ebay sellers may want to read this

[ballerskrip]

Buyers are apparently so ignorant sometimes they think that shipping & HANDLING charges are the same thing as shipping charges and ding your auction accordingly.

And so are sellers who feel the need to tax everything on (at max price and exaggerated of course) in an attempt to make a point and a few cents, in your case dollars. Its quite simple if you cant afford to ship dont sell on ebay and make 55 excuses on why you are making ANY money on shipping.

If you ship 55 packages in one day you made something like $110 dollars IN SHIPPING alone. For something that literally take 10-20 mins at the post office or 5 mins at your house at the computer. But as with most who are nickel and dimming they HATE the ship at home option as they cant charge you for the sandwich on the way to the bank.

If you want to open a shipping business go ahead but you arent you are selling cards on ebay.

Are you that ignorant to think that mailing 55 packages takes 10-20 minutes? 55 packages will take over an hour just to print the labels alone, let alone packing the cards, taping the labels, and getting them to the PO. I can tell that you don't sell much, because you are clueless. I don't understand why novices come on here and act like experts.

Also, do you pay exact shipping when you purchase from Best Buy, Home shopping network, macys, etc? Of course you don't! You pay for shipping at 99.9% of businesses. You might get free shipping if the item is over $50 or $100. I would gladly offer free shipping on any item over $50, but Ebay does NOT ALLOW YOU to put stipulations on your auctions such as this.


Get a clue

 

[Fandruw25]

Just because you know the shipping and handling charges before hand doesn't make them reasonable.

If that's the case, then I should be able to sell a Hank Aaron auto and charge $100 for shipping & Handling, send it in a bubble mailer with DC and expect my DSR's to stay the same, right? Afterall, the buyer knew the shipping charges before hand.

 

[mgar26]

yes, i charged $2.99 + .50 for each additional card. there were no hidden charges. everything was right on the auction page. it even said if you do not agree with these terms and conditions, please do not bid. but i gave discounts beyond that as well depending on actuall shipping cost. i just covered my ass. its smart business. and it dont matter if you agree or disagree with my shipping cost. and it should not matter if 21 people left low dsr scores for me. that is only based on thier opinion. the point of this thread is that ebay kicked off a seller of 11 years with over 7000 positive feedback, with zero negative or neutral, had an average dsr rating of 4.925 and no disputes or open cases in years. people are always going to disagree on shipping charges. thats not the point here.

 

[braden]

I'm Canadian and sell 95% of my items to the States. My 'shipping time' DSR is 4.6 w/ numerous 1s and 2s because some people are too lazy or stupid to check the postmark. I ship everything within two business days and that's at the latest. But because it often takes a week or two to get to the buyer, I get killed. I hope it's true that international ratings don't count otherwise I'll certainly be given the boot.

 

[pac213up]

to answer Tom Oates, i charged $2.99 and .50 for additional. point is, if buyer does not agree or like the shipping charges, they should not bid. and again, i was not left negative for any transactions, just low dsr scores which should not affect anything since it is only someones opinion. i got banned based on the opinions of 21 buyers who left low dsr scores for me as well as positive feedback. that makes sense.

just playing devils' adv. here, but if I bought 5 cards from you and you charged me $4.99 s&h.
if I get the mailer and see it cost you $1.47 to ship, that's when a buyer has every right to give a less than 5 DSR

doesn't make eBay's actions right, but I get tired of all this "you knew the shipping charges" BS

First I realize you are playing devils advocate.

But if you read the auction and knew you were going to pay $4.99 shipping and handling then why? You don't know how the seller arrives at those charges.

Personally I spend quite a bit of time packaging each of my items, large scale operations like 4sc probably has staff that assists in packing and have to pay them a salary. Time is not free, nor are the bubble mailers, nor are the hard plastics, nor are the penny sleeves, nor is the ink to print the label, nor is the paper to print the label, nor is the tape to package the item, I cut up cardboard boxes for additional protection and those aren't free either.

In regards to my time packaging said item, gas to take it to the post office, etc. It's not free, I really don't understand why the buyers feel they have right to question shipping pricing, when stated in the auction. I even go as far to state in my auction how that they will be shipped in bubble mailers. And although I allow for 3 days handling time before I ship, I generally stay up late (even though I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old at home) in order to get peoples packages out next day after payment.

