"Loved" vintage cards vs. "high grade"

[ThoseBackPages]

I don't know about you guys, but there is something to lower graded rookie cards that has a lot of appeal to me vs the same card in "high grade"

I realize that the high grade means more money, but when looking at vintage cards as a whole, they were MEANT to be "used" back in the day.

My Bench rookie is in a bbt 4 slab and i love it. It has rounded corners, but nothing else "wrong" with it. If it could talk, it would tell the story of its original owner, who more likely then not loved it, and didn't just lock it away, never to be enjoyed.

Now,, don't get me wrong, im not talking about beat to hell cards, but nice low graded examples.

Just wanted to get a discussion going about this, and perhaps see some nice cards

 

[scotty21690]

I do enjoy the "loved" vintage cards, as long as their is no paper loss on the front. I will take a nice Red Sox vintage card in ANY condition, as long as it has nice eye appeal. I have vintage that ranges from Poor to NM-MT, love them all in their own way. Vintage cards shouldn't be in pristine condition, they should be able to tell a story. I do understand why high grade vintage fetches so much of a premium though.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

To me its like records, I'll take some surface static over a pristine copy for just about anything. Sure, I have t replace my needles more often, but I'll take the added "warmth" of a played record versus a show piece.

 

[jay1065]

Did somebody say loved?

 

[fkw]

Very true.

Vintage cards that show good honest wear were loved for many many hours.
NRMT+/MINT examples not so, many were "lost" very early on, either stored away in attics, closets or even lost tucked into an old book (Ive picked up a couple that were said to be discovered that way), or worst of all never removed from its original package until many many years later (WTH?).

There was no protection for vintage cards that wanted to be played with..... Rubber bands, shoeboxes was the way to go, or with me my old metal Speed Racer luchbox. I would keep my cards in order by team double rubber band them tight so they wouldnt slip out, and meet my friends for epic trading sessions. We would even bet cards when we played wiffleball (I dominated so have to offer better cards just to get kids to play), or even watching a MLB game. Oh the stress when you would put up a G/VG Rose Rookie against a slightly worse 1966 Mays..... even back in the late 70's I didnt see those (1960s) cards too often where I lived, younger families in newer homes rarely had older cards. I remember trading about 30-40 (handful) of brand new sharp 1978 Topps All Star Player cards for a beat up 1970 Reggie Jackson with spider creases, I had never seen one before and just had to have it. Condition... who cared, I loved the older cards even with a dozen pinholes in the face such as my first Mays card did (1968T), it was previously owned by a kid that was a Dodger fan.
The most worthless cards were the multiplayer "rookie" cards (ie Ryan/Koosman), and the checklist cards, ........best cards was any with the ALL STAR emblem on it. Kelloggs cards held good value too where I was, Hostess not so...

I didnt even care about condition until I got one of them small pocket price guides about 1980 or so.

The key in last 35 years was the plastic pages, and now top loaders, slabs, screwdowns, and even the penny sleeves, etc.
Modern cards can be enjoyed now without the wear, its not the same, but I guess the cards now are not the same, they actually hold "value" the second they are "pulled" (hate that term). Vintage (even PreWar) cards had no real value, maybe a few pennies each as listed in the original ACC.

Good old days!

 

[TBTwinsFan]

That's what my focus of my '58 Topps set is... give it a raw, loving feel to it... the way cards were meant to be.

 

[Guest]

When I was finishing up high school and got into pre-war vintage I bought a lot of 'loved' cards. In retrospect, it was a mistake, and I'm now debating how to deal with them.

As someone who is transitioning into an 'advanced' collector I can now tell you that quality is more important than quantity when I look at my collection. Yes, I still do buy 'loved' cards, but these are exceptionally rare cards such as an N300 Delahanty or an M110 Cobb.

I remember back in 1999 when I got my first T206, a beater Tris Speaker for about $70, my dealer scolded me, "if you could have been a little more patient, paid a little more, you could have gotten a nice one." He was right, but at the time I was just so thrilled to own a T206 legend.

I've come up with a new system that helps me. Yes, it's based on book value. Yes, book value has lost it's meaning. But it's still a good reference point.

