Hanley Ramirez card prices

He still cant seem to get enough of a following cardwise to raise his prices. Whats the deal? Stanton and Morrison saw nice rises i their cards (I know Hanleys have sold much better as well) so I dont think its just the fact that he plays for the Marlins. Do you think his prices will rise to the likes of Longoria/Wright etc or will he never see a big increase. It seems like every time his Chrome autos pop up they sell for less and less, and every so often you see one bring a good chunk of cash which seems to be leading to a bump, then they fall again. He has raised his batting average to .299 but even if he finishes the season with .300, 25 homeruns and 85 RBI with a .380 OBP and .480 SLG%, thats probably not going to help right? It seems like each season he excels in a category but outside of 1 year, he cant put it all together.

In '06 he has 51 steals, but only hit 17 homeruns with 59 RBI and batted .292
In '07 he hits 29 homeruns with 81 RBI and again 51 steals with a .332 average (amazing year)
In '08 he hits 33 homeruns but only drives in 61 RBI, K's 122 times, lowers his steals to 35 and lowers his average to .301
In '09 he "only" hits 24 homeruns yet drives in 106 RBI, his steals drop again to 27 but he raises his average back to .342
Now, this year in a pretty loaded offense hes hitting .299 with 19 homeruns and just 69 RBI w/ 28 steals.

Anyways, what do you think of his prices.Overpriced, underpriced, about right? Will they go up, go down, stay the same and buy, sell or hold?

im a buyer

no on cares about the Marlins.

I think it's the fact he has an auto in every product so aside from his rookie auto there will never be a big increase in his prices IMO

Comparing Hanley to Stanton, et al, is fine as long as you compare year to year. Hanley's card values shot way up a couple years ago, and they've pretty much stayed there. They won't keep going up, unfortunately. But Stanton's prices started out strong and got stronger, but they won't keep going up past a certain point. Veteran players, once they've established their level of excellence, tend to establish card prices as well, and from their usually only decline.

This makes tons of sense.

Plus before simply saying a player's card prices are too low, it helps to think comparatively - its not like Hanley is the only player who has cards; Hanley's not an island with unlimited potential some would have you believe and therefore is not beyond comparison. I think some people are socialized to believe high potential players are beyond comparison which distorts reality and helps account for sky-high or unrealistic prices.

So, invariably the question becomes: compared to whom are Hanley's cards priced too low? One can't use Stanton etc because Stanton hasn't done anything yet.

smapdi said:

Comparing Hanley to Stanton, et al, is fine as long as you compare year to year. Hanley's card values shot way up a couple years ago, and they've pretty much stayed there. They won't keep going up, unfortunately. But Stanton's prices started out strong and got stronger, but they won't keep going up past a certain point. Veteran players, once they've established their level of excellence, tend to establish card prices as well, and from their usually only decline.

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schmidtfan20 said:

no on cares about the Marlins.

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As long as he is with the Marlins, the card prices won't be moving anytime soon. If he goes almost anywhere else, his cards would see some kind of price bump.

bcubs066 said:

schmidtfan20 said:

no on cares about the Marlins.

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As long as he is with the Marlins, the card prices won't be moving anytime soon. If he goes almost anywhere else, his cards would see some kind of price bump.

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I'm betting the same thing. Look at Uggla. His cards haven't jumped one penny with the year he is having.

The stats the OP brings up are interesting too. Chicks, and card collectors, dig the long ball. Hitting for high average and stealing bases in a small market for a 20 year old franchise isn't enough to move his prices.

How do Hanley's sales compare to someone who plays a similar role for a bigger more established franchise, say Jose Reyes?

Card pricing isn't like the stock market where every little bit of news is incorporated into an ever-changing swirl of pricing. For one thing, there are thousands or millions of transactions on a given stock every day. How many Hanley cards are sold every day (on ebay, where everyone can see), a couple dozen? And they vary so widely in price. If stocks sold for $80 one hour and $100 the next hour, or $20 the next because someone spelled the name of the stock wrong, there'd be total chaos.

