You can't fight city hall- eBay protecting large sellers and shillers (probstein content)

[Luck15Hope]

He ends up with more than his fair share of fakes. The issue is that he may not be faking them, himself.

No the issue is not if or if not he is faking them himself. That is irrelevant. The issue is that he IS selling faked merchandise, despite the issue of who faked it, and eBay ALLOWS him to sell this faked merchandise despite having been provided evidence that the merchandise has been altered and therefore is a fake.

 

[A_Pharis]

No the issue is not if or if not he is faking them himself. That is irrelevant. The issue is that he IS selling faked merchandise, despite the issue of who faked it, and eBay ALLOWS him to sell this faked merchandise despite being providing evidence that the merchandise has been altered and therefore is a fake.

When you're consigning that quantity, I would imagine detailed background searches on cards is more difficult that wrangling consignee usernames.

 

[Luck15Hope]

When you're consigning that quantity, I would imagine detailed background searches on cards is more difficult that wrangling consignee usernames.

Again, you are not acknowledging the issue which I raise. The issue is that eBay allows the faked merchandise auctions to continue despite being provided evidence that they have been altered. The issue has nothing to do with Probstein catching the items as fakes before listing them.

Fact #1 - Probstein IS selling faked merchandise. Regardless of his knowledge of the card being a fake.
Fact #2 - Ebay allows these auctions of faked merchandise to continue despite being given evidence that the merchandise is altered and therefore fake. It is eBays job to prevent faked items from being sold, not Probsteins.

 

[homerun28aa]

Again, you are not acknowledging the issue which I raise. The issue is that eBay allows the faked merchandise auctions to continue despite being provided evidence that they have been altered. The issue has nothing to do with Probstein catching the items as fakes before listing them.

Fact #1 - Probstein IS selling faked merchandise. Regardless of his knowledge of the card being a fake.
Fact #2 - Ebay allows these auctions of faked merchandise to continue despite being given evidence that the merchandise is altered and therefore fake. It is eBays job to prevent faked items from being sold, not Probsteins.

If what you're saying is true that a minimum of 5 people reported this auction and eBay did not remove it is A) unacceptable as the evidence is black and white but B) surprising - because when this has been caught in the past eBay was good at removing things like this before it's sold. If we're saying there's a conspiracy because probstein sells a lot of stuff, I find that slightly hard to believe because at the end of the day he accounts for what, a fraction of a fraction of eBay's revenues? The fact of the matter is that this guy does not do his due diligence, which is somewhat understandable because like I've said he makes his living off this and does not want to deter any clients he can make a buck off of. This does come at a cost though because if I see an item I want that is being sold by probstein, 99% of the time I will look to see if this item is auctioned by other sellers because I literally assume at this point I'm getting shilled with him and paying 10-20% above the going rate. This has prevented me from bidding on dozens of his auctions. But again, if eBay is in fact allowing this given the blatant evidence then shame on them.

 

[jbhofmann]

No the issue is not if or if not he is faking them himself. That is irrelevant. The issue is that he IS selling faked merchandise, despite the issue of who faked it, and eBay ALLOWS him to sell this faked merchandise despite having been provided evidence that the merchandise has been altered and therefore is a fake.

eBay also allows numerous fake autographs that have legitimate PSA/DNA certification attached to them. This isn't eBay's fault. It's Joe Orlando's.

The circle goes on forever.

 

[Luck15Hope]

If what you're saying is true that a minimum of 5 people reported this auction and eBay did not remove it is A) unacceptable as the evidence is black and white but B) surprising - because when this has been caught in the past eBay was good at removing things like this before it's sold. If we're saying there's a conspiracy because probstein sells a lot of stuff, I find that slightly hard to believe because at the end of the day he accounts for what, a fraction of a fraction of eBay's revenues? The fact of the matter is that this guy does not do his due diligence, which is somewhat understandable because like I've said he makes his living off this and does not want to deter any clients he can make a buck off of. This does come at a cost though because if I see an item I want that is being sold by probstein, 99% of the time I will look to see if this item is auctioned by other sellers because I literally assume at this point I'm getting shilled with him and paying 10-20% above the going rate. This has prevented me from bidding on dozens of his auctions. But again, if eBay is in fact allowing this given the blatant evidence then shame on them.

I would like to challenge you to prove this bold statement, and I am not looking for you to prove it immediately. If you have the time, please follow future auctions where items are clearly fake, report them, and see whether or not eBay takes action. Also take notes on whether the seller of the faked merchandise was an average joe, mediocre seller, or an eBay high volume power seller. I have seen instances where eBay does take action and remove fake merchandise listings as well. However, unfortunately they were items listed by average joes and not from a "high volume power seller". Which is the issue at hand being that eBay protects the power sellers and does nothing about issues raised against them, for the most part.

 

[homerun28aa]

eBay also allows numerous fake autographs that have legitimate PSA/DNA certification attached to them. This isn't eBay's fault. It's Joe Orlando's.

The circle goes on forever.

This is a completely different issue altogether and in no way related to eBay though.

 

[homerun28aa]

I would like to challenge you to prove this bold statement, and I am not looking for you to prove it immediately. If you have the time, please follow future auctions where items are clearly fake, report them, and see whether or not eBay takes action. Also take notes on whether the seller of the faked merchandise was an average joe, mediocre seller, or an eBay high volume power seller. I have seen instances where eBay does take action and remove fake merchandise listings as well. However, unfortunately they were items listed by average joes and not from a "high volume power seller". Which is the issue at hand being that eBay protects the power sellers and does nothing about issues raised against them, for the most part.

