So what's the A&G fallout?

Now, obviously, Topps is saying Strassy is a short print (which makes my desire to bust retail significantly lessened). . . has anyone heard back from Topps individually?

Theoretically, if purchases were made based on their claims that Stras was not an SP, now he's an incredible SP, there ARE legal issues here. Not to sound like a sue happy attorney, but this is, to put it in terms you might understand, a bait and switch.

Class action lawsuit? Sign me up! I'll take the $4 or whatever that comes out of it 3 years from now in a settlement. Then take that $4 and buy me another pack of Allen & Ginter... :benson:

I bought 4 cases this year, but only busting 1 though, flipping the others since I got em cheap.

Jeff N. said:

Now, obviously, Topps is saying Strassy is a short print (which makes my desire to bust retail significantly lessened). . . has anyone heard back from Topps individually?

Theoretically, if purchases were made based on their claims that Stras was not an SP, now he's an incredible SP, there ARE legal issues here. Not to sound like a sue happy attorney, but this is, to put it in terms you might understand, a bait and switch.

Click to expand...

I thought an official bait and switch required advertisement that you were guaranteed a certain item. According to everyone's claims, they spoke with Topps reps who even stated they weren't sure and mostly just made up answers. That's not considered formal advertisement, is it? You would know waaaaayyyy better than me, but I'm just confused how it'd be considered a bait and switch situation.

Jeff N. said:

Now, obviously, Topps is saying Strassy is a short print (which makes my desire to bust retail significantly lessened). . . has anyone heard back from Topps individually?

Theoretically, if purchases were made based on their claims that Stras was not an SP, now he's an incredible SP, there ARE legal issues here. Not to sound like a sue happy attorney, but this is, to put it in terms you might understand, a bait and switch.

Click to expand...

People bought the product far before the announcement of the Strasburg addition or released checklist. To me, the addition of the Strasburg to the product was an extra incentive to bust, not a guarantee he will be in my boxes.

Why is everyone so bent-out-of-shape over this? It comes with the risk of busting a product.

So it is a short print? Yesterday their twitter said short print status was news to them?

bradical said:

Jeff N. said:

Now, obviously, Topps is saying Strassy is a short print (which makes my desire to bust retail significantly lessened). . . has anyone heard back from Topps individually?

Theoretically, if purchases were made based on their claims that Stras was not an SP, now he's an incredible SP, there ARE legal issues here. Not to sound like a sue happy attorney, but this is, to put it in terms you might understand, a bait and switch.

Click to expand...

People bought the product far before the announcement of the Strasburg addition or released checklist. To me, the addition of the Strasburg to the product was an extra incentive to bust, not a guarantee he will be in my boxes.

Why is everyone so bent-out-of-shape over this? It comes with the risk of busting a product.

Click to expand...

These people should NEVER go to a Casino.

"What the...? This game is CALLED Blackjack! This hand you dealt me is CLEARLY not a Blackjack! I'm gonna' make a post, damnit!"

No fall out. Everything was just speculation leading into the release. Just love Ginter Mania.

One thing is to be sure, quite a few have showed up on eBay now.

9 of them on the day after release day.

They can't be that rare.

[phil:3jlqxzt0]270600599553[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]230494034533[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]280528251143[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]110553643944[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]350371076579[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]320555973236[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]180527623864[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]200490044658[/phil:3jlqxzt0]
[phil:3jlqxzt0]160450862728[/phil:3jlqxzt0]

Stasburg mania is over anyway

especially after my Mets tune him up this weekend

BunchOBull said:

So it is a short print? Yesterday their twitter said short print status was news to them?

Click to expand...

Their facebook said it was.

First, Razor.

Now, Topps.

Next?

THE WORLD!!!

NECpilgrims8 said:

First, Razor.

Now, Topps.

Next?

THE WORLD!!!

Click to expand...

But remember this topic when we hear "why dont anyone do this when topps *enter oops here*"

masonphillip said:

One thing is to be sure, quite a few have showed up on eBay now.

9 of them on the day after release day.

They can't be that rare.

[phil:3ar4luam]270600599553[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]230494034533[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]280528251143[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]110553643944[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]350371076579[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]320555973236[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]180527623864[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]200490044658[/phil:3ar4luam]
[phil:3ar4luam]160450862728[/phil:3ar4luam]

Click to expand...

Yet none of the distributor packs have them... hmm....

Probably SP'ed to 100 or 200. You'll see them in more HTA and retail packs, I'm sure. But Topps definitely told us for weeks that they weren't SPed, and people DID buy this product based on that, otherwise the cost wouldn't have shot up to $1200 -- and now Topps is saying that they are SPed. And clearly, they are, otherwise hundreds would be on eBay right now.

I don't mind rare, but the key issue here is that early distributor cases had NONE. THAT is a huge issue. Topps has
screwed up in the past with the heritage super sp's...none of them were found in hobby packs and then two
guys opened retail blasters and every card is a super sp. It just makes you sick when you spend hundreds of dollars
and don't get a fair shake at the good cards.

