Panini opens a box of Pinnacle - This saved me some money

[PoseyBuster]

My whole point is that, without MLB logos, Topps comes even with Panini and Leaf and Upper Deck; maybe a little better because of history, but they fall. And it would be a BIG fall. People collected Upper Deck for decades; then they lost their MLB license and that was it for them. The same thing happened with Donruss after 2005. Unique just doesn't want to admit that. He'd rather take the stance that MLB logos only matter to us dirty, immoral prospectors (proving he has zero clue how prospectors make money, but I digress); he says this because he takes every opportunity he can to troll an angle he thinks is anti-prospecting/money-making in the hobby.

How the hell did you get all of those cards stolen from you?

 

[hive17]

How the hell did you get all of those cards stolen from you?

Someone broke into my house and made off with a laundry-bag's-worth. I got a bunch of them back. That part of my photobucket is a little out-of-date.

 

[PoseyBuster]

Someone broke into my house and made off with a laundry-bag's-worth. I got a bunch of them back. That part of my photobucket is a little out-of-date.

That still hella sucks. They musta knew what to look for cuz they grabbed some goodies! Unless you just have SOOOO many goodies like that....they grabbed a small portion that was littered with some goodies?

 

[rsmath]

But you give them a license to put logos on their cards and I think the gloves come off. In a weird way, maybe topps knows this and is simply trying to relax during the calm before the storm. Maybe they figure one of these manufacturers is going to get a license and topps will be on their top toes for a while so they are saving their best for that time.

so in other words don't worry about topps becoming innovative and they'll continue turning out the S.O.S. until 2020 because they won't have to worry until then about being on their toes when Panini and Leaf have a puncher's chance of getting a MLBP license?

 

[Mighty Bombjack]

I didn't bother opening this thread until now, as I knew there had to be a reason that it reached five pages.

For whatever it is worth, I am the furthest thing from a prospector and I won't touch a product without logos. Cards without them just look bad to me.

I just busted a box of 2013 Topps Series 1 jumbo on a lark. I kinda wish MLB would stop issuing a license to any manufacturer, as I would never buy wax at all. On the other hand, I would not be against issuing it out at will a la the MLBPA.

I hope there is enjoyment for those purchasing this product. I won't be one of them.

 

[predatorkj]

so in other words don't worry about topps becoming innovative and they'll continue turning out the S.O.S. until 2020 because they won't have to worry until then about being on their toes when Panini and Leaf have a puncher's chance of getting a MLBP license?

Don't worry? Hardly. I think we should all demand that they do due diligence with the license they have. This is not directed at you but what I think happens is a lot of people live in this fairy tale world where they think topps cares or is some really do good company. They are in to making money. They are a business. As long as people buy their product, they don't care about anything else. That's just how it is. It doesn't make them a bad company. It just makes them like every other company in business. In all honesty, you shouldn't be fooled into thinking otherwise. Now, give them a reason to amp up their efforts and the threat of losing business and you'll see them make the necessary moves. As of right now, they give the hobby just enough to keep us somewhat happy. Because people will buy regardless.

 

[PoseyBuster]

Don't worry? Hardly. I think we should all demand that they do due diligence with the license they have. This is not directed at you but what I think happens is a lot of people live in this fairy tale world where they think topps cares or is some really do good company. They are in to making money. They are a business. As long as people buy their product, they don't care about anything else. That's just how it is. It doesn't make them a bad company. It just makes them like every other company in business. In all honesty, you shouldn't be fooled into thinking otherwise. Now, give them a reason to amp up their efforts and the threat of losing business and you'll see them make the necessary moves. As of right now, they give the hobby just enough to keep us somewhat happy. Because people will buy regardless.

People have been actively demanding it since 2006......its only gotten worse.

 

[predatorkj]

People have been actively demanding it since 2006......its only gotten worse.

And it will continue to do so. How the hell MLB figured they made less money with more companies is beyond me but apparently they felt that way.

 

[rsmath]

And it will continue to do so. How the hell MLB figured they made less money with more companies is beyond me but apparently they felt that way.

I imagine an exclusivity premium might have been a reason you can make more money in MLBP licensing with one company than several.

