Notebook 792 and set size

As a chemist, we're required to document all of our reactions and work in notebooks, with signatures and dates, co-signed pages by witnesses, and no available blank space that could otherwise be altered. After about 3-4 months, it's time for a new notebook for me and yesterday I went and got that notebook, which are numbered sequentially throughout the company based on demand. Normally I prefer something like 700, 444, or 399, but it's all based on when you need it, so it's dumb luck. So I went and got it and to my dismay, I received #792.

And I stared at it for a bit. What is it about this notebook that feels more special than, say, 749 or 652 did? Was it my old area code? Locker number? Perhaps my luggage lock? Then DING!

I started collecting in 1982 with Topps. And the 792 card set. I didn't occur to me for a few years back then as an 8-year old why 792 was used, being such an unattractive number, but obviously I found out eventually that was a multiple of the number of cards per sheet during printing. And so was 660 (just missed that with 652 back a couple years ago!). And the beauty of the 792 card set was the completeness of it. Jerry Mumphrey, Gene Nelson, and Dave Wehrmeister had cards, dammit! You got the full experience and some cool cards like the In Action and Team Leaders, All Star cards, etc. And it was fun to actually build those large sets. As a kid I got to know the cards and the stats of the players on them. You had hardwired which ones you needed and trading with friends was a legit and frequent activity. And it was easy to work on the sets with no hobby only releases and every supermarket and mom and pop store having packs in stock. Racks where you could see at least six cards, cello packs. The fun was in the completeness of the set and knowing something about players other than the over-produced star and rookie cards.

Topps did try to bring back the large set with the Topps Total releases and those were some big ones and nice to work on for sure. But 770, 880, and 990 were somehow less charming that good ol' 792.

I wish Topps would bring back Total, maybe as a January release when there's nothing else going on. For $1, 10 or 12 cards a pack, all base cards except for maybe a parallel and low level inserts, just like the original Total. Just give everyone who played in that season a card, really make it a Total set. I guess UD tried that with 40 Man years ago, but I got hooked on 2005 Topps Total a while back and I'm still working on the set, even after 2 boxes. Huge set, good cheap break.

I agree, 792 was perfect. Especially when it was released in one and only one "series". It made it harder and more special to pull even one Mattingly out of a box of cards. Even down to 660 cards, how many cards in 2011 Topps feature Pujols either as a base, league leader, all-star, etc.? Seems like he's in every other pack to me. Simpler times my friend.

One more thing- a team set should NEVER have less than 30 cards in it. Ever. Would'nt mind hearing from a collector or two that collects a veteran player thats been around for a few years and barely has any cards because of their position

DeliciousBacon said:

I wish Topps would bring back Total, maybe as a January release when there's nothing else going on. For $1, 10 or 12 cards a pack, all base cards except for maybe a parallel and low level inserts, just like the original Total. Just give everyone who played in that season a card, really make it a Total set. I guess UD tried that with 40 Man years ago, but I got hooked on 2005 Topps Total a while back and I'm still working on the set, even after 2 boxes. Huge set, good cheap break.

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I'd like to understand more about why base Topps can't be the way Total was. Maybe just getting rid of base Topps' foil lettering would do it.

As someone who never truly experienced those days, I feel a bit annoyed that collectors today can't enjoy that simplicity.

I began in the mid-90s; while I was never a set collector, it was still much simpler. Joy came from pulling a base card of your favorite player or even an insert (of anyone!). Today, it's no fun unless you hit a nice autograph.

uniquebaseballcards said:

DeliciousBacon said:

I wish Topps would bring back Total, maybe as a January release when there's nothing else going on. For $1, 10 or 12 cards a pack, all base cards except for maybe a parallel and low level inserts, just like the original Total. Just give everyone who played in that season a card, really make it a Total set. I guess UD tried that with 40 Man years ago, but I got hooked on 2005 Topps Total a while back and I'm still working on the set, even after 2 boxes. Huge set, good cheap break.

Click to expand...

I'd like to understand more about why base Topps can't be the way Total was. Maybe just getting rid of base Topps' foil lettering would do it.

Click to expand...

What I'd like to see is a larger release like Total and for it to be available in the grocery checkout lane like it used to be. Having cards at WalMart and Target like that is fine, but there's nothing like a big ol' rak pak hanging there next to the gum to entice the little guys while they wait in line with mom. Captive audience and a reasonable price point would make such a release huge in re-establishing the hobby with the young.

is it sad that when i saw 792, i knew exactly what you meant? lol

ThoseBackPages said:

is it sad that when i saw 792, i knew exactly what you meant? lol

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Any self respecting collector older than 25 should have known what 792 referred to! :^)

The number 792 will always be associated with Topps sets for me too. The set fit perfectly into an 800-count box, and was pretty comprehensive. I think base Topps has gotten to be too flashy with so many variations, parallels and inserts. There would be no need to have a set like Topps Total if they left base Topps alone. That's a big reason why I gave up set collecting about 5 or 6 years ago... too many variations appearing in the base set. All the inserts, which I admit are very nice, just drove up the pack prices.

- Rod

and the thing is, Topps COULD do it. Look at Heritage and the Base Target Flagship cards.

