"It's not fair..." by Craig Biggio

[predatorkj]

I love the quote "it's not fair". Where did that come from? Certainly not the article you referenced. But, I suppose it fits right in with your reckless posts.

Oh, Biggio said it. It was also quoted in the Houston chronicle. No crap being pulled here. Biggio felt it was unfair for clean players to be lumped together with unclean players.

Btw, for what it's worth, the reason none of the Astros have been linked is because none of the local writers will even attempt to dig. None. But Justice had a point. He pretty much said in one form or another that when your livelihood is based on being able to get the inside scoop and interviews, you don't want to throw anyone under the bus. If you do, you lose the respect of the whole club house and you're screwed. It's not like New York down here. It's much more laid back media wise.

 

[David T.]

I've never understood or agreed with players being voted in after several years of voting.
What happens to suddenly make that player "worthy" of the HOF?
Yes I'm a huge Biggio fan, but to be honest I've believed the HOF to be less relevent more and more each year.
And that started several years ago, not just since Biggio was shafted.
David

 

[homerun28aa]

Didn't read every single post, but read most of them and thought I'd quickly give my opinion since I think I'm in between two sides of the spectrum on the board.

I wouldn't completely agree that it's either first ballot or never. The writers have arbitrarily made a "first ballot HOFer". Some of you guys seem to believe that only those first ballot HOFers belong. I think the lack of guidelines in voting for HOFers should definitely be addressed and I also believe that the fans of the game and the managers should have a say rather than just the writers. Maybe the managers can count for 5% and fans can count for 3-4% something like that I haven't thought it out of course but that's a suggestion.

Also, why the hell would someone like Palmiero who got 8.5% still be on the vote for next year? Why is the cutoff 5%, if someone only got 6% of the HOF vote one year there's no way he should ever be considered again. Perhaps keeping Clemens and Bonds on the list is good even if they're not voted in year one, maybe more info will come out about them and their involvement in the steroid era.

That brings me to my last point, the writers are extremely inconsistent. Palmiero had something like 560 HRs and over 3000 hits. Him, Pete Rose, and Biggio right now are the only players in MLB history with 3000 hits who aren't in the HOF, who are eligible (Rose of course is banned). Why was Palmiero only given 8.5% of the vote and Bonds had almost 40%? I know Bonds broke records but the fact of the matter is, BOTH Bonds AND Palmiero are not in because of their steroid involvement BOTH Bonds and Palmiero without any doubt have HOF numbers. So if they're both in numbers wise why didn't the writers treat them equally? If as a writer you're view of the athlete is tainted by the steroid era, you vote both Palmiero and Bonds out based on that and vise versa if you think they're in because they have clear HOF numbers, you vote them both in. I think the fact that over 150 writers voted yes to Bonds and no to Palmiero speaks very badly about just how arbitrary and flawed the HOF voting system is.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

I love the quote "it's not fair". Where did that come from? Certainly not the article you referenced. But, I suppose it fits right in with your reckless posts.

My "reckless posts"?

Trainwrecks perhaps, but hardly reckless.

And for confirmation, I believe Biggio is a HOFer...the sole issue was the whining about it being "unfair."




Posted by witchcraft, voodoo and technological kung fu.

 

[Super Mario]

Funny how the guys who did come out and say something about it were crucified in the media. Canseco and Caminetti came out and said what was up and they were called every name in the book. Who the hell wants that headache?

Pettitte and Giambi just game out and admitted it, and they're still involved in the game. People are just killing the people who lied about it, to be honest.

 

[tunahead]

While I can half-heartedly applaud someone like Frank Thomas, I can also view his desire to be tested as an idle threat...knowing full well that he'd never have the union's blessing.

As for Biggio and the rest of the "unfair" crowd...partial responsibility is warranted.

It's no different than if any of us chose the go in business with thieves or thugs. Regardless of who we are, unless we clearly buck the trend and overcompensate for our partners...we get lumped in the same negative perception.

Totally straight-laced, but all of your friends are "the stoners", you're perceived as a stoner as well. You have the ability to chose and make changes...if you do nothing, you have to accept the perception. But most certainly it's not "unfair" as Biggio will claim.

Biggio may or may not have used, that's totally unimportant...but by doing nothing, and knowing what the era was being called...he did nothing. It's on him.

Accept your fate Craigers and you'll probably get in next season.



Posted by witchcraft, voodoo and technological kung fu.