(in a very simplified example with grossly undervalued dollar amounts to real life)...Imagine if you have 3 companies that pay $1,000 each for MLBP trading card licensing for one season. If the licensing deals are up for renewal at the same rate for the next season and you tell one of them they can be exclusive for a $5,000 premium in addition to the season rate, you could have $3,000 in licensing from the 3 companies for the upcoming season or $6,000 from one company for the
new season because one of the companies decided they would pay an exclusivity premium since the exclusive company felt sales might be better for their logo'ed product than their inferior logoless competitors and thus they could charge more for their products with possible increased profit margins per release because of the logo advantage.

 

[predatorkj]

I imagine an exclusivity premium might have been a reason you can make more money in MLBP licensing with one company than several.

(in a very simplified example with grossly undervalued dollar amounts to real life)...Imagine if you have 3 companies that pay $1,000 each for MLBP trading card licensing for one season. If the licensing deals are up for renewal at the same rate for the next season and you tell one of them they can be exclusive for a $5,000 premium in addition to the season rate, you could have $3,000 in licensing from the 3 companies for the upcoming season or $6,000 from one company for the
new season because one of the companies decided they would pay an exclusivity premium since the exclusive company felt sales might be better for their logo'ed product than their inferior logoless competitors and thus they could charge more for their products with possible increased profit margins per release because of the logo advantage.

Fair. But why not just up the fees for all three companies. Isn't that what most business would do? To me, I'd see that happening before anything else. And if I recall, they were saying it was because there were just too many card based products out there which was hurting sales. How that directly affects the MLB, I'm not sure. I guess they get a cut of all sales? In any case, cutting the amount of products allowed could have been done and all three companies could still be around.

 

[rsmath]

And if I recall, they were saying it was because there were just too many card based products out there which was hurting sales. How that directly affects the MLB, I'm not sure. I guess they get a cut of all sales? In any case, cutting the amount of products allowed could have been done and all three companies could still be around.

That "too many products" was just MLBP smoke and mirrors, IMHO. Yes, they could just cut the number of products released per manufacturer if that was a real reason for needing to cut 2-3 companies down to one exclusive license.

It certainly "smooths" over the hobby better to blame number of products in the trading card marketplace rather than looking greedy by saving the truth of "MLBP receives much more in licensing fees from a Topps exclusive license than from potential licensing fees from Topps, UD, Panini, Leaf combined."

 

[predatorkj]

That "too many products" was just MLBP smoke and mirrors, IMHO. Yes, they could just cut the number of products released per manufacturer if that was a real reason for needing to cut 2-3 companies down to one exclusive license.

It certainly "smooths" over the hobby better to blame number of products in the trading card marketplace rather than looking greedy by saving the truth of "MLBP receives much more in licensing fees from a Topps exclusive license than from potential licensing fees from Topps, UD, Panini, Leaf combined."

Yes but again, why not just up the fees? Would the companies have had much choice? Yes the choice would have been there but I think if you are having to scramble to make a decent looking product and you constantly have to worry about accidentally showing logos or you have to airbrush every single photo, it would be a pain in the butt. Plus, everyone knows logos sell better than no logos. No logos will still sell. But I don't think anyone would have wanted to be the odd man out. Upper Deck thought they would push the envelope with their 2010 baseball release and still wound up in hot water. They've probably never spent so much effort in base card design since 1989. You can even see it with some other companies where they try to get a pose that obscures the logos so that they can do as little as possible to the picture to make it pass. It's a pain.

 

[AmishDave]

I bought the JJ auto outta Pinnacle. Looks terrible, but JJ is on it, thus, I will purchase it. Waiting for the AP Auto to show up now.

 

[BBCgalaxee]

Sold out of all my initial boxes today and nearly everyone said they liked it.

The biggest compliments went to the inserts and how cool they are.

I even have a guy who opens only bowman do a box solely because of the inserts. And after he finished the box, wanted another and said he was going to make a few of the insert sets, something he hasn't done since mid 90s.

And as I thought, the autos are terrible ( best was a griffey and Bundy) but the inserts are what really sells it along with the tons of rookies a box.

Sent from my HTCONE using Freedom Card Board mobile app

 

[morgoth]

It's 80 bucks a box at my lcs in Indy and 75 at my lcs in albany, neither has moved more than 3 boxes total. Both feel like they are going to end up having to blow them out or bundle them into group rips to get rid of them