Fair enough, I have no problem trying to keep track of these things as I've wanted to start cataloging fake patches anyways. I probably don't have enough knowledge to do this in areas aside from veteran/HOF MLB patches, but I have reported many - basically whenever I see something I know to be fake - and I've seen a lot of them taken down, some not taken down. I'll try to keep running track from now on.

 

[jbhofmann]

This is a completely different issue altogether and in no way related to eBay though.

Not really. It goes to show that mistakes happen and things slip through the cracks.

Would Rick's team sell an absolute ridiculous forgery? I highly doubt it. But they don't have time to comb over all the items.

My point was that the preferred eBay authenticator can't even guarantee their own work.

 

[homerun28aa]

Not really. It goes to show that mistakes happen and things slip through the cracks.

Would Rick's team sell an absolute ridiculous forgery? I highly doubt it. But they don't have time to comb over all the items.

My point was that the preferred eBay authenticator can't even guarantee their own work.

We have human error in every instance of life. Should you never buy meat at a local grocery store because you have a .00001% chance of getting sick from it?
I don't have an issue with PSA making a mistake in authentication, I would have an issue if PSA subsequently found out about their error and did nothing about it AND/OR continued making the same mistake over and over, which is in a nutshell what eBay is doing (if what's being reported by Luck15Hope is indeed true).

 

[ThoseBackPages]

i think its important to realize how TINY "sports cards" are in the eBay universe

 

[homerun28aa]

i think its important to realize how TINY "sports cards" are in the eBay universe

Exactly; there are cars, homes, businesses even that are frequently sold on eBay. This guy accounts for a fraction, of a fraction, of a fraction of their revenue.
I think this is more of eBay just failing to do their due diligence in going through complaints. In this situation, they did not act appropriately.

 

[jpruitt2]

Anyone tell me a good sniping site to use?

 

[RStadlerASU22]

Anyone tell me a good sniping site to use?

I've used Auction Sniper for all snipes . I only recall 1 non fired snipe. I'm good w it

Ryan

 

[Matsuicollector]

I won all 7, two for a very low price and the other 5 for about market average. .

This is the part where complaining about shilling runs into a problem in my opinion. It seems like you won all cards for at or below market price based on your statement and were happy with the prices. However, the difference between what you would have paid and what you were shilled for is likely not the true difference in what you would have ended up paying. Who's to say there wasn't someone else with snipes a few dollars less than the shill bidder that didn't go through because he was outbid? Sure the difference between the pre-shill and post-shill was ~$60, but you can't make the seller responsible for that because at prices around market value, it's likely that the items would have been bid up somewhat by others.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I never understood why anyone complains about this. Consigners don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to police. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.

 

[Lancemountain]

I never understood why anyone complains about this. Sellers don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to prove. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.

I didn't get them at fair market value. The true current market value was the amount before they were shilled. There is now a current market value that was inflated due to the shilling. How is this simple concept so difficult to grasp??

 

[Lancemountain]

it's likely that the items would have been bid up somewhat by others.

Oh, it's likely is it? How in gods name could you possibly say "it's likely"

Cards end at various prices everyday. But "it's likely" that these 7 cards, cards you don't even know what they are, were "likely " to have snipes and more bidders on them.

Give me a break.

 

[Luck15Hope]

This is the part where complaining about shilling runs into a problem in my opinion. It seems like you won all cards for at or below market price based on your statement and were happy with the prices. However, the difference between what you would have paid and what you were shilled for is likely not the true difference in what you would have ended up paying. Who's to say there wasn't someone else with snipes a few dollars less than the shill bidder that didn't go through because he was outbid? Sure the difference between the pre-shill and post-shill was ~$60, but you can't make the seller responsible for that because at prices around market value, it's likely that the items would have been bid up somewhat by others.

I never understood why anyone complains about this. Consigners don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to police. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.

You people who try to defend shilling as long as the card went for "market value", or trying to justify it by saying that the bidder bid his highest amount that he is willing to pay just make me laugh as there is NO justification for shilling in either of these circumstances. The thing is ANY form of shilling on eBay is against their policy and SHOULD NOT be tolerated, no matter whether the winning bidder was "comfortable" paying the price of his/her maximum bid or not. Here is the current eBay policy on shill bidding and the actions that can be taken against the members who condone shill bidding on their auctions. The point it appears the OP is trying to make is that even when presented with evidence of shilling, eBay failed to protect him based on their own policy's and refused to take action against the seller. In fact, helped him, by removing feedback left by the buyer who was unhappy with being shilled, despite whether or not he was "comfortable" or not paying the prices he won the auctions at. Again, ANY form of shilling is against eBay policy and should not be tolerated in any form. eBay's failure to enforce their own policy is the main concern and the main reason shilling is allowed to continue.

Our shill bidding policy is very simple:
Shill bidding is bidding by anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or onlineconnections—that artificially increases an item's price or apparent desirability. In addition, members can't bid on or buy items with the intent to artificially increase a seller's Feedback or to improve the item's search standing. Shill bidding is not allowed on eBay.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

• Listing cancellation
• Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
• Limits on account privileges
• Loss of PowerSeller status
• Account suspension
• Referral to Law Enforcement

 

[homerun28aa]

I never understood why anyone complains about this. Consigners don't care because it put more money in their pockets. eBay doesn't care because it puts more money in their pockets AND is often nearly impossible to police. In the end, you got 5 of your cards for fair market value and got 2 of them for below market. You just have to learn to be satisfied with that.

It's against eBay TOS. Should eBay not care when people violate their TOS? Agreed that the consigner will not care, but why should eBay not care when people break their TOS?