#1/1 LOST IN MAIL; LISTED AND SOLD ON eBAY; WHAT TO DO?

I purchased a 2007 Topps Finest White Border Xfractor Pedro Martinez #1/1 from a board member on the Transactions board here a little over a month or ago. Card was shipped in a non-padded mailer and the envelope was received torn with a huge hole in the middle with a note stating 'Received w/o Contents' from my local Post Office. Ok, I chalked it up to bad luck. Hadn't lost a card in the mail in the last three years or so, so I figured maybe I was due. Plus I obtained the card for next to nothing ($12) so it wasn't a big loss. I was even contacted by a few of the Pedro collectors on this board about selling them the card if I wanted to move it. After explaining the situation I asked a couple to keep their eyes peeled for this Pedro card on eBay since they probably check for Pedro stuff much more often than I do. Well I get a message from one of our members yesterday asking if this http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONLY-1-MADE...0273565318?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item5d3229e686 is the card in question? Bingo. Sold by another Florida account (I'm in Florida as well). I messaged the seller asking how he obtained the card but have yet to get anything back from him/her. Now my question for the masses of FCB.......how should I handle this situation? I can't exactly get this card back, I know that. I won't get my $12 back either, I know that. But what I want is someone to be accountable for this blatant MAIL FRAUD. Either the seller bought this card from someone who stole it out of the mail, or the seller has a job at the Post Office and likes to open envelopes that aren't addressed to him/her. Either what exactly are my best options?

How you handle this is really determined by the proof that you can establish. It sucks for sure, but if you are going to make a claim against any persons, you will need to be able to show proof. Good luck on getting the card.

Win the card so you can get the seller's name and address. Then you can check to see if they work for the post office? Might be a lot of trouble and as you said the seller may have bought it elsewhere but would be interesting to find out

I agree that it is about establishing proof. Best you can do is gather anything you can pertaining to the situation and take it to the Post office. Even without rock solid proof the post master will sometimes at least investigate.

jumbojohnny said:

How you handle this is really determined by the proof that you can establish. It sucks for usre, but if you are going to make a claim against any presons, you will need to be able to show proof. Good luck on getting the card.

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I guess for solid proof, I have the empty envelope w/ PO note that the card was shipped to me in and the various PMs from the original seller and I here outlining the sale. I'm sure anyone could go to the 'Search' and type in 'Pedro Martinez' for threads in the "Transactions" section and be able to find the thread in which the card was For Sale here http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=152960&p=2110586#p2110586

Brewer Andy said:

Win the card so you can get the seller's name and address. Then you can check to see if they work for the post office? Might be a lot of trouble and as you said the seller may have bought it elsewhere but would be interesting to find out

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I can't win the card because it was already purchased. I could buy something else from the same seller to get his information but can't buy the actual card because it was sold to someone else.

Sounds like a whole lot of work for $12
If its me, I just move on

That seller probably isn't your thief based on his ID and past feedback. He sells a lot of cards so he probably bought it from your thief. I would think a thief at the post office would A) not be dumb enough to sell his booty on eBay and B) would sell a variety of items and not just cards

Probably nothing you can do, unfortunately

I'm a little in shock that the card in question just sold for over $100

Since it only cost you twelve bucks, I'd move on... Way too much angst with no chance of reward.

Keyser Soze said:

That seller probably isn't your thief based on his ID and past feedback. He sells a lot of cards so he probably bought it from your thief. I would think a thief at the post office would A) not be dumb enough to sell his booty on eBay and B) would sell a variety of items and not just cards

Probably nothing you can do, unfortunately

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Just got a message back from the seller saying they purchased the card at the Oldsmar Flea Market from a couple who was selling cards. Oldsmar is about 20 minutes away, I'll be making a trip there this weekend to ask some questions.

Joshua.Roundtree said:

[quote="Keyser Soze":uyh7yn15]That seller probably isn't your thief based on his ID and past feedback. He sells a lot of cards so he probably bought it from your thief. I would think a thief at the post office would A) not be dumb enough to sell his booty on eBay and B) would sell a variety of items and not just cards

Probably nothing you can do, unfortunately

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Just got a message back from the seller saying they purchased the card at the Oldsmar Flea Market from a couple who was selling cards. Oldsmar is about 20 minutes away, I'll be making a trip there this weekend to ask some questions.[/quote:uyh7yn15]

Where is your nearest sort facility in relation to your local PO and this flea market? You can narrow it down that way possibly to determine if the perp is working at the sort facility or actually at your local PO. Although I am not sure what you could do about it other than notify the postmaster that they have a thief in their midst

Also, if you do go to the flea market, ask the person working there if the person they bought this card from is someone they see often. This person could sell all of his loot there. Then report that to the postmaster. They may investigate if they have some good leads

Keyser Soze said:

Also, if you do go to the flea market, ask the person working there if the person they bought this card from is someone they see often. This person could sell all of his loot there. Then report that to the postmaster. They may investigate if they have some good leads

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I'm thinking the people selling the cards at the Flea Market probably buy from this person often, or are the actual thieves themselves. Why else would you sell a #1/1 of a VERY popular player at a Flea Market where you might get ten people a weekend who are there interested in buying cards. I'm guessing they didn't want to list it online, let someone else purchase from them and then try to list.

