These came in the store so I bought them

[MartinFFcollector]

Stolen- Put "HOT" in the title
Faked- Put "UNIQUE" in the title
and you're covered.
I kid.

 

[homerun28aa]

As more food for thought.......So what makes for legitimate means for a product to hit the streets WAAAY after the fact( 1996 Leaf Signature Extended Otis Nixon Autograph...No uproar) or the Original Donruss 1/1 Samples( slight uproar) and other products hitting the street after the fact and the discussion becomes a little more intense.. Current Discovered Donruss 1/1 Samples/Autographics/Rookie Premiere autos/Finest Gold refractors/ Bowman reds/other Gold refractors. What is the criteria for when it is OK for an after the fact product to hit the market or not OK? Just pondering. Any thoughts?

You kind of play it by year I think and look at the evidence. At least in this case, there doesn't seem to be a huge uproar. However, the evidence to me is an eBay seller in essentially the same geographic area as I understand the situation sells strictly sample Donruss cards, or 95% Donruss promo/sample cards. Add that he refused to say where the cards originated from, and continue with the terrible job of printing SAMPLE on the back of the TOTT Killer card. Even I have to admit that I don't think that came from a professional printer and I generally stay away from conspiracy theories.

And to answer someone else's question there is REAL value in these cards depending on the player. Just check that guy's completed listings player collectors will go all out for some of this stuff.

 

[highphat]

Is it just the word "SAMPLE" that has everyone worked up over these cards? Ask the custom card guys how much work it would take to create these cards. I guarentee you the time and effort and cost would not be worth the reward.

 

[Dilferules]

Which of these two scenarios is more likely?

1. A card faker goes through the extreme trouble of creating very accurate-looking memorabilia/auto cards, then doesn't put in a fake patch or auto and puts an amateur-looking "SAMPLE" on the back that any of us could have done a better job at.

2. A card manufacturer has to print hundreds of free sample cards for a licensing agency to look at, so they have an intern take 2 seconds to put "SAMPLE" on the back and he does a crappy job.

Creating fakes of those Leaf Limited cards especially would be very difficult with the holofoil fronts. The other option for them being fraudulent is that they did not originally have the "SAMPLE" on there and a faker added it then put gloss on top of it. Again, wouldn't they have done a better job if they were going through so much trouble to deceive people?

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Which of these two scenarios is more likely?

1. A card faker goes through the extreme trouble of creating very accurate-looking memorabilia/auto cards, then doesn't put in a fake patch or auto and puts an amateur-looking "SAMPLE" on the back that any of us could have done a better job at.

2. A card manufacturer has to print hundreds of free sample cards for a licensing agency to look at, so they have an intern take 2 seconds to put "SAMPLE" on the back and he does a crappy job.

Creating fakes of those Leaf Limited cards especially would be very difficult with the holofoil fronts. The other option for them being fraudulent is that they did not originally have the "SAMPLE" on there and a faker added it then put gloss on top of it. Again, wouldn't they have done a better job if they were going through so much trouble to deceive people?

Is there a third scenario, or is this closely related to your first scenario?:
3. Printer has all the original plates, negatives, positives, plans, etc to begin printing cards again and also has the stock necessary to do so. Printer starts the printing process up again without the card manufacturer's knowledge.

Granted I think this is a little far-fetched but certainly possible. Knowing what's been back doored over the years and knowing what security at printing places has been like over time, its easy to get concerned about an unscrupulous printer revving up the presses well after a product's been released without the card company's knowledge. Heck, Upper Deck knowingly did something like this with YuGiOh cards...

 

[cstmleather]

I don't think they're fake. Think what everyone is wondering is if they're backdoored with "sample" added for value or actual samples that were sent out. Not that hard for someone at a press shop to stash a few sheets for later use.

Atleast these have "SAMPLE" across the back so it should keep people from adding a serial number and trying to pass them off as pack pulled.

 

[Dilferules]

Is there a third scenario, or is this closely related to your first scenario?:
3. Printer has all the original plates, negatives, positives, plans, etc to begin printing cards again and also has the stock necessary to do so. Printer starts the printing process up again without the card manufacturer's knowledge.

Granted I think this is a little far-fetched but certainly possible. Knowing what's been back doored over the years and knowing what security at printing places has been like over time, its easy to get concerned about an unscrupulous printer revving up the presses well after a product's been released without the card company's knowledge. Heck, Upper Deck knowingly did something like this with YuGiOh cards...