I mean the title is shipping and HANDLING Charges
from dictionary.com "3. a. the process by which a commodity is packaged, transported, etc b. ( as modifier ): handling charges"

Yet despite all that I have been dinged on shipping charges (not low DSR, but still not a 5).


Buyers are apparently so ignorant sometimes they think that shipping & HANDLING charges are the same thing as shipping charges and ding your auction accordingly.

Ebay S&H policy:

What you allowed to charge. Shipping - Actual shipping cost. Handling - this can include the cost of packaging materials and insurance cost, if any.

What you're not allowed to charge
Related fees: Things like gas, mileage, time spent at a carrier, employee wages, or eBay and PayPal fees should not be added.

Buyers have the right because sometimes they are getting charged for things that Ebay's policy specifically prohibits them from being charged for. Not that I agree but when you decide to sell on Ebay you have to play by their rules....even when they make it difficult.

 

[mgar26]

i guess one good thing that you can learn from this is that if you want to get rid of certain sellers who make and sell fake patch cards or fake auto cards and are ruining the hobby, just drop some low dsr scores on them and ebay makes them go away.

 

[cgilmo]

I had this happen to me as well after 7 years of selling and a whopping 2 negative feedbacks during that time. I respect Chris and the powers that be on these boards and I understand that having Ebay on your side may make financial sense----but I always thought that FCB was started "By Collectors For Collectors". There is always talk on these boards that FCB is a big collecting family--Well when someone or something does harm to your family---You protect family! I had brought up awhile back about wanting this community to help the people who had been kicked off of Ebay---to help establish new feedback---I was told that might offend a certain company.

What makes FCB a really cool place to be is that "The Man" or in this case "The Bay" does'nt dictate---Lets keep it that way!

I have no clue what you are talking about.

eBay does not even want to dictate what goes on here. They just wanna pay for traffic, and we will gladly allow them to do that.

 

[reljac]

Ebay S&H policy:

What you allowed to charge. Shipping - Actual shipping cost. Handling - this can include the cost of packaging materials and insurance cost, if any.

What you're not allowed to charge
Related fees: Things like gas, mileage, time spent at a carrier, employee wages, or eBay and PayPal fees should not be added.

Buyers have the right because sometimes they are getting charged for things that Ebay's policy specifically prohibits them from being charged for. Not that I agree but when you decide to sell on Ebay you have to play by their rules....even when they make it difficult.

Thanked for good info. I was talking off the top of my head and hadn't cross verified it.

I also completely forgot to mention the insurance cost. Here's the paypal Run Down on a 2 oz package with Insurance
Package cost $1.56 USD
Delivery confirmation $0.19 USD
Insurance cost $1.75 USD
Total shipping cost $3.50 USD

Add in packaging costs and actually shipping runs over $4.00

In addition, if you are shipping an item that's valued at $250 or more, ebay requires signature confirmation to comply, which costs $1.75.

Package cost $1.56 USD
Delivery confirmation $0.19 USD
Insurance cost $1.75 USD
Signature Confirmation $1.75
Total shipping cost $5.25 USD

Add in packaging costs and actually shipping runs over $5.75

I know many sellers don't use insurance, but Ebay will still require them to refund (self-insure) an item damaged in transit. Ebay removed the ability to charge separately for insurance awhile ago unfortunately, so it has become a seller cost rather than a buyer option.

 

[f2tornado]

I am shocked eBay would boot sellers in this fashion. I thought the whole DSR thing was to provide discount incentives for sellers meeting criteria and not be a form of punishment for others.

As a buyer, I do think $3+ shipping or $1 for each additional item is a bit much. I am able to charge about $1.35 on cheap stuff as a seller and make out even. I do lose a little when people buy multiple items, particularly slabs, as I charge nothing for each additional item. This must be working as an incentive to buyers as a solid percentage of my sales are multiples. I agree perspective buyers agree to the shipping rate when placing a bid. While I have no problem with a buyer noting the shipping fee was perceived to be excessive in the DSR I feel this DSR should not impact the ability of the seller to continue conducting business on the site.

