109 Bowman Blue Wave Redemption Packs - Screwed

[Bob Loblaw]

Topps' attorneys are busy with litigation with Panini over the word and usage of Chromium. Quick; draft a emergency motion for a TRO (temporary restraining order) and prevent them from packing out any more; then file suit for illegal trade practices and your damages.....

It sucks, but I highly doubt they're going to do anything but pat you on the head and say thanks for buying Topps.

 

[A_Pharis]

Yes. I spoke with Mark Sapir on the phone yesterday and he did just that. He said that as long as every auto was packed out he didn't care how they were distributed from there.

And there you go. It's not about playing a "contrarian" - it's about people thinking they are owed something when they aren't. Just because someone calculated the odds doens't mean the way autos fall have to follow those odds. Some people are going to do better than average - some are going to do worse. There is no way for you to possibly account for EVERY pack that gets opened. You cannot dispute that at all. As long as there are no stated guarantees for receiving a certain number of autos per packs that you are sen t- then no one is shorted ANYTHING. You just had crap-ass luck.

Something is to be said, however, about all of the outright accusations of backdooring with no proof or indication - at all - that it happened. It's amazing to me that people have this mentality:

"Extra packs/hits? Score!" "Not getting the CALCULATED odds? SOMEONE IS BACKDOORING!"

Sit back and read that, man. It's pretty crazy.

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

So just to be clear once again, there were no stated odds.

Since you want to berate this point (it is at least the 3rd time you've dedicated a post to it), how about you explain to me from a "reasonableness" perspective how they manage to pack out the Red Waves perfectly on the calculated odds, yet the autos are falling well off the mathematical odds and to this point nobody has reported receiving autos at a rate better than 1 in 5.26 packs.

 

[markakis8]

And there you go. It's not about playing a "contrarian" - it's about people thinking they are owed something when they aren't. Just because someone calculated the odds doens't mean the way autos fall have to follow those odds. Some people are going to do better than average - some are going to do worse. There is no way for you to possibly account for EVERY pack that gets opened. You cannot dispute that at all. As long as there are no stated guarantees for receiving a certain number of autos per packs that you are sen t- then no one is shorted ANYTHING. You just had crap-ass luck.

Something is to be said, however, about all of the outright accusations of backdooring with no proof or indication - at all - that it happened. It's amazing to me that people have this mentality:

"Extra packs/hits? Score!" "Not getting the CALCULATED odds? SOMEONE IS BACKDOORING!"

Sit back and read that, man. It's pretty crazy.

You don't find it odd that he hit the EXACT number of red waves each time?

 

[A_Pharis]

Topps' attorneys are busy with litigation with Panini over the word and usage of Chromium. Quick; draft a emergency motion for a TRO (temporary restraining order) and prevent them from packing out any more; then file suit for illegal trade practices and your damages.....

It sucks, but I highly doubt they're going to do anything but pat you on the head and say thanks for buying Topps.

I know you're joking around, but the packs are supposedly all out today... and Topps could claim there's no damages monetarily from their end since the packs ar considered a free bonus for returning packs. Damage would be incurred once value is assigned by someone selling packs, right?

 

[A_Pharis]

You don't find it odd that he hit the EXACT number of red waves each time?

Odd? Sure.
Proof that they are being backdoored? No.

No stated odds = no guarantee. Period. All Topps has to say is "All subjects signed. All were packed out." and dust their hands off.

 

[Boylen33]

One more small problem with this math. "Hypothetically" if these autos are getting back-doored, wouldn't the buyer be selling them on ebay?

How can you prove they aren't?

 

[James52411]

The autographs were packed out and then those packs were back doored. Problem solved.

 

[A_Pharis]

How can you prove they aren't?

Very valid question. All of these statistics about what's showing up, being sold or being reported is all speculative and based on a limited pool of available information.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Since you want to berate this point (it is at least the 3rd time you've dedicated a post to it), how about you explain to me from a "reasonableness" perspective how they manage to pack out the Red Waves perfectly on the calculated odds, yet the autos are falling well off the mathematical odds and to this point nobody has reported receiving autos at a rate better than 1 in 5.26 packs.

Relax jim, i know you take most of this stuff fairly personally, i'm pointing out the screams of fraud or you were treated unfairly are hollow if there are no odds, period.


your assumptions were based on caluculations you have no way of verifiying, once again, period.


Topps promised you nothing in terms of odds and from my perspective, they delivered on that.

 

[bcubs]

Odd? Sure.
Proof that they are being backdoored? No.

No stated odds = no guarantee. Period. All Topps has to say is "All subjects signed. All were packed out." and dust their hands off.

Can you be so naive after all the other manufacturer issues over the years to think there are no possible shady actions are occurring here? Sure, I agree that when people beat the odds no one gives back to make it square, but that's not the issue at hand here. It's an open board and you can make that an issue if you want I suppose. The point is the integrity of the process is in question, based on the hand collation and labeling of boxes alone that raises valid questions that people have a right to ask.

 

[Russ S.]