You keep making it sound like Biggio was whining about it being unfair... I think you are blowing that a bit out of proportion. He said it was kind of unfair, it was most likely in response to a reporter asking him a question. The article even says "Later, he seemed to tire of the incessant questions about whether being on the ballot with players linked to steroids kept him out of the Hall of Fame this year."

I think you need to get off your high horse here.

 

[tunahead]

Ultimate Astros » Biggio takes near miss at Hall in stride

“I think it’s kind of unfair, but it’s the reality of the era that we played in,” Biggio said at Minute Maid Park. “Obviously, some guys are guilty, and other guys aren’t. It’s painful for the ones that weren’t. But the situation is what it is, and hopefully this thing will all pass and move on, and we’ll have something possibly good to talk about next year.”

And watch the video... boy he sure is whining...

 

[1st4040]

Biggio amassed stats over a solid career.. he will get in within the next couple years. The HOF IMO has lost alot of respect because of the fact its not so much about stats or impact on the game anymore as it is PED's or character(off the field). Many of the current HOF'er's definately have skeletions in the closet or maybe not so in the closet yet they were elected. To be honest I don't think a HOF election holds as much clout as it once did.. its definately been cheapened over the last few years with the borderline good players that have been voted in.

The PED era IMO saved baseball in many ways.. thus why MLB and the media never made a big deal about players being juiced up. Its scorned by writers and voters now because of the moral issues they looked past years ago and how the world views this as "cheating". Honestly who really cares?? if moral fiber was the key to the hall then there are more than a handful of current HOF'ers that shouldn't be there either because they didn't exactly live or play the game "the right way" either.

 

[notjomommasclint]

Keep hearing the steroid era from everyone.. Media, collectors, players, everyone.. There has been a steroid era since at least 1973. Why aren't the players inducted since then held to the same scrutiny? Also if a player is in good standing with the league (name on ballot) and their numbers dictate it why not do the right thing and put them in? After all te media has known this was going on for 40 years.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...uDYuAw&sig=AHIEtbScv84Nk4UTmFlm7j70cY8ykJtDAg

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Keep hearing the steroid era from everyone.. Media, collectors, players, everyone.. There has been a steroid era since at least 1973. Why aren't the players inducted since then held to the same scrutiny? Also if a player is in good standing with the league (name on ballot) and their numbers dictate it why not do the right thing and put them in? After all te media has known this was going on for 40 years.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...uDYuAw&sig=AHIEtbScv84Nk4UTmFlm7j70cY8ykJtDAg

Even if this is true, the voters are rightfully saying all cheating is definitely not the same. And really, why should it be?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Biggio amassed stats over a solid career.. he will get in within the next couple years. The HOF IMO has lost alot of respect because of the fact its not so much about stats or impact on the game anymore as it is PED's or character(off the field). Many of the current HOF'er's definately have skeletions in the closet or maybe not so in the closet yet they were elected. To be honest I don't think a HOF election holds as much clout as it once did.. its definately been cheapened over the last few years with the borderline good players that have been voted in.

The PED era IMO saved baseball in many ways.. thus why MLB and the media never made a big deal about players being juiced up. Its scorned by writers and voters now because of the moral issues they looked past years ago and how the world views this as "cheating". Honestly who really cares?? if moral fiber was the key to the hall then there are more than a handful of current HOF'ers that shouldn't be there either because they didn't exactly live or play the game "the right way" either.

How do you know whether character, integrity, sportsmanship, etc weren't in voters minds before the steroid era? Can you prove anything's changed? Are all cheating offenses completely equal? If so, why should they be?

Besides, from the HOF's point of view it doesn't matter if regular MLB players cheated or not - these regular guys aren't in contention for the HOF.

 

[BiggioBrooks755]

The HOF has turned into the Hall of Very good

 

[elmalo]

Pettitte and Giambi just game out and admitted it, and they're still involved in the game. People are just killing the people who lied about it, to be honest.

Pettitte got caught, said he did it only those times and than got caught again and so oh yeah, it was only those times. Giambi denied it until he was caught. And I was referring to the guys who spoke up about it being a problem in baseball, Cam and Canseco werent caught, they came out and said baseball has a serious problem and they were crucified for it. This is what people think Biggio should have done.

 

[elmalo]

Even if this is true, the voters are rightfully saying all cheating is definitely not the same. And really, why should it be?

Steroids have been a part of baseball since the late 60's, and are still a huge part of the game,

 

[A_Pharis]

Moral of the story? Context means a lot when it comes to quotations.