DeliciousBacon said:

I wish Topps would bring back Total, maybe as a January release when there's nothing else going on. For $1, 10 or 12 cards a pack, all base cards except for maybe a parallel and low level inserts, just like the original Total. Just give everyone who played in that season a card, really make it a Total set. I guess UD tried that with 40 Man years ago, but I got hooked on 2005 Topps Total a while back and I'm still working on the set, even after 2 boxes. Huge set, good cheap break.

Click to expand...

At the press conference at lasts years national, topps said total was a product that did not generate enough revenue and likely would not be resurrected. The biggest problem is most collectors regardless of price are unwilling to buy products with no guaranteed hits. There are not enough set collectors to make a product with such a low price point be worth while. It also means that they need to have a contract with 700+ players compared to most sets need like 200 people. The management and cost of this make the set unfeasible in their eyes.

bouwob said:

DeliciousBacon said:

I wish Topps would bring back Total, maybe as a January release when there's nothing else going on. For $1, 10 or 12 cards a pack, all base cards except for maybe a parallel and low level inserts, just like the original Total. Just give everyone who played in that season a card, really make it a Total set. I guess UD tried that with 40 Man years ago, but I got hooked on 2005 Topps Total a while back and I'm still working on the set, even after 2 boxes. Huge set, good cheap break.

Click to expand...

At the press conference at lasts years national, topps said total was a product that did not generate enough revenue and likely would not be resurrected. The biggest problem is most collectors regardless of price are unwilling to buy products with no guaranteed hits. There are not enough set collectors to make a product with such a low price point be worth while. It also means that they need to have a contract with 700+ players compared to most sets need like 200 people. The management and cost of this make the set unfeasible in their eyes.

Click to expand...

So here's an idea: put in some "hits".

Just like they do now, just make them simpler, as in one regular auto per X number of packs. Not 15 varieties of autos, but one type of base auto of regular players, mixing in some rookies. Topps is looking at the money as only coming from what collectors have become now: hit ******. And as a result, there are no children collecting cards today. And guess what? They'll grow up and not care to get into the cards that Topps currently features. How much money does Topps actually make today from people that did not collect cards before 1990?

They're screwing this up and the hobby is in trouble.

Topps Total used to have hits; each set had a handful of absolute scrub autos that came in every few hundred/thousand packs. Plus the plates; I know they put plates in at least the 2005 Total because I pulled a Juan Uribe a few years ago. Besides, Opening Day must do well enough if they keep doing it every year, and no one buys that for the scrub autos.

bouwob said:

DeliciousBacon said:

I wish Topps would bring back Total, maybe as a January release when there's nothing else going on. For $1, 10 or 12 cards a pack, all base cards except for maybe a parallel and low level inserts, just like the original Total. Just give everyone who played in that season a card, really make it a Total set. I guess UD tried that with 40 Man years ago, but I got hooked on 2005 Topps Total a while back and I'm still working on the set, even after 2 boxes. Huge set, good cheap break.

Click to expand...

At the press conference at lasts years national, topps said total was a product that did not generate enough revenue and likely would not be resurrected. The biggest problem is most collectors regardless of price are unwilling to buy products with no guaranteed hits. There are not enough set collectors to make a product with such a low price point be worth while. It also means that they need to have a contract with 700+ players compared to most sets need like 200 people. The management and cost of this make the set unfeasible in their eyes.

Click to expand...

They already have contracts with just about everyone in organized baseball, not sure that would be a deterrent towards an all-encompassing set. I'm thinking it would be the labor required to do it and the fact that, for some reason, the MLBPA doesn't see the need for every player that plays in the MLB to have a card. I'd love to see a Pro Set style set (the 1989-91 Pro Set football sets had damn near everybody in them (although with the huge football rosters I'm sure they still missed a couple hundred players a year -- not a problem with baseball). It seems that if Topps is unwilling to do it, there would be a company or two that would jump at the chance just to get their foot in the door.

DeliciousBacon said:

Topps Total used to have hits; each set had a handful of absolute scrub autos that came in every few hundred/thousand packs. Plus the plates; I know they put plates in at least the 2005 Total because I pulled a Juan Uribe a few years ago. Besides, Opening Day must do well enough if they keep doing it every year, and no one buys that for the scrub autos.

Click to expand...

Yeah, no clue why they keep doing Opening Day when they could do a larger set with everybody in it. The cards of the bench warmers on my favorite team were one of the things that made me love this hobby back in the early 80's. At least back then when Topps missed a player there was a decent chance that Donruss or Fleer (and later Score & Upper Deck) would make up for it.

DeliciousBacon said:

Topps Total used to have hits; each set had a handful of absolute scrub autos that came in every few hundred/thousand packs. Plus the plates; I know they put plates in at least the 2005 Total because I pulled a Juan Uribe a few years ago. Besides, Opening Day must do well enough if they keep doing it every year, and no one buys that for the scrub autos.

Click to expand...

And here you have the answer.

Get rid of Topps Opening Day; after all, who really cares about the product? Replace it with something Topps Total-esque, with a few decent and worthwhile hits scattered throughout.

Hobbyists would pay for a 792 card set that had very few actually good hits. Eliminate the "no-name" autographs, and simply insert a limited number of autographs of the true stars of the game.

For example, include autographs of 30 stars - 15 retired, 15 current. Limited them to 100 of each.