If you mean like they printed these cards 6 years after they were made, I think that's unbelievably unlikely as I would imagine the costs and time to start up a new run, even if you have the plates and proper paper stock, would outweigh the money you'd get selling the cards. Especially because these are GU cards with die-cutting and multiple paper layers they have to stick together.

If you mean the printer printed up a few sheets to stash and added the "SAMPLE" themselves while the printing process was going on with zero knowledge of Donruss/Playoff...actually yeah that seems like a very likely scenario. Though it's hard to believe they would only surface in 2012/2013 if they were printed back in 2005 with ill intent. Maybe the owner of the printing company was a weirdo and liked to make the cards for himself, but he ran into financial trouble and started selling them, or he died, or the storage hunters bought his storage unit or something.

 

[homerun28aa]

Which of these two scenarios is more likely?

1. A card faker goes through the extreme trouble of creating very accurate-looking memorabilia/auto cards, then doesn't put in a fake patch or auto and puts an amateur-looking "SAMPLE" on the back that any of us could have done a better job at.

2. A card manufacturer has to print hundreds of free sample cards for a licensing agency to look at, so they have an intern take 2 seconds to put "SAMPLE" on the back and he does a crappy job.

Creating fakes of those Leaf Limited cards especially would be very difficult with the holofoil fronts. The other option for them being fraudulent is that they did not originally have the "SAMPLE" on there and a faker added it then put gloss on top of it. Again, wouldn't they have done a better job if they were going through so much trouble to deceive people?

I'd never suggest that someone made these from scratch, as that wouldn't make any sense since he could print cards far more valuable than sample cards. Of course the second option seems far likelier and assuming that's indeed what happened (which I highly, highly doubt still), then that begs the question of where this guy got all of these? The fact that he refused to disclose that information means that if they are 100% legit from the manufacturer and they are missing the COAs that sometimes are and sometimes aren't given when these cards are acquired straight from the manufacturer means that there is a reasonable chance that they were acquired illegally.

 

[Dilferules]

I'd never suggest that someone made these from scratch, as that wouldn't make any sense since he could print cards far more valuable than sample cards. Of course the second option seems far likelier and assuming that's indeed what happened (which I highly, highly doubt still), then that begs the question of where this guy got all of these? The fact that he refused to disclose that information means that if they are 100% legit from the manufacturer and they are missing the COAs that sometimes are and sometimes aren't given when these cards are acquired straight from the manufacturer means that there is a reasonable chance that they were acquired illegally.

I would assume that any sample cards provided to MLB properties have the proviso attached that they are not supposed to be released/sold to the public. Also, they would be property of the licensing organization, not any one person to take home and keep in their collection or sell. So obviously there are SOME shenanigans going on, as is the case to varying degrees with almost any cards that weren't supposed to be released.

 

[highphat]

Love them or hate them, I just picked these up to add to my TOTT collection (minus the Bagwell):

 

[petMonster]

I think Chris is 100% correct on this. These have quality control written all over them. All the dealer samples I've seen over the years have had memorabilia in them and a generally more polished look. Like this Spahn pictured below that I got from Kennesawsportscards (aka Dollarsportscards on eBay) last year (although I'm not exactly sure why the corner would be cut off). I've seen a bunch of 2005's emerge recently that have that more amateur looking, pixelated "SAMPLE" printed on them. My initial thought was that some faker printed it on those himself, but the ones I've seen were all non-GU (ebay seller romeoj12 has a few up right now), so it seemed more plausible that someone could fake them up in their basement. But now after seeing the '05 Timelines that Chris posted (which are way too elaborate for someone to cook up in their basement), and seeing that they also have that same cheesy pixelated "SAMPLE" printed on them, I can't believe that these were printed in any way other than by DLP during the initial printing phase. And since I doubt Donruss would have wanted to show these to an outside party due to the crudeness of some of these strange flaws (see the way-off-center serial number with the over-printed "SAMPLE" on the Killebrew page 1), I'm assuming they were just trying to figure some things out in the early stages of the printing process.

Otherwise, if I'm wrong then I could buy the scenario that extra sheets were printed and rather than getting thrown in the garbage as they should have been, they were stamped "SAMPLE" and someone snuck them out the back door. It doesn't necessarily make it illegal, although I can understand that you wouldn't want the world to know you are profiting off something your manager let you take home that SHOULD'VE been destroyed.