I do understand eBay's desire to avoid sellers profiting from shipping at the expense of FVFs. One solution is to simply include shipping charges into the FVF. This would screw sellers not profiting from shipping but eBay could make an exception below a certain threshold. Another possible yet potentially complicated solution would be for eBay to set a maximum shipping charge. Perhaps this would be some subcategory average that could get reset annually. If the average shipping rate for ungraded single cards is $2.68 then that would be the max a seller could charge for an ungraded single. The most extreme option would be free shipping only but I doubt it happens as this would likely lead to a huge loss of listings. Once upon a time a player collector could go on eBay and pick up some $3 card and typically pay $1.50 to get it shipped. Now $3 or more to get it shipped is very common. The buyer now has to either bite the bullet on eBay or hope the item is available on Sportlots, Sportsbuy, COMC, Beckett Marketplace, or other trade site. eBay does not want to lose these customers. I'm glad to see eBay wise up on the problem but feel they are not handling it in the proper manner.

On a related note, excessive shipping is what took me out of being a true player collector.

 

[jaderock]

I don't think it's an issue of +/- feedback or DSRs (as everyone in this thread seems to have excellent DSRs), but rather ebay's "definition" of compliance/Seller performance standards:

Here's a snapshot of what they allow:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/sel ... mance.html

Detailed seller rating requirements
To meet the minimum performance standards that are required to sell on eBay, the number of 1 and 2 ratings you receive on your detailed seller ratings can't exceed a certain percentage of your total transactions.

Here are the minimum detailed seller ratings requirements all eBay sellers are expected to meet:

DSR Category
Percentage of 1 and 2 ratings
Maximum number of occurrences

Item as described
1%
3

Communication
2%
3

Shipping time
2%
3

Shipping and handling charges
2%
3

To measure your overall performance accurately, we'll count 1 and 2 ratings only if they come from 2 or more buyers within any given evaluation period. If you have more than 400 transactions, 3 or more buyers must leave low detailed seller ratings before they are counted.

---

And it only takes 2 or 3 unhappy buyers to kill you. It's really tough.

 

[jaderock]

Another possible yet potentially complicated solution would be for eBay to set a maximum shipping charge. Perhaps this would be some subcategory average that could get reset annually. If the average shipping rate for ungraded single cards is $2.68 then that would be the max a seller could charge for an ungraded single. The most extreme option would be free shipping only but I doubt it happens as this would likely lead to a huge loss of listings. Once upon a time a player collector could go on eBay and pick up some $3 card and typically pay $1.50 to get it shipped. Now $3 or more to get it shipped is very common. The buyer now has to either bite the bullet on eBay or hope the item is available on Sportlots, Sportsbuy, COMC, Beckett Marketplace, or other trade site. eBay does not want to lose these customers. I'm glad to see eBay wise up on the problem but feel they are not handling it in the proper manner.

Doesn't ebay do that in some categories already (or at least "alert" you that s/h is TOO high if it's over X amount)? I thought they did that in the book category?!?

 

[Kidmikey]

Another possible yet potentially complicated solution would be for eBay to set a maximum shipping charge. Perhaps this would be some subcategory average that could get reset annually. If the average shipping rate for ungraded single cards is $2.68 then that would be the max a seller could charge for an ungraded single. The most extreme option would be free shipping only but I doubt it happens as this would likely lead to a huge loss of listings. Once upon a time a player collector could go on eBay and pick up some $3 card and typically pay $1.50 to get it shipped. Now $3 or more to get it shipped is very common. The buyer now has to either bite the bullet on eBay or hope the item is available on Sportlots, Sportsbuy, COMC, Beckett Marketplace, or other trade site. eBay does not want to lose these customers. I'm glad to see eBay wise up on the problem but feel they are not handling it in the proper manner.

Doesn't ebay do that in some categories already (or at least "alert" you that s/h is TOO high if it's over X amount)? I thought they did that in the book category?!?

YES. For example, DVD's have a maximum shipping/handling charge of $3.00. The system won't let you charge more unless you specifically go into the shipping calculator and designate that you have a bigger than normal DVD (like a box set).

 

[nyc3]

Are you that ignorant to think that mailing 55 packages takes 10-20 minutes? 55 packages will take over an hour just to print the labels alone, let alone packing the cards, taping the labels, and getting them to the PO. I can tell that you don't sell much, because you are clueless. I don't understand why novices come on here and act like experts.

