Another ebay issue with a harrassing buyer....

And I am honestly starting to question whether I am the issue or there are just more idiots joining and buying on ebay. Or maybe a little of both (maybe the most likely scenario I guess since it takes 2 to tango).

This is a bit of FRAT (means F*** reading all that)

Anyways on another board someone posted a topic about preferring to have a copy of the redemption card when they have the card that was already redeemed.
So basically, you buy a Montero 2008 BC Auto RC and you get just the autographed card.
But it became apparent a few people like to have a corresponding redemption card to go along with it.

So I had 2 USED redemption cards (1 Jesus Montero BC Auto and 1 BJ Penn Topps UFC) that I figured, what the heck, list it starting at $0.49 and CLEARLY stating its been redeemed TWICE (once in the title, once in the desc.), and if it get a couple of bucks for it, great. If not oh well. My intention was HONESTLY not to scam people and it never even crossed my mind.

So I list my already redeemed Montero BC Redemption and it ends last night:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MESOX:IT

Somehow it got to $8 (which looking back I guess isnt surprising as my BJ Penn ended at $28+), I send an invoice and go to bed.

I wake up this morning and I have a dispute open from the buyer plus the following 4 ebay messages sent over a 15 minute span (from first message to last):

Dear $heff,

HOW YOU COULD LIST A USED REDEMPTION CARD IS BEYOND ME!!! I SHOULD HAV ETO CLOSELY READ AFTER YOU LIE IN THE "MAIN LISTING"!!! WILL FIGHT AND IF LOSE? WQILL NEGATIVE! WHY DONT YOU RECIPTS OF YOUR SHOES YO UBOUGHT?? NO DIFFERENT!! I CANT EVEN BELIVE SOMEONE SELL THE "USED!!!!!!!!!!!!" CARD? SO I DONT CARE IF YOU LISTED AT BOTTOM!! SHOULDNT EVEN BE ALLOWED TO LIST!!!!! WHO WOULD WANT A USED REDEMPTION CARD? LET ALONE SET AT $8? A SCAMMER!! AND THATS WHAT YOU ARE!!!

- lottocardsss

Dear $heff,

IF ANY RECIEPTS OF BOUGHT SOCKS OR SHOES OR MILK? ETC..... BE HAPPY TO BUY!! THATS WHAT THIS IS WORTH!!

- lottocardsss

Dear $heff,

EVEN IF I LOSE CASE, KEEP YOUR PIECE OF CRAP "RECIEPT" (NO MATTER HOW YOU DESCRIBE IT, THAT`S WHAT IT IS!) SAVE MONEY ON POSTAGE, CAUSE YOU MUST BE HARD UP FOR MONEY IF PULLIN CRAP LIKE THIS!? SO DONT EVEN SEND ME IT!! USE IT TO SCREW ANOTHER PERSON! AND DONT TRY TO DENY? YA LIKE STARTING AT $8 ISNT DECIEPT? PROVES RIGHT THERE!

- lottocardsss

Dear $heff,

MY BAD? THERE WAS OTHER SUCKERS! OR BUDDYS? CANT BELIEVE THERE ARE 3 IDIOTS!

- lottocardsss

As well, here is the PAYPAL note attached to the dispute:

REDEMPTION CARD! AND ITS JUST THE REDEMPTION CARD? WHO IN THIER RIGHT MIND? WOUYLD PUT UP JUST THE REDEMPTION CARD, ARD THEY ALREADY RECIVED CARD? LIKE I WANT A RECIEPT? NO WAY IS THIE FAIR! AND SORRY IF DIDNT COMPLETLEY READ? NO REASO N TO BE SELLING A RECIEPT! SCAMMER!!!!!!!


So basically I am guaranteed a negative at this point and I honestly dont know what recourse I have as I dont think I ever encountered someone who I get the impression bid just to cause issues.
Maybe I overestimated peoples intelligence, but I just dont think its reasonable to expect a Montero Auto to go for anything less than $$40-50.
PLUS, this was my Ebay title and description:

JESUS MONTERO 08 BOWMAN CHROME REDEEMED REDEMPTION CARD
PRODUCT: 2008 BOWMAN CHROME

MANUFACTURER: TOPPS

CARD #: NNA

You are biddng on a REDEEMED Jesus Montero 2008 Bowman Chrome Autograph Card.

I repeat, this has been redeemed already and you will NOT receive a card by entering the redemption code on the back. You will just receive the used redemption card.

Shipping will be $3.50 and the card will be shipped in a penny sleeve, top loader, team bag, and packed well within a bubble envelope.

I can certainly combine shipping with a charge of $0.50 per card unless the card is a heavy patch card in which it is $1.00 per card.