 

[petMonster]

Btw, does anybody here have any insight into card manufacturers' policies regarding discarded material from the printing process? When I worked at Circuit City years back we had promo CDs that we kept in the listening stations. The listening stations were designed in such a way that when you placed the CD case inside the little window, it would punch a little hole through the entire CD case, front to back. It was designed this way specifically so we could not turn around and profit from them (cuz who would want an old used CD in a damaged case, right?). We were supposed to destroy them but we boxed them up and stored them in the warehouse and after a few months the manager would let us go in back and take turns picking out the ones we wanted to keep. Again, not illegal, but not something we were supposed to go around and tell everyone.

Regarding sheets that weren't destined for the public for whatever reason, is it plausible that Donruss had some special, low-cost printer to add the word "SAMPLE" to stuff that they were going to destroy but figured they could give it to employees instead? And the crudeness of the "SAMPLE" stamp was just a measure to make sure the employees wouldn't be able to profit much off of this stuff?

Lastly...Chris, if you have any Spahn's in that bunch, please do let me know.

 

[therock2013]

Being new to freedomcardboard I thought this was a very interesting topic being that conspiring interest me...I questioned all this myself but just my thought on the 1/1 sample production cards but being these are just now showing up over 7 yrs after the production and several years after Donruss closing doors is not big deal why would these be sold right away when they are selling off all inventory(for smaller profit)? I do know that Donruss sold off tons product and items on auction and to friends at the time when Panini came in so maybe the seller of these just doesn't know the true origin of them and going on bits and pieces of info they received. Also they might not want anyone knowing where they obtained them from being anyone hunting for certain players collectors might try undercutting right to there source its the nature of business... I know from just selling a few Henderson cards in the past on Ebay several collectors message me to sell directly without posting so no other buyer has a chance. Not saying these are real but they seem legit and story knowing that everything produced is supposed to get signed off on liscensing and quality control probably wasn't an real issue on test run stuff. I messaged him about a Ripken error and few other nice cards that where listed a few weeks ago and seems to be a good dude just said he bought them from a friend that use to be big in card business retired that didnt want to bothered with selling cards anymore..

 

[petMonster]

NOOOOO!!!! I just missed out on the Warren Spahn you had listed, Chris. I wish you PM'd me about that...I would have offered you $50 for it. I knew it would go for less on eBay once you listed it, so I thought I would take my chances on auction, but I got busy and couldn't be around for the end of that. I guess we both lose this time.

Next time let me know when you get a rare Spahn card like that. Check the player collector list and you'll see me on there. And I offer good money to keep that stuff from going to auction mainly because I often miss auction closings.

If the guy doesn't pay, let me know. I'll still give you the $50.

 

[cgilmo]

NOOOOO!!!! I just missed out on the Warren Spahn you had listed, Chris. I wish you PM'd me about that...I would have offered you $50 for it. I knew it would go for less on eBay once you listed it, so I thought I would take my chances on auction, but I got busy and couldn't be around for the end of that. I guess we both lose this time.

Next time let me know when you get a rare Spahn card like that. Check the player collector list and you'll see me on there. And I offer good money to keep that stuff from going to auction mainly because I often miss auction closings.

If the guy doesn't pay, let me know. I'll still give you the $50.

I dont buy these solo.


The store rules that Ash and I have say its gotta go to ebay. Sorry man.

 

[ThoseBackPages]

NOOOOO!!!! I just missed out on the Warren Spahn you had listed, Chris. I wish you PM'd me about that...I would have offered you $50 for it. I knew it would go for less on eBay once you listed it, so I thought I would take my chances on auction, but I got busy and couldn't be around for the end of that. I guess we both lose this time.

Next time let me know when you get a rare Spahn card like that. Check the player collector list and you'll see me on there. And I offer good money to keep that stuff from going to auction mainly because I often miss auction closings.

If the guy doesn't pay, let me know. I'll still give you the $50.

www.gixen.com

 

[Lancemountain]

Hope you made a good profit on these!

 

[cgilmo]

Hope you made a good profit on these!

Meh...

No bueno

 

[allstars]

I dont buy these solo.


The store rules that Ash and I have say its gotta go to ebay. Sorry man.

Really? I'd think you'd handle each deal seperately & do what it takes to maximize profit. The rule in my shop is "Only Ebay as last resort".

Different strokes I guess...

 

[morgoth]

I hate walking into shops where there is nothing in the display cases but 3 yr old RC autos of failed prospects, overpriced non autos of newer prospects and VG to EXMT vintage by the thousands, and then when I look at the computer behind the register I see tons of high end RC autos and graded cards but when you ask about them they say, sorry that is our ebay pile.