Also, do you pay exact shipping when you purchase from Best Buy, Home shopping network, macys, etc? Of course you don't! You pay for shipping at 99.9% of businesses. You might get free shipping if the item is over $50 or $100. I would gladly offer free shipping on any item over $50, but Ebay does NOT ALLOW YOU to put stipulations on your auctions such as this.


Get a clue

#1 My printer prints in the area of 44ppm. Thats pages per minute. And 4 nights ago I shipped something like 50 items in a half hour. And these where different weights sizes etc. So yes I do think you can.

#2 I have a pretty decent amount of ebay feedback over several accounts. Maybe 4,000 selling so while not mind blowing its not novice by any means. Not sure how thats relevant to any of my points but ok.

#3 You are not best buy home shopping or macys who employ a shipping department so I am not sure why you now expect the same money as them. Do you also pay a marketing department for your ebay sales?

Stop it

 

[bowmanchromeandorr]

i went to ebay last night to check my dsr's last night while i was checking my auctions for any questions. luckily, so far my dsr's are all 4.9+ save a 4.89 for the top one with zero 1's or 2's so hopefully i can maintain this and not get kicked off for two morons who or may not pop up.

 

[KUHawk]

I'd be interested to see what percentage the people who got suspended had for low (1 or 2) DSR ratings, not the rating itself, but the percentage of low scores as it would seem that perhaps that percentage is the deciding factor of who gets suspended.

 

[mgar26]

hey KUHawk, here is the percents

4.97 = 0.09% (1)
4.96 = 0.18% (2)
4.96 = 0.00% (0)
4.67 = 1.87% (21)

 

[mgar26]

forgot to add, had zero 1s or 2s in the past month.

 

[KUHawk]

Interesting Mgar. Now it would be interesting to see if

a) Anyone below 1.87% was also banned or
b) If anyone over 1.87% is NOT banned

I'm guessing there may be a baseline percentage they used as their criteria (say 1.5%) that was the cut line as to who got suspended or not. Of course without further data it's all speculation.

 

[reljac]

Interesting Mgar. Now it would be interesting to see if

a) Anyone below 1.87% was also banned or
b) If anyone over 1.87% is NOT banned

I'm guessing there may be a baseline percentage they used as their criteria (say 1.5%) that was the cut line as to who got suspended or not. Of course without further data it's all speculation.

The seller dashboard lists baseline percentages:
1%
1%
2%
2%

 

[jcmint]

excellent post

to answer Tom Oates, i charged $2.99 and .50 for additional. point is, if buyer does not agree or like the shipping charges, they should not bid. and again, i was not left negative for any transactions, just low dsr scores which should not affect anything since it is only someones opinion. i got banned based on the opinions of 21 buyers who left low dsr scores for me as well as positive feedback. that makes sense.

just playing devils' adv. here, but if I bought 5 cards from you and you charged me $4.99 s&h.
if I get the mailer and see it cost you $1.47 to ship, that's when a buyer has every right to give a less than 5 DSR

doesn't make eBay's actions right, but I get tired of all this "you knew the shipping charges" BS

First I realize you are playing devils advocate.

But if you read the auction and knew you were going to pay $4.99 shipping and handling then why? You don't know how the seller arrives at those charges.

Personally I spend quite a bit of time packaging each of my items, large scale operations like 4sc probably has staff that assists in packing and have to pay them a salary. Time is not free, nor are the bubble mailers, nor are the hard plastics, nor are the penny sleeves, nor is the ink to print the label, nor is the paper to print the label, nor is the tape to package the item, I cut up cardboard boxes for additional protection and those aren't free either.

In regards to my time packaging said item, gas to take it to the post office, etc. It's not free, I really don't understand why the buyers feel they have right to question shipping pricing, when stated in the auction. I even go as far to state in my auction how that they will be shipped in bubble mailers. And although I allow for 3 days handling time before I ship, I generally stay up late (even though I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old at home) in order to get peoples packages out next day after payment.

I mean the title is shipping and HANDLING Charges
from dictionary.com "3. a. the process by which a commodity is packaged, transported, etc b. ( as modifier ): handling charges"

Yet despite all that I have been dinged on shipping charges (not low DSR, but still not a 5).


Buyers are apparently so ignorant sometimes they think that shipping & HANDLING charges are the same thing as shipping charges and ding your auction accordingly.