Please have a look at all of my auctions and feel free to contact me should you have any questions, concerns, or if you are interested in any MMA cards you do not see listed.

I do not accept Paypal e-cheques.

My first thought is to go ahead and refund the money and then just fight the neg.
But my bigger issue is whether I did unintentionally seem to be scamming people. That's not how I want to use ebay and if need be, I have no problem admitting it could have been misleading and I need to re-evaluate how and what I list.

At the same time, the buyer is:

a) harrasing me
b) accusing me or trying to rip people off
c) claiming I have buddy's shill bidding for me

LMK what your guys thoughts are on this.

Thanks.

Call eBay and get a name/address to forward those e-mails to. eBay will prevent him neg'ing you.

$3.50 shipping for a used redemption card?

Anyway, when I read that guys messages I could just picture the dude sitting at his computer desk at midnight just absolutely steaming at the fact he accidentally bought a redeemed redemption. I had a little laugh to myself. I don't see much difference between this and a ripped Ginter rip card other than the redemption had no picture. You won't be getting paid, but you won't lose the case most likely.

You say it's redeemed more than enough times. Redemptions and rip cards are two kinds of card that you should really read the description to make sure what you are getting, I do. If the buyer failed to do this, that's on him. I would forward ebay the e-mail and you should hopefully be fine. You did nothing wrong, not even close.

I would let ebay know about his emails. When I looked at the auction, I knew it was already redeemed. You clearly state it in the title and again in the description. This clown is just mad he didn't get a steal on a card he thought he would.

sigma_chi said:

$3.50 shipping for a used redemption card?

Click to expand...

That's what stood out to me in this post. :lol:

sigma_chi said:

$3.50 shipping for a used redemption card?

I am from Canada.
Unless I want to track EVERY item and pay the $14 to do so through paypal, which I would obviously have to pass on to buyers, I have to physically go to the PO.
Is my time, supplies (top load, penny sleeve, tape, paper, and bubble env.) and gas ($1.00/Litre here) not worth $1.50? Honest question.

Anyway, when I read that guys messages I could just picture the dude sitting at his computer desk at midnight just absolutely steaming at the fact he accidentally bought a redeemed redemption. I had a little laugh to myself. I don't see much difference between this and a ripped Ginter rip card other than the redemption had no picture. You won't be getting paid, but you won't lose the case most likely.

Click to expand...

I already got paid but then a dispute seemed to open up immediately after.
Almost like he paid just to create more drama. Or he truly is an idiot. IDK!

That guy was hammered when he bid, hammered when he typed all that nonsense and hungover or still hammered this morning

Does anyone have ebay's phone #?

I looked on their site but couldn't locate it.

Personally, I take issue with these redemption cards for a couple reasons. I created this forum 2 days ago after some recent redemption hassles. Thanks to Mike at Topps for his help!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=102203

IMO

a) the redemption is a placeholder and is worthless. Maybe there is a market of people who collect these, but even the cost of shipping wouldnt make it worth it to me.
Sorry if this is a board member's listing but this is laughable
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-Bowman-Chrome- ... S_Baseball

b) in reference to my forum posting, with in the last month, I have been the receiving end of 2 dead redemption cards - (that Topss confirmed were claimed in 2009). OP, say you redeemed the Montero, got the actual AU card, and filed the redemption card/code in a box of commons/lot that later ends up in another buyer's hands. He thinks he landed a gem in his big random lot and lists the card. Im not saying thats what happened to me, but it proves possibilties that can create issues with redmeptions cards. There is no way for a seller to check if the redemption is still valid. Once you put the code in it sends it to your account. I possibly think that could be a feature to add to Topps' website: check code validity, or carry out the redemption. The scary thing about this is that you theoretically could sit at your computer and hack redemption codes until you get one right. I know its a pain, but for security reasons, I think you should have to mail the physical redmeption card in.

c) new members to either ebay or the hobby may not fully grasp the redemption concept and get themselves in a bad situation.

ArtVandelay said:

Personally, I take issue with these redemption cards for a couple reasons. I created this forum 2 days ago after some recent redemption hassles. Thanks to Mike at Topps for his help!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=102203

IMO

a) the redemption is a placeholder and is worthless. Maybe there is a market of people who collect these, but even the cost of shipping wouldnt make it worth it to me.
Sorry if this is a board member's listing but this is laughable
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-Bowman-Chrome- ... S_Baseball

b) in reference to my forum posting, with in the last month, I have been the receiving end of 2 dead redemption cards - (that Topss confirmed were claimed in 2009). OP, say you redeemed the Montero, got the actual AU card, and filed the redemption card/code in a box of commons/lot that later ends up in another buyer's hands. He thinks he landed a gem in his big random lot and lists the card. Im not saying thats what happened to me, but it proves possibilties that can create issues with redmeptions cards. There is no way for a seller to check if the redemption is still valid. Once you put the code in it sends it to your account. I possibly think that could be a feature to add to Topps' website: check code validity, or carry out the redemption. The scary thing about this is that you theoretically could sit at your computer and hack redemption codes until you get one right. I know its a pain, but for security reasons, I think you should have to mail the physical redmeption card in.

c) new members to either ebay or the hobby may not fully grasp the redemption concept and get themselves in a bad situation.