The point is the integrity of the process is in question, based on the hand collation and labeling of boxes alone that raises valid questions that people have a right to ask.

BINGO

 

[George_Calfas]

OP could have received zero autos as well. These were packed out and sent to collectors insanely fast. For once Topps seems to be taking care of collectors.

Lets be honest, some people could might beat the "odds" and receive autos above the norm while others get "screwed" and receive fewer. OP ran the risk of busting these packs, you win some and you lose some.

 

[A_Pharis]

If it's happened so many times before, then who's more in the wrong - the company or the people that continue to purchase from the company?
I see no questions asked here other than those looking for clarification and basis of accusation.
People need to get a grip on the difference between "possibility of shading actions" and "shady actions happening with proof." One of these is grounds for accusation. Once, again - everyone in the vicinity of a crime is "possibly a culprit," but only one of them "IS a culprit."

 

[A_Pharis]

BINGO

And if they were machine collated, every single one of the autos would have been sent back for not grading a 9+ from machine damage.

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

And there you go. It's not about playing a "contrarian" - it's about people thinking they are owed something when they aren't. Just because someone calculated the odds doens't mean the way autos fall have to follow those odds. Some people are going to do better than average - some are going to do worse. There is no way for you to possibly account for EVERY pack that gets opened. You cannot dispute that at all. As long as there are no stated guarantees for receiving a certain number of autos per packs that you are sen t- then no one is shorted ANYTHING. You just had crap-ass luck.

Something is to be said, however, about all of the outright accusations of backdooring with no proof or indication - at all - that it happened. It's amazing to me that people have this mentality:

"Extra packs/hits? Score!" "Not getting the CALCULATED odds? SOMEONE IS BACKDOORING!"

Sit back and read that, man. It's pretty crazy.

If there wasn't substantial proof and history to backup the backdoor theory, then it wouldn't be brought up. There are people claiming to have bought 2010 BC redemption packs directly from Topps CS, in fact I'm currently in a dialog with him via PM on Blowout. Beyond that I've personally received a couple cards that were sent out the backdoor. I have an uncut sheet of 07 BC that is hanging in my basement that came from inside. I know a Red Refractor sheet from that same product came out. I also have an 06 Sterling Black Refractor of Adrian Cardenas that is missing the auto and serialization. We've seen all the 06 BC Gold Refractors without serial numbers that have been sold on ebay. Why is this so hard to believe?

I'm a vice president in a business that has 160 employees. We try to hire the best people, but inevitably we've had some that weren't trustworthy. We've had people steal inventory, alter sales orders and steal cash out of drawers, we've even had people steal toilet paper. Why is it so far fetched to believe that an "underpaid" customer service person with access to a box that says "AUTO PACKS" could find a way to sell these packs for personal gain and not put them fairly into the hands of people that submitted wrappers? Does that sound so far beyond the realm of possibility?

 

[thefatguy]

Wasn't this all free stuff that wasn't originally announced anyway?
To appease the case buyers into getting g more value?
Did these packs cost you anything?



Stop. Buying. Topps.

When will you learn?

 

[A_Pharis]

I agree, George. Maybe the OP shouldn't have banked on these bonuses for return? Sounds like he threw the dice... lost... and is now playing the girlfriend scorned.

 

[A_Pharis]

If there wasn't substantial proof and history to backup the backdoor theory, then it wouldn't be brought up. There are people claiming to have bought 2010 BC redemption packs directly from Topps CS, in fact I'm currently in a dialog with him via PM on Blowout. Beyond that I've personally received a couple cards that were sent out the backdoor. I have an uncut sheet of 07 BC that is hanging in my basement that came from inside. I know a Red Refractor sheet from that same product came out. I also have an 06 Sterling Black Refractor of Adrian Cardenas that is missing the auto and serialization. We've seen all the 06 BC Gold Refractors without serial numbers that have been sold on ebay. Why is this so hard to believe?

I'm a vice president in a business that has 160 employees. We try to hire the best people, but inevitably we've had some that weren't trustworthy. We've had people steal inventory, alter sales orders and steal cash out of drawers, we've even had people steal toilet paper. Why is it so far fetched to believe that an "underpaid" customer service person with access to a box that says "AUTO PACKS" could find a way to sell these packs for personal gain and not put them fairly into the hands of people that submitted wrappers? Does that sound so far beyond the realm of possibility?

So you complain about backdooring... but claim to have purchased backdoored items.

SEEMS LEGIT.

Edit: And, to add... possibility != reality.... and != is code for "is not equal to".

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

Wasn't this all free stuff that wasn't originally announced anyway?
To appease the case buyers into getting g more value?
Did these packs cost you anything?



Stop. Buying. Topps.

When will you learn?

The Blue Wave pack redemption program was part of the original solicitation. If this had been added late in the game like they did in 2010 with a failing Bowman Chrome product, then you could say that these packs were free, but this product was SOLD with the promotion of this pack redemption. These packs weren't free, they were part of the initial offering that convinced me and thousands of others to buy in.