Old Judge question...

I just recently came into the possession of a 1887 N172 Old Judge Dan Brouthers. Would tobacco leave a print line if it stained a card heavily? There's a print line of sorts on the card front so I was wondering if anyone has seen a Old Judge with discoloration that would leave a line. It might be trimmed too, but did not spend much on it and I believe as long as it is authenticated it might actually sell for more than what I bought it for. I cannot find any online information to help spot alterations to Old Judge cards. The background still shows through the staining and has natural fading, so I have hard time believing the staining is artificial. Any thoughts or information for Old Judge cards would be super appreciated. Thanks,

Andrew

Do you have a scan?

jay1065 said:

Do you have a scan?

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I will still send it in for grading to have documentation whether it is altered or authentic. I want to have something to show the seller in case something is wrong with it. Like I said earlier, I did not pay too much considering it is a HOFer so the risk was minimal. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

Looks good to me. The "print line" looks more like the result of how the card was stored over the years. Did you watermark the scan? What's with the vertical script in the center?

Great card!

jay1065 said:

Did you watermark the scan? What's with the vertical script in the center?

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It seems to be embedded in the card like a stamping of some sort. I don't expect it to grade well or anything, but I hope it just grades at all. I couldn't afford a graded Brouthers and he was one of the HOFers I targeted from scanning the Old Judge checklist. Thanks for giving me a little piece of mind. Off to grading it goes...

AK11 said:

It seems to be embedded in the card like a stamping of some sort.

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Very cool! Could be that an old time collector marked his card(s) in such a manner. Can you make out the letters in person? Seems like they may be initials.

jay1065 said:

AK11 said:

It seems to be embedded in the card like a stamping of some sort.

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Very cool! Could be that an old time collector marked his card(s) in such a manner. Can you make out the letters in person? Seems like they may be initials.

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My best guess is "B T R". Definitely in loopy old fashion cursive writing. How many Old Judge cards do you own and do you frequently browse them because this is my first one and have never seen another one in person. Depending on the grade, I may keep it or sell it. This card was listed in the tobacco section of ebay, not in the sports cards so there were very few bids on it. I hope I luck out in the end. :|

I hope someone reads this reply. Here's my question: is my Old Judge a "Players League" variation? You can see very faintly in the lower left corner of the player photo what is 2 letters and the second one looks like an 'L'. I have verified on a vintage baseball card website that this card can have the 'PL' designation. I cannot find a photo of another one to verify anywhere. I have heard the PL variations are much more scarce, so if anybody here can help me out on this one. I have email multiple sites and attached the same scan of the front to show them. The picture is faded so much it is very hard to tell (I am waiting on the card to come back after grading so I cannot look at the card in-person right now), but if you look hard there is some writing in the corner of the player photo. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Andrew

This card does have a Player's League variation. The PL designation should be on the lower right, above "Bostons." I believe you have the Boston NL variation.

jay1065 said:

This card does have a Player's League variation. The PL designation should be on the lower right, above "Bostons." I believe you have the Boston NL variation.

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Thanks so much for the reply. I just wanted to be sure.

No problem. The PL cards were issued in 1890, and the picture quality is poor compared to the cards issued from 1887-1889. The condition of your card aside, the overall image quality seems to be better than that of an OJ issued in 1890.

jay1065 said:

No problem. The PL cards were issued in 1890, and the picture quality is poor compared to the cards issued from 1887-1889. The condition of your card aside, the overall image quality seems to be better than that of an OJ issued in 1890.

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Have you seen a PL variation Brouthers in person or by photo? I cannot find one anywhere on the web. The PL seems to be anywhere on the card from looking at other players' cards. Just wanted a photo verification. Thanks,

Andrew

AK11 said:

jay1065 said:

No problem. The PL cards were issued in 1890, and the picture quality is poor compared to the cards issued from 1887-1889. The condition of your card aside, the overall image quality seems to be better than that of an OJ issued in 1890.

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Have you seen a PL variation Brouthers in person or by photo? I cannot find one anywhere on the web. The PL seems to be anywhere on the card from looking at other players' cards. Just wanted a photo verification. Thanks,

Andrew

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I have a photo of it in my copy of The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company (1886-1890.) Due to copyright law, I cannot post a picture of it. If you ever choose to put together any form of the N172 set as I have, I HIGHLY recommend this book. More info can be found here:

http://www.oldcardboard.com/eNews/2009/ ... ws57.htm#2

A day doesn't go by in which I don't read or glance at a portion of this book.


EDIT: Aside from the photographic proof, I still stand beside my statement that, based on the photo quality, your Brouthers card is his Boston NL variation from 1889.

jay1065 said:

AK11 said:

jay1065 said:

No problem. The PL cards were issued in 1890, and the picture quality is poor compared to the cards issued from 1887-1889. The condition of your card aside, the overall image quality seems to be better than that of an OJ issued in 1890.

Click to expand...

Have you seen a PL variation Brouthers in person or by photo? I cannot find one anywhere on the web. The PL seems to be anywhere on the card from looking at other players' cards. Just wanted a photo verification. Thanks,

Andrew

Click to expand...

I have a photo of it in my copy of The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company (1886-1890.) Due to copyright law, I cannot post a picture of it. If you ever choose to put together any form of the N172 set as I have, I HIGHLY recommend this book. More info can be found here:

http://www.oldcardboard.com/eNews/2009/ ... ws57.htm#2

A day doesn't go by in which I don't read or glance at a portion of this book.


EDIT: Aside from the photographic proof, I still stand beside my statement that, based on the photo quality, your Brouthers card is his Boston NL variation from 1889.

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Can you buy this book in a bookstore because Amazon does not have any and I do not want to just send $125 in the mail to the author. Anywhere else online that has a copy to sell? Thanks for the good information. I do appreciate it.

If you are concerned about sending the money directly to the author(s), don't be. At least two of them are highly respected regular posters on Net54. Otherwise, the book pops up from time-to-time on eBay.