Pre-War
$7501+ (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's a 1 PR.
$2501-$7500 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 2 GOOD.
$1001-$2500 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 3 VG.
$501-$1000 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 4 VG/EX.
$251-$500 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 5 EX.
-$250 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 6 EX/MT.

Post-War (till 79)
$7501+ (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's a 2 GOOD.
$2501-$7500 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 3 VG.
$1001-$2500 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 4 VG/EX.
$501-$1000 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 5 EX.
$251-$500 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 6 EX/MT.
-$250 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 7 NM.

1980s... 8 NM/MT
1990s-Present... 9 MINT

It keeps things sensible for me.

Here's a classic example.

What I bought in 2001 before the system.

What I bought in 2011 with the system.

Much happier with the quality 3 VG Mathewson, even though I could have had 3 of the PR Mathewsons for the price of the single VG one.

 

[scotty21690]

I remember back in 1999 when I got my first T206, a beater Tris Speaker for about $7

Good choice, Chris.

 

[Guest]

I remember back in 1999 when I got my first T206, a beater Tris Speaker for about $7

Good choice, Chris.

In retrospect, it'd have been better if I'd been a little more patient, waited, and gotten this.

 

[scotty21690]

Yes, a lot better looking than mine. But the way I see it, I can obtain all of the vintage cards I need in affordable condition and then upgrade later on.

 

[Guest]

Yes, a lot better looking than mine. But the way I see it, I can obtain all of the vintage cards I need in affordable condition and then upgrade later on.

That was my plan when I was younger. But unfortunately it's much more difficult than I thought it would be, which has caused me to look back at most of my early purchases with regret. I look at my three off-condition Lajoie T-cards as an example, and wish that instead I had been more patient and saved for a single mid-grade example. I'd be feeling a lot better about my collection today if I had.

As I've begun to develop the resources to be more selective and discerning with my picks, I surely wish I had the sense to have bought one nice card a month, instead of one off card a week. Quality is certainly better than quantity.

It's hard to image that there are perhaps fifty years left to collect, and even with a modest income the ability to put $500,000 into your collection during that span.

 

[Graymouse]

I would think the main point is to collect what you want to collect and in what condition you want to collect it in. I have some pre-war Braves cards that are not higher then PSA 4 or SGC 5. Of course I could save up and get a nice mid-grade T205 or T206 but instead I am more focused on 1950's cards that are in PSA 7 grade. Again its what each individuals personal preference that should determine in what condition you want your cards in.

However in todays world of thieves and scammers, I much prefer to keep all my vintage cards in slabs of the respectable third party grading companies of course that is just me. I do sometimes free the cards of their plastic prisons just to feel and smell the old cardboard . There is no smell in the world then old vintage cardboard! :ugeek:

 

[casmith12]

I perfer the beaten up stuff. To me collecting the name comes first. If the card is beaten up thats ok with me, just as long as I can see a picture and read the name!

 

[mchenrycards]

I perfer the beaten up stuff. To me collecting the name comes first. If the card is beaten up thats ok with me, just as long as I can see a picture and read the name!

Lets revive this thread.

I dont mind a loved vintage card as I know I will never be able to afford the high grade stuff. I am currently putting together raw sets of cards I collected as a kid (72 to 77 Topps baseball) and nice corners are nice but centering is what i really look for.

 

[cgilmo]

When I was finishing up high school and got into pre-war vintage I bought a lot of 'loved' cards. In retrospect, it was a mistake, and I'm now debating how to deal with them.

As someone who is transitioning into an 'advanced' collector I can now tell you that quality is more important than quantity when I look at my collection. Yes, I still do buy 'loved' cards, but these are exceptionally rare cards such as an N300 Delahanty or an M110 Cobb.

I remember back in 1999 when I got my first T206, a beater Tris Speaker for about $70, my dealer scolded me, "if you could have been a little more patient, paid a little more, you could have gotten a nice one." He was right, but at the time I was just so thrilled to own a T206 legend.

I've come up with a new system that helps me. Yes, it's based on book value. Yes, book value has lost it's meaning. But it's still a good reference point.