You know what makes stocks jump? When the company comes out with unexpectedly good news, like reports earnings that beat the estimates, or a new technological breakthrough with real-world application, or an acquisition. Similarly, the biggest jump in card prices is when a guy is on his way to the majors, then, hopefully, makes a big impact right after he debuts. The value, or at least the pricing, is in the "what could be/next big thing" aura. Then, that aura fades and you're left with the real guy, whether he's a regular guy, or an all-star type, or MVP/CYA type. When the regular guy jumps to MVP level, or MVP guy jumps to major-record/Triple Crown-type level, that's really the only time you'll see an appreciable jump.

Guys like Uggla, here's a guy whose RC should be $5, I should think. His rookie pedigree is tailor-made for a chase card. He has one 'true' RC and one parallel, from a set that wasn't heavily broken, that's 6 years old, with nothing else really recommending it, so no one's out there cracking case after case looking for the 'hits.' But his RC is 99 cents. But no one had heard of him when he came up, he was probably going to be a flash-in-the-pan, but here he is a few years later just being a very solid player. Unless he gets on an MVP-type roll one of these years, his cards stay soft.

So, invariably the question becomes: compared to whom are Hanley's cards priced too low? One can't use Stanton etc because Stanton hasn't done anything yet.

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I think you could compare him to Stanton, but the Stanton of the future. That is, Hanley's in his 8th card year. Stanton's in his 3rd, I think. So imagine, unless Stanton becomes a truly monumental hitter, what his values would be in 2015 by looking at his probably peaks. Probably similar to Hanley in arc. By then we'll know what type of player he is, so many more Player-X-manias will have come and gone, and the market will probably have changed a fair bit (read as 'shrunk').

If he still played with the Red Sox his cards would be just as hot as Jeter's.

It's a down year and the limelight has been on other players. If he can match some of the numbers of the last few years, prices will follow suit sooner or later. His Bowman Chrome Auto is a deal at current prices IMO.

The team he plays on is a big factor for sure, but I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned is his attitude. When Cabrera was with the Marlins, at least the first 3-4 years, I always had Cabrera collectors wanting my 50-lots of him until the consensus became that he was fat and lazy. But Hanley is a different story. I think his attitude lost him some potential collectors. Let's take a guy down in Miami, a Marlins fan, let's say a kid or young guy who is thinking, "Who should my favorite player be?" He might take a lesser known, less talented guy like Coughlin or Uggla just because they're more likable.

Hanley is a good example of how a great player can be uncollectable.

Whatever the reason is, I'm ok with it.

schmidtfan20 said:

no on cares about the Marlins.

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I know I don't care about the Marlins ...

Hanley chrome auto rc's have dipped under $100. This offseason will be a great time to buy as I bet they will be in the $75 range. Stock up.

The problem with Ramirez (and the same can be said for Miguel Cabrera) is that they will never likely transcend the game ala Derek Jeter, Pujols. Guys like that will always sell at a high price, but have a lower ceiling. It would take a lot, performance-wise, for their prices to increase.

gomatt said:

The problem with Ramirez (and the same can be said for Miguel Cabrera) is that they will never likely transcend the game ala Derek Jeter, Pujols. Guys like that will always sell at a high price, but have a lower ceiling. It would take a lot, performance-wise, for their prices to increase.

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Hanley and Cabrera (whose card prices did increase this year) are on track for hall of fame careers. At the rate Hanley is going (and I know this is very premature) he could go down as one of the top 5 SS to ever play the game. If this does happen, do you really see his Chrome auto rc's staying around $75-80 a pop? I certainly don't.

gomatt said:

The problem with Ramirez (and the same can be said for Miguel Cabrera) is that they will never likely transcend the game ala Derek Jeter, Pujols. Guys like that will always sell at a high price, but have a lower ceiling. It would take a lot, performance-wise, for their prices to increase.

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I agree with this. Cabrera isn't the fan favorite in Detroit even though he is far and away the best player. As bad as it sounds I think some of pricing and fan following has to do with how well fans relate with the player. For whatever reason most fans don't seem to relate to the Latin American players. Especially those who don't speak much publicly.

It's not impossible to overcome for Latin American guys, but I think American players have a built in edge to become popular.