Did I find another shiller? CONFIRMED!

[tonsofcommons]

Conspiracy? Really? The bidder has 48% of his bids on BBCEs auctions.

I'm sorry, but if you win a card for $22.50 and you don't pay, you're on my blocked list.

So he is either shilling his auctions or he isn't very smart to let a non-paying bidder continue to bid and not pay.

 

[D-Lite]

I don't know man, Steve has always been straight up. I tend to think that there are just some dumb people on eBay that like to shill other people's auctions to inflate prices for their own benefit. I've had multiple auctions where the winner didn't pay, didn't communicate and then even the second guy was none responsive, this across multiple auctions with the same #1 then #2 bidders. The sheer number of auctions BBCE has and the pristine feedback should be reassuring and dealing with him directly is a pleasure. The online store prices are reasonable as well for such a huge inventory of wax.

 

[trauty]

I know I've had a few buyers in the past that have won the same auction twice and it damn sure wasn't a shill bidder. Unless you can prove this goes on in many instances, I think I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[tonsofcommons]

Alright. Dropping it. Doesn't matter. He saved me $7, so whatever.

 

[notjomommasclint]

48% isn't a fluke. It's a XXXX hair shy every other bid! If I kicked you in the balls 48% of the time you said hello to me you would notice a trend. I'm not out to lynch anyone.. But the facts are its a simple process.

Seller lists card
Buyer sees card
Buyer bids on card
Buyer pays.

If buyer no pay you file
Buyer pays

If buyer still no pay you block him

We supposed to assume that a well polished ebay seller would allow his auctions to be hit by a non payer more than one time? Sometimes it is the best reputations that burn you!

 

[tonsofcommons]

I know I've had a few buyers in the past that have won the same auction twice and it damn sure wasn't a shill bidder. Unless you can prove this goes on in many instances, I think I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

So why did he win the same auction twice? Did he not pay the first time? If so, why did you let him bid again?

 

[tonsofcommons]

48% isn't a fluke. It's a XXXX hair shy every other bid! If I kicked you in the balls 48% of the time you said hello to me you would notice a trend. I'm not out to lynch anyone.. But the facts are its a simple process.

Seller lists card
Buyer sees card
Buyer bids on card
Buyer pays.

If buyer no pay you file
Buyer pays

If buyer still no pay you block him

We supposed to assume that a well polished ebay seller would allow his auctions to be hit by a non payer more than one time? Sometimes it is the best reputations that burn you!

Well said!

And I'm not out to lynch anyone either, but really? I just don't know how this COULDN'T be shilling.

Just be warned.

 

[George_Calfas]

The bidding is odd. I always tend to look at the amount of bids and amount of bids with seller. The buyer in question has bid 27 times on 19 auctions. If a seller has listed a large amount of cards and many are similar 27 bids over 19 auctions is child's play.

I would hazard a guess that Steve does not have time to block every non-paying bidder. FWIW, Steve has always been willing to discussion matters on the phone.

 

[westerngac]

Eddie, I guess anything's possible but I'd be surprised if it was shilling in this case. i think the seller has a pretty big business online selling wax, IIRC.

Could be a case of a non-paying bidder and he just relisted it instead of doing second chance offer...I know I've done that before.

A pretty big business selling wax online, and nearly 300 "hits" listed on his ebay, nearly 2/3 of them certified autos....makes you wonder about something other than just shilling, doesn't it?

 

[bcubs]

A pretty big business selling wax online, and nearly 300 "hits" listed on his ebay, nearly 2/3 of them certified autos....makes you wonder about something other than just shilling, doesn't it?

Seriously? Have you ever dealt with BBCE? They have an employee who travels around the country buying full collections and entire card shops that go out of business, that's where the majority of these hits come from. I doubt he's searching packs or busting boxes to get hits for listing on Ebay. Check his other ID without the number in the name or the website if you are interested in what he specializes in. Better yet, there are some other forums where you can get guys lined up to speak to his character.

 

[westerngac]

Seriously? Have you ever dealt with BBCE? They have an employee who travels around the country buying full collections and entire card shops that go out of business, that's where the majority of these hits come from. I doubt he's searching packs or busting boxes to get hits for listing on Ebay. Check his other ID without the number in the name or the website if you are interested in what he specializes in. Better yet, there are some other forums where you can get guys lined up to speak to his character.

I'm sure you can get guys lined up around the block to speak to his character, but that won't help much if there's proven shill activity on his ebay account, will it?