Pre-War
$7501+ (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's a 1 PR.
$2501-$7500 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 2 GOOD.
$1001-$2500 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 3 VG.
$501-$1000 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 4 VG/EX.
$251-$500 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 5 EX.
-$250 (6 EX/MT) I'll buy a card that's 6 EX/MT.

Post-War (till 79)
$7501+ (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's a 2 GOOD.
$2501-$7500 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 3 VG.
$1001-$2500 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 4 VG/EX.
$501-$1000 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 5 EX.
$251-$500 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 6 EX/MT.
-$250 (7 NM) I'll buy a card that's 7 NM.

1980s... 8 NM/MT
1990s-Present... 9 MINT

It keeps things sensible for me.

Here's a classic example.

What I bought in 2001 before the system.

What I bought in 2011 with the system.

Much happier with the quality 3 VG Mathewson, even though I could have had 3 of the PR Mathewsons for the price of the single VG one.

lol, Levy

 

[TNP777]

Give me well-loved vintage any day. More affordable for sure, and if only they could talk! I'd love see behind the eyes of the kids that collected "back in the day". What was Johnny thinking when he wrote or did "that" to the card? How long was that Willie Stargell in Sam's back pocket? How about the cool noise that 1960 Mantle made in Jimmy's spokes?

I collect for the pure joy of collecting. If it came down to how much my card was going to be worth down the road, I don't think I'd be in the hobby any longer.

 

[SilverandBlack]

I collect pre war cards and am currently working on the diamond stars set and slowly working on the t206 set. I find the grading on t206 cards to be all over the place I have a lot of psa 1 cards that look like 3's and 4's and some 3's and 4' that look like 1's. I'll take a decent 1 or 2 any day they are affordable and look pretty decent if you look around.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

Oh hell yes I will take a "loved" card any day of the week over high grade. While I appreciate the high grade stuff, it's just not for me. I've always loved antiques and just "old stuff" in general, especially when it looks like it's been used. That to me adds a lot of character and stories that are far more valuable to me than a card that looks untouched. Along with that, you can buy some great looking graded cards anyway that sell at reasonable prices because people are more interested in the label anyway. I've got a T206 Johnson Portrait, graded poor, that has the rounded corners and whatnot but is centered and just looks great in the front. The unique part for me, and what caused it to get the poor grade in the first place, is that it has paper loss on the center-back. Meaning, someone had it in a scrap book at some point in time which I find to be interesting.

 

[mchenrycards]

Oh hell yes I will take a "loved" card any day of the week over high grade. While I appreciate the high grade stuff, it's just not for me. I've always loved antiques and just "old stuff" in general, especially when it looks like it's been used. That to me adds a lot of character and stories that are far more valuable to me than a card that looks untouched. Along with that, you can buy some great looking graded cards anyway that sell at reasonable prices because people are more interested in the label anyway. I've got a T206 Johnson Portrait, graded poor, that has the rounded corners and whatnot but is centered and just looks great in the front. The unique part for me, and what caused it to get the poor grade in the first place, is that it has paper loss on the center-back. Meaning, someone had it in a scrap book at some point in time which I find to be interesting.

We have some great vintage collectors on this board and it would be nice to see some scans. I would love to see your (pardon the wording) T206 Johnson as well as SilverandBlack's Diamond Stars and T206's. Scans would be great and I bet there is a whole generation of people on this board that have never seen quality vintage like you guys have in your collections.

 

[mchenrycards]

Give me well-loved vintage any day. More affordable for sure, and if only they could talk! I'd love see behind the eyes of the kids that collected "back in the day". What was Johnny thinking when he wrote or did "that" to the card? How long was that Willie Stargell in Sam's back pocket? How about the cool noise that 1960 Mantle made in Jimmy's spokes?

I collect for the pure joy of collecting. If it came down to how much my card was going to be worth down the road, I don't think I'd be in the hobby any longer.

It is funny as I do the same thing. I hold a card in my hand and imagine the kid who pulled it from the pack and wonder where that card and the kid who pulled it went. I know what I did with my cards as an eight year old and I always wonder if the kids from past generations, whose card I am holding did the same things with their "treasures" as I did with mine.