobby that compares to the thrill and enjoyment of prospect cards. I have my share of retired player cards and autos but maybe I don't appreciate the history of the sport. Maybe I just want the cards because they are desirable. I do hope there's more to that but I have more fun reading up on prospects than I would about guys who played before I was born. And if I wanted to meet retired players, I'd have to shell out a good amount of money just to shake his hand and have him sign something for me? No thanks. I'll pay less for an on card auto on ebay and even then I may not feel like it's worthwhile. I find it silly to spend to say hi to someone because he was/is better than I'll ever be at a sport I love.

Prospecting has become my new way of enjoying the hobby. I have to work hard, but I also get to own more than I thought possible and get paid doing it. I don't get to keep 99% of prospect cards, which I like. If I would have owned a Mike Trout Chrome auto, I can look back and say, "Wow, I sold this for $75 and profited $10. Who would have ever guessed that price would be a steal today." That is awesome.

Finally, there's a severe lack of new quality retired player cards available on the market today. I own almost every retired player card I want and that makes me happy. I can focus more on prospects now.

sportscardtheory said:

Just think. In 20 years, all these cards that these "prospectors" are going through like water will be worth pretty much nothing and all the cards of accomplished players will have value. Just think of it that way. Who cares about what they buy/sell/trade. Keep doing what you are doing.

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Sure, its always been this way, even before prospecting with your traditional/regular RCs.

But obviously the people who buy and sell prospects will have ditched their cards as soon as possible themselves to someone else - so why should they care?

uniquebaseballcards said:

Sure, its always been this way, even before prospecting with your traditional/regular RCs.

But obviously the people who buy and sell prospects will have ditched their cards as soon as possible themselves to someone else - so why should they care?

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Prospecting is empty and hollow, while collecting proven stars will leave you with more value and fulfillment in the future. That is my point. Some person who is constantly flipping prospects is eventually left with nothing, whereas people who buy proven players will most certainly have something in the future. Making money and collecting are two very different things. Of course they are both integral parts of the hobby. What I'm talking about is what someone GETS out of the hobby.

sportscardtheory said:

Prospecting is empty and hollow, while collecting proven stars will leave you with more value and fulfillment in the future. That is my point. Some person who is constantly flipping prospects is eventually left with nothing, whereas people who buy proven players will most certainly have something in the future. Making money and collecting are two very different things. Of course they are both integral parts of the hobby. What I'm talking about is what someone GETS out of the hobby.

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EMpty and hollow...

Let me speak on both sides of the coin. First, I have a Mike Schmidt collection ranging from every card of his produced from 1972 through 1990. I also, obviously, am a prospector.

As much as I love Mike Schmidt, I receive no joy in getting another Mike Schmidt rare card of /5 or /10 that was produced this year. And I have all of the Vintage Schmidt I need. Therefore, I have a new hobby - the same I've had for the past 20 years - finding minor leaguers, investing, and hopefully, flipping. Whether you approve or not is irrelevant. I do it because they're Phillies minor leaguers, and that is a passion of mine. I go to minor league games with my family and watch these kids play. I enjoy the anticipation of them coming to High A ball and then watching them go to AA, AAA, and the majors. And if I can collect, invest, buy their cards, then flip them when they do well to reinvest the money into another minor leaguer, what's wrong with that?

sportscardtheory said:

Prospecting is empty and hollow, while collecting proven stars will leave you with more value and fulfillment in the future. That is my point. Some person who is constantly flipping prospects is eventually left with nothing, whereas people who buy proven players will most certainly have something in the future. Making money and collecting are two very different things. Of course they are both integral parts of the hobby. What I'm talking about is what someone GETS out of the hobby.

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Most of this paragraph is not true.

I didn't get to see the OP's other videos but if his first was any indication, I'm sure it was great. I really love the history of the game. I've read countless books on old football, basketball, and baseball players and teams. I love it because it shows a time when things happened and things that might never have a chance to be repeated. Take Ty Cobb for instance. If that dude was playing today he would already be barred from baseball and a lot of fans would hate his guts. He was one mean SOB and got away with a lot of stuff. But the point is he existed and played and so we can read and learn about something very interesting that wouldn't have a chance to happen in today's world.

Reading about Hank Aaron was really eye opening, seeing what he had to go through. Even Babe Ruth's exploits are cool considering what he did to his health and how far he got professionally despite it. And books about the ***** leagues are good too. I guess my point is all of these guys and teams were innovators in a way. They did things where the time and opportunity had to be just right.