I definitely sympathize. I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but I've come to expect Topps and other manufacturers to get as many people as possible to buy as much of every type of product in every market and venue they sell in, just like any other business does.

I'm just thankful that there's less product out there to bust as this makes things somewhat less complicated.

schmidtfan20 said:

I don't mind rare, but the key issue here is that early distributor cases had NONE. THAT is a huge issue. Topps has screwed up in the past with the heritage super sp's...none of them were found in hobby packs and then two guys opened retail blasters and every card is a super sp. It just makes you sick when you spend hundreds of dollars
and don't get a fair shake at the good cards.

Click to expand...

schmidtfan20 said:

I don't mind rare, but the key issue here is that early distributor cases had NONE. THAT is a huge issue. Topps has
screwed up in the past with the heritage super sp's...none of them were found in hobby packs and then two
guys opened retail blasters and every card is a super sp. It just makes you sick when you spend hundreds of dollars
and don't get a fair shake at the good cards.

Click to expand...

When they said that "everyone has a chance" it is done on a basis of the number of minis printed versus the number of boxes packed out. It doesn't matter if they were put into consecutive packs in consecutive boxes in consecutive cases. Since it is not considered an insert, it is not going to be given an insertion ratio like black-borders, ginter backs or bazooka backs (ex: 1:20 packs). Just because it's a card EVERYONE wants doesn't mean it's going to be inserted in a way that everyone who buys so much is guaranteed so many.

That seems to be the hardest thing for people to understand. Topps MAY HAVE known that the announcement would drive sales, but Topps wasn't the ones jacking up prices... the people YOU BOUGHT THEM FROM jacked up the prices. If anyone.. blame them for raising their prices to cash in on people with hopes of pulling a Stras mini. Regardless of cost, Topps was going to sell out, and they received the same amount of paydirt that they would have if cases prices fell to rock bottom.

bradical said:

Jeff N. said:

Now, obviously, Topps is saying Strassy is a short print (which makes my desire to bust retail significantly lessened). . . has anyone heard back from Topps individually?

Theoretically, if purchases were made based on their claims that Stras was not an SP, now he's an incredible SP, there ARE legal issues here. Not to sound like a sue happy attorney, but this is, to put it in terms you might understand, a bait and switch.

Click to expand...

People bought the product far before the announcement of the Strasburg addition or released checklist. To me, the addition of the Strasburg to the product was an extra incentive to bust, not a guarantee he will be in my boxes.

Why is everyone so bent-out-of-shape over this? It comes with the risk of busting a product.

Click to expand...

seems to be lots of that. You mean if I buy a case I'm not guaranteed to make money or hit a strasburg. That's not fair. Not just this product, but almost every product you seem to get this.

There will be no legal fallout. The lack of Stras in early distributor cases could be and probably will be chalked up to collation problems. And, truth be told, as improbable as it seems, this could actually be the issue.

The problem here is too many people buying entire cases of A&G in pursuit of a single card. That, to me at least, defies logic and is asking for a hard screwing. The card is surfacing now, so it clearly exists and Topps can't be accused of being deceptive. Where it is Topps' fault, though, is in giving out contradictory information about the rarity of Stras minis - SP'd, seeded as every other common mini, etc (They did say all along the AU redemptions were seeded). My gut instinct says that the problem here lies in Topps' own confusion, and not deception. And this led to the apparent "collation" problem.

The bottom line is that Topps is no way obligated to ensure that there is a Stras mini in every so many cases, although collation odds should ensure that those who broke case upon case landed at least one.

Let's examine this.
Imagine I take 4 fresh deck of cards, and I shuffle them in a machine shuffler -- meaning normal shuffle pattern cannot be assumed. That means there are 4 of each card in this total stack. I then take the stack and lay the stack of 208 cards face down in one huge stack. I tell you that for $2 you can pull the top card off of the stack. If you pull an Ace of Spades, I will pay you $100. Since there is NOTHING stating that one ace will fall in every given range (since the shuffle pattern has been completely randomized and not consistent), you could literally draw every single card and have the 4 spade aces at the very bottom of the deck.

Is it my fault if you go $100 (50 cards) into the stack without pulling a winning ace? Nope. The aces are in the exact same ratio as they would be if they were evenly collated.

A fool and his money....

masonphillip said:

One thing is to be sure, quite a few have showed up on eBay now.

9 of them on the day after release day.

They can't be that rare.

[phil:2juj26jd]270600599553[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]230494034533[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]280528251143[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]110553643944[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]350371076579[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]320555973236[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]180527623864[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]200490044658[/phil:2juj26jd]
[phil:2juj26jd]160450862728[/phil:2juj26jd]

Click to expand...

Why would these people not start thier auctions at .99?
It make no sense!