Click to expand...

You have the best username on this website!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

ArtVandelay said:

Personally, I take issue with these redemption cards for a couple reasons. I created this forum 2 days ago after some recent redemption hassles. Thanks to Mike at Topps for his help!

http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/v ... 2&t=102203

IMO

a) the redemption is a placeholder and is worthless. Maybe there is a market of people who collect these, but even the cost of shipping wouldnt make it worth it to me.
Sorry if this is a board member's listing but this is laughable
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-Bowman-Chrome- ... S_Baseball

b) in reference to my forum posting, with in the last month, I have been the receiving end of 2 dead redemption cards - (that Topss confirmed were claimed in 2009). OP, say you redeemed the Montero, got the actual AU card, and filed the redemption card/code in a box of commons/lot that later ends up in another buyer's hands. He thinks he landed a gem in his big random lot and lists the card. Im not saying thats what happened to me, but it proves possibilties that can create issues with redmeptions cards. There is no way for a seller to check if the redemption is still valid. Once you put the code in it sends it to your account. I possibly think that could be a feature to add to Topps' website: check code validity, or carry out the redemption. The scary thing about this is that you theoretically could sit at your computer and hack redemption codes until you get one right. I know its a pain, but for security reasons, I think you should have to mail the physical redmeption card in.

c) new members to either ebay or the hobby may not fully grasp the redemption concept and get themselves in a bad situation.

Click to expand...

I get want your saying Art. And by the looks of it, you have been screwed before thinking you were buying UNREDEEMED cards. But in my case, should I not list a card ONLY because people cant or are unwillingly to read the item details (which the buyer claims).

Furthermore, I contacted the buyer of my other USED redemption card that sold for $28 to see if I made it clear what a person was getting.

Here is what I sent vs his response:

Hi there,

I just want to confirm with you that you are aware you will NOT be able to enter the redemption code on the back of the card to receive a BJ Penn Auto.

Basically this is just the redemption card and the redemption code is no longer valid.

Please advise you understand this and I will send over your invoice.

Thank you,

Chris

Response:

I know that is what I bid on.I have the Penn auto but am missing the redemption.need it for the set.thanks for your time and asking

So as I thought, there is a market for these things (as this buyer isnt the only one who bid $25+) and providing a seller is HONEST and upfront about what it is why shouldnt he/she sell it? Especially for $30. I am starting to think I am not the problem. The problem IMO is dishonest seller and buyers who dont pay attention!

JzWand said:

ArtVandelay said:

Personally, I take issue with these redemption cards for a couple reasons. I created this forum 2 days ago after some recent redemption hassles. Thanks to Mike at Topps for his help!

http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/v ... 2&t=102203

IMO

a) the redemption is a placeholder and is worthless. Maybe there is a market of people who collect these, but even the cost of shipping wouldnt make it worth it to me.
Sorry if this is a board member's listing but this is laughable
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-Bowman-Chrome- ... S_Baseball

b) in reference to my forum posting, with in the last month, I have been the receiving end of 2 dead redemption cards - (that Topss confirmed were claimed in 2009). OP, say you redeemed the Montero, got the actual AU card, and filed the redemption card/code in a box of commons/lot that later ends up in another buyer's hands. He thinks he landed a gem in his big random lot and lists the card. Im not saying thats what happened to me, but it proves possibilties that can create issues with redmeptions cards. There is no way for a seller to check if the redemption is still valid. Once you put the code in it sends it to your account. I possibly think that could be a feature to add to Topps' website: check code validity, or carry out the redemption. The scary thing about this is that you theoretically could sit at your computer and hack redemption codes until you get one right. I know its a pain, but for security reasons, I think you should have to mail the physical redmeption card in.

c) new members to either ebay or the hobby may not fully grasp the redemption concept and get themselves in a bad situation.

Click to expand...

I get want your saying Art. And by the looks of it, you have been screwed before thinking you were buying UNREDEEMED cards. But in my case, should I not list a card ONLY because people cant or are unwillingly to read the item details (which the buyer claims).

Furthermore, I contacted the buyer of my other USED redemption card that sold for $28 to see if I made it clear what a person was getting.

Here is what I sent vs his response:

Hi there,

I just want to confirm with you that you are aware you will NOT be able to enter the redemption code on the back of the card to receive a BJ Penn Auto.