So some of us do appreciate the past. But a lot of people are about the here and now. And I've seen a slew of people in this hobby only out to make money. But IMO, money causes people to change. I think a lot of folks start as collectors and then when they see how easy it is to make money, they lose interest in collecting. Some still have respect for collectors and others laugh wondering how stupid can people be to pay so much for virtually worthless items. So history of the game might never even enter some of these people's minds. And it's also hard to get a kid interested in a player he can only read about. There are some players who might only have a few known photos, let alone cards or footage of them playing. Kinda hard to rock somebody's world with that if they aren't motivated to look into it.

It's a message board - like it was mentioned, one can go to Net54 to talk about vintage though many of those guys are serious and not just want to talk trivia or games - there are probably other actual baseball forums with discussions of the history of the game.

I find that the vintage threads are what they are - it doesn't relate to how I collect [I'm not even a prospector] and while appreciated by others, just mostly off-topic [non card related] soapbox posts - so I don't click to find out which guy had the most pinch hits in the 1954 season or which guy had the most holds in the 1945 season.

Bob Loblaw said:

Whether you approve or not is irrelevant.

...what's wrong with that?

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I never said that I don't approve and I also never said there is anything wrong with it. What I said was, in the end, prospecting doesn't leave you with great cards of great players. It leaves you with either more money than when you started or less money than when you started. It's not collecting, is my point. It's mostly about making a buck for most people. You are one of the rare ones where it's fun too, but don't lie to yourself and act like it's that way with most who prospect. It's about making money for most of them.

sportscardtheory said:

I never said that I don't approve and I also never said there is anything wrong with it. What I said was, in the end, prospecting doesn't leave you with great cards of great players. It leaves you with either more money than when you started or less money than when you started. It's not collecting, is my point. It's mostly about making a buck for most people. You are one of the rare ones where it's fun too, but don't lie to yourself and act like it's that way with most who prospect. It's about making money for most of them.

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Let's say it's not fun for me. Let's say I'm not collecting my favorite team - I'm just buying and selling - again, what is collecting for you is different than others. And does the term collecting mean that you have to hold them forever? It's fairly obvious that I'm collecting Jesse Biddle, Darin Ruf, and others. Check my ebay purchases to see what else. Does that mean I'm never going to sell? ABsolutely not. So "in the end" -- does that mean on our deathbeds? In 10 years? 20 years? Or 3 years? Whether I hold for 2 days or 30 years, I'm still collecting. We all collect what and how we want. It may sadden some that someone would rather have a Jurickson Profar auto than a Hank Aaron or Willie Mays, but that's the way the world is now. Not everyone wants autographs of 70 year old men.

Further, I can't share my Schmidt collection with my son; he doesn't know Schmidt other than as an old man. However, we can share Cole Hamels and Vance WOrley and Jesse Biddle, as these are guys that my son has met and has pictures with, and in one case, has hung out with.

Bob Loblaw said:

Let's say it's not fun for me. Let's say I'm not collecting my favorite team - I'm just buying and selling - again, what is collecting for you is different than others. And does the term collecting mean that you have to hold them forever? It's fairly obvious that I'm collecting Jesse Biddle, Darin Ruf, and others. Check my ebay purchases to see what else. Does that mean I'm never going to sell? ABsolutely not. So "in the end" -- does that mean on our deathbeds? In 10 years? 20 years? Or 3 years? Whether I hold for 2 days or 30 years, I'm still collecting. We all collect what and how we want. It may sadden some that someone would rather have a Jurickson Profar auto than a Hank Aaron or Willie Mays, but that's the way the world is now. Not everyone wants autographs of 70 year old men.

Further, I can't share my Schmidt collection with my son; he doesn't know Schmidt other than as an old man. However, we can share Cole Hamels and Vance WOrley and Jesse Biddle, as these are guys that my son has met and has pictures with, and in one case, has hung out with.

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If you aren't buying to flip and make a profit in the near future, then you simply aren't a prospector. You are just a guy who collects Phillies cards and sells them sometimes.

There is room for all types of collectors in this hobby. I don't prospect, but I don't begrudge those that do or think that I'm superior to them. Value is what someone is willing to pay. You many think the hot prospect auto selling for more than a HOFer is ridiculous, but if that's the market, so be it. Most of what you're comparing to is all modern anyway - modern HOF autos to modern prospects.

I don't understand if you're such a vintage lover, why you have Josh Hamilton in your signature? Shouldn't you be promoting your proven stars?

can we have a HOF and retired players forum. i think theres enough collectors on here that would go for that.