Some of the most shady and underhanded people I ever knew back in school were part of an honors program and considered beyond reproach.

People will throw away their morals and values when they deem it necessary to do so.

 

[bcubs]

I'm sure you can get guys lined up around the block to speak to his character, but that won't help much if there's proven shill activity on his ebay account, will it?

Some of the most shady and underhanded people I ever knew back in school were part of an honors program and considered beyond reproach.

People will throw away their morals and values when they deem it necessary to do so.

I don't disagree with your last two statements but in having done business many times in the past with this company I do not think it applicable in this case, at least in my experiences. As to the shilling allegation, I don't believe it has been proven. I'm not a big buyer on Ebay but there are a few sellers I do check on from time to time and if I went back and looked I'll bet there were times when the majority of my bids were with one or two sellers and most items I lost as I put in lower bids and got outbid.

 

[westerngac]

I don't disagree with your last two statements but in having done business many times in the past with this company I do not think it applicable in this case, at least in my experiences. As to the shilling allegation, I don't believe it has been proven. I'm not a big buyer on Ebay but there are a few sellers I do check on from time to time and if I went back and looked I'll bet there were times when the majority of my bids were with one or two sellers and most items I lost as I put in lower bids and got outbid.

I've been there too, I've bid on nearly 100 different auctions from one seller and been outbid on 90 of them, because I don't get into bidding wars and don't overpay, ever. I win at the percentage that l feel comfortable paying or I let the card go. But even with that, at no time has my bid activity been nearly 50% with one seller, nor have I been the winner who didn't pay and then bid on the exact same card from the same seller again.

 

[Lancemountain]

So why did he win the same auction twice? Did he not pay the first time? If so, why did you let him bid again?

There is a guy that inflates the prices of Topps black borders. Long thread here about, sick XXXX.

It's entirely plausable that he won and didn't pay, the seller (who has a very large and busy buisness) didn't block the guy and he bid again and didn't pay. At that point perhaps he did and that is where you were able to win it. And if he was shilling, why not bid it up again the third time?

Why would this guy rick his reputation over a $15 card anyway? His buisness is based on his reputation within the hobby.

 

[allstars]

There is a guy that inflates the prices of Topps black borders. Long thread here about, sick XXXX.

It's entirely plausable that he won and didn't pay, the seller (who has a very large and busy buisness) didn't block the guy and he bid again and didn't pay. At that point perhaps he did and that is where you were able to win it. And if he was shilling, why not bid it up again the third time?

Why would this guy rick his reputation over a $15 card anyway? His buisness is based on his reputation within the hobby.

This is all about a $15 card??? BWAHAHAHA!

 

[tonsofcommons]

Why does it matter how much the XXXXing card is worth?

Shilling is shilling. end of story.

 

[D-Lite]

Why does it matter how much the XXXXing card is worth?

Shilling is shilling. end of story.

It matters what the card is worth because when you're selling a lot of big ticket items to risk your reputation on a $15 card is absolutely preposterous. BBCE does a lot of big ticket items including many via BIN. And when your reputation is good and you do volume like they do, you can expect to get prices you want to get as well.

 

[George_Calfas]

God forbid that one bidder bids on 10 auctions from one seller.

Look at the numbers, this is not a shill. Why he failed to pay who knows but many of us that have sold on eBay have ran across non-payers.

 

[Sportsnutcards]

This thread is just silly. Steve hart has one of the best reputations in the business and there is no way he would put his repuation on the line to shill a $20 card or any card for that matter. There are so many factors involved it is very unfair to say for sure wether someone is shilling or not unless you have definitive proof, which is not the case here at all. I sell a lot on ebay and probably have about 15 to 20 Non paying nidders a month and I have never blocked anyone for not paying. I just dont care or have the time to worry about it and im sure this is the case here.

 

[notjomommasclint]

Well since his reputation is so great lets not discuss it. Clearly he is innocent.. Clearly there is not a talking point. Clearly running up 25 auctions $7 doesn't make as much sense as running up 1 auction $100. It's not like half the guys bids were on the sellers auctions. Half!! One of every 2 auctions..

Is there a book we can verify reputations in for future reference? It's awesome how when it's someone that doesn't benefit a group on the board everyone gets their mother XXXXing pitchforks and torches.. But a guy that is "reputable" gets questioned and its burn the op.

Here's a list of people with glowing reputations..

Bernie madoff
Lance armstrong
Every priest to touch a child
John Wayne gacy
Haiku

It's good their reputation kept them from being sneaky and underhanded..