Basically this is just the redemption card and the redemption code is no longer valid.

Please advise you understand this and I will send over your invoice.

Thank you,

Chris

Response:

I know that is what I bid on.I have the Penn auto but am missing the redemption.need it for the set.thanks for your time and asking

So as I thought, there is a market for these things (as this buyer isnt the only one who bid $25+) and providing a seller is HONEST and upfront about what it is why shouldnt he/she sell it? Especially for $30. I am starting to think I am not the problem. The problem IMO is dishonest seller and buyers who dont pay attention!

Click to expand...

You are asking for **** like this by not putting redeemed in the title.

JzWand said:

I get want your saying Art. And by the looks of it, you have been screwed before thinking you were buying UNREDEEMED cards. But in my case, should I not list a card ONLY because people cant or are unwillingly to read the item details (which the buyer claims).

Furthermore, I contacted the buyer of my other USED redemption card that sold for $28 to see if I made it clear what a person was getting.

Here is what I sent vs his response:
Hi there,

I just want to confirm with you that you are aware you will NOT be able to enter the redemption code on the back of the card to receive a BJ Penn Auto.
Basically this is just the redemption card and the redemption code is no longer valid.

Please advise you understand this and I will send over your invoice.

Thank you,
Chris

Response:

I know that is what I bid on.I have the Penn auto but am missing the redemption.need it for the set.thanks for your time and asking

So as I thought, there is a market for these things (as this buyer isnt the only one who bid $25+) and providing a seller is HONEST and upfront about what it is why shouldnt he/she sell it? Especially for $30. I am starting to think I am not the problem. The problem IMO is dishonest seller and buyers who dont pay attention!

Click to expand...

I'm sorry - I didnt mean for it to come across as you being a dishonest seller in any way - you ovbiously do your due dilligence with your buyer. And I didnt have an issue with your listing becuase it was clear to me what you were offering. I stand corrected on there being a market for this - but thats still beside me that people would pay that much for the placeholder even when they already own the actual autographed card! I just meant if you had to mail it in always, you would know it was a valid redemption and no one could get screwed. (That would also mean there are no redemption placeholder cards to collect)

Thanks,
Dave

I know other collectors who like to have the redeemed redemptions to go along with their cards as well.

Honestly, I think this will continue to happen if you continue to sell these, but I don't think its your fault. A lot of eBay problems could be avoided if people weren't lazy. They just skim real quick looking for steals. They don't take time to read descriptions, they just want to find something they can flip. From seeing a lot of eBay problems, I am seriously beginning to wonder if people have the ability to read above a 2nd or 3rd grade level anymore. So many problems could be avoided if people would take 2 seconds out of their day and just read a couple of lines (not directed at the OP).

If I had never seen this thread, I would have seen that auction and known that I would only be receiving a redemption card that had already been redeemed. Seriously, it was in the title and mentioned multiple times in the description. Unfortunately, you will still get blasted by people because they shouldn't have to read, they should just be able to look at a picture and bid. Its like when people use gang scans and clearly state that people are only bidding on the card in the title, but the winning bidder demands all the cards because they saw them in the picture. ::facepalm::

So, while I agree with the OP that he did nothing wrong, this kind of problem will continue.

I bet he didn't know the definition of redeemed. Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if he knew what redemption meant outside of the context of some WWF pay-per-view.

I'm really starting to wonder if eBay's purposely letting minors bid.

I'm sorry, but the buyer is a moron and you are not in the wrong AT ALL!

People that are player collectors (or in that case, set collectors), want the redemption card to complete the set.

The email from the other buyer should stand as proof that you were not in the wrong.

scotty21690 said:

You have the best username on this website!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

You've been thanked! My name is Dave for all you non-Seinfeld familiar board members!!!

ArtVandelay said:

scotty21690 said:

You have the best username on this website!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

You've been thanked! My name is Dave for all you non-Seinfeld familiar board members!!!

Click to expand...

Haha that's great! Good to see you around Dave


It's funny....My sister has been looking at apartments down in Florida recently and one she really liked was named "Mandelay on the 4th". Everytime I tried to say the name of it I would call it the Vandelay, I just couldn't help myself. ::facepalm:: :lol:


Sorry for getting this thread wayy OT.

tonsofcommons said:

I'm sorry, but the buyer is a moron and you are not in the wrong AT ALL!

People that are player collectors (or in that case, set collectors), want the redemption card to complete the set.

The email from the other buyer should stand as proof that you were not in the wrong.

Click to expand...

I have to agree completely. I mean look at the retarded emails the OP is getting. The buyer should be hung from his feet and skinned alive in the street. Morons like the purchaser are just a headache in any marketplace and its a wonder they can even feed themselves.