The last sort facility it went to was in Tampa, which is just across the Bay. Oldsmar is between Clearwater and Tampa.

I'm going to take the empty envelope with note to my Post Office and ask if anybody else has been complaining about the same thing, but I think I'll go to the Flea Market first. Maybe even take a picture of this couple to bring to the Postmaster just in case he recognizes one of them from one of his stations or sort facilities. Its been about a month since this card was lost. And the card was listed on eBay towards the end of January. If the eBay seller bought it at the Flea Market it couldn't have changed hands that many more times between the time it was lost and the time it appeared on eBay.

Good luck with this! I think if you have the time, you should continue to follow your leads as far as you can. It doesn't matter that it's a $12 card.
Someone should be held accountable!

1. Get a written statement notarized by the seller on FCB that he shipped that card to you, with the tracking info on the statement. Also he should put a scan of the card on the paperwork, and ID the card in the auction.

2. Print off the ebay sellers info, and the completed auction.

3. Take it all (the written statement from the seller, the torn envelope, and the ebay sellers info) to the ebay sellers police department. He may or may not be the one that stole it. Just because he said he bought it from a couple at a flea market, doesnt mean its true. Let the police do all the investigating. If the seller is in fact innocent of the theft, technically, he did receive stolen goods. a visit from the local PD may jog his memory a bit more than a faceless guy messaging on ebay, or a random weirdo fussing at a flea market.


It doesnt matter that its just 12 bucks. mail fraud is a felony.

While I admire you tenacity in getting to the bottom of the situation, I think you are totally wasting your time and dragging on your frustration over the entire deal.

I also think it's quite a jump to come to the conclusion that this mail fraud. A more plausible explanation...

Who's to say the card didn't actually fall out during the shipping process? Envelopes are machine fed if I'm not mistaken and your case is a perfect example of why you don't send cards in a PWE. Not to mention they can be bent, damaged, or in this case, torn envelope, where the card falls out completely. It could very well have been the case that the machine ate the envelope and spit the card to the floor, only later to be found with no way to match it up to who sent it. Your package could have been long gone before the Pedro was found sitting there on the sort floor, and could very well have been sitting there with 10 other items that fell out from other packages.

I don't know what postal regulations are on what they do with stuff like this, but I mean really, what are they expected to do in a situation like this? There is no way they can be expected to solve the issue and match the item back up with the envelope.

I think it's a bit over the top to jump to the conclusion of mail fraud, especially when there is a much more plausible explanation.

Edit - just to add a thought to this as a possible solution for those that insist on sending items with a PWE - put the return address and the addressee on a piece of paper in the toploader and tape it shut. This way there would be no excuse as to why the item wasn't received and the post office actually could match it up with correct receiver and get it there, even without an envelope - or they'd put it in a postal shipping bag and get it to you.

I say, as long as you have the will to track down the perpetrator(s), go for it. If people just give up and don't pursue a lead, the thief wins, and they will continue this practice until they are caught.

Joshua.Roundtree said:

jumbojohnny said:

How you handle this is really determined by the proof that you can establish. It sucks for usre, but if you are going to make a claim against any presons, you will need to be able to show proof. Good luck on getting the card.

Click to expand...

I guess for solid proof, I have the empty envelope w/ PO note that the card was shipped to me in and the various PMs from the original seller and I here outlining the sale. I'm sure anyone could go to the 'Search' and type in 'Pedro Martinez' for threads in the "Transactions" section and be able to find the thread in which the card was For Sale here http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=152960&p=2110586#p2110586

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Proof that you received an empty envelope is a start. As for PMs that are sent here, they are speculatory and suggestive at best. You would need reciepts or some other forms of proof to show that you are the rightful and legal owner of the item.

As for everybody posting about the person that sold it at the flea and reporting them - I too have bought auctioned lots from the USPS and each lot will contain a variety of unclaimed items. I also know a few other people that do this and sell at the local flea market in my area. So there are multiple ways to obtain items that get lost in the mail.

Again, good luck to the OP. I hope you will end up with the card in the end.

Bill Menard said:

Edit - just to add a thought to this as a possible solution for those that insist on sending items with a PWE - put the return address and the addressee on a piece of paper in the toploader and tape it shut. This way there would be no excuse as to why the item wasn't received and the post office actually could match it up with correct receiver and get it there, even without an envelope - or they'd put it in a postal shipping bag and get it to you.

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Sounds like a great idea to me.

I would be pretty upset if such a thing happened to me. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.