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Online retailer NOT honoring BCDP Jumbo case purchases

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wolfmanalfredo

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I feel there are valid points on both sides.

On ASC side I'm with the members posting that you have to accept a level of risk when selling something you don't physically own. As an online retailer, before assuming this risk, I'd personally be doing everything possible to make sure every fine print is read twice over to try and avoid something like this. I'm not accusing anybody of not being cautious, but there is a level of self accountability that needs to happen. I personally feel that offering a refund is 1 right way to go about it, but I can see how it hurts future business without some added compensation.

On Topps side, I see the argument that they can't just come out and say, "oh by the way, the ratio is 1 jumbo to 6 hobby if you want to fulfill your order."

In a sense that doesn't exactly sit well personally. What I think happened was that once all these orders were sent in to topps, they looked everything over and said, "oh XXXX! Look at all these jumbo orders and lack of regular case orders."

They have to clear their warehouse, and I have to assume that the overwhelming number of jumbo orders and lack of regular orders kind of forced them to make a brash decision. I'm not sure it was well thought out on their part, but if they need to move the product, I can sort of see where they are coming from.

I'm not sure where I stand on this as I see problems and faults with both sides of the argument. I guess I'm in a grey area.
 

Pine Tar

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Richard,

Guess what, I didn't even order any. So, I also do not have a horse in this race. Just passing along information and giving my opinion. I guess in your theory, I should start selling the BCDP SOler superfractor on ebay. I am pre-selling it. If I don't pull it, I can blame Topps for not fulfilling their end of the bargain.

Topps isn't promising ATL or Blowout an allocation before they start to pre-sell. Meaning, they are jumping the damn gone to start bringing in cash flow and locking in buyers. Wouldn't it be prudent to pre-sell closer to release date? Avoid the risk? Have a confirmed allocation?

:lol: nice Matt. And no you should not list that card on eBay, since you did n9t even buy this product.
 

D-Lite

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I think Topps needs more competition.

Also, everyone only cares about the hits. Topps releases products with varying degrees of hits and of course everyone wants the Jumbo where the best value lies. Basically, instead of Topps trying to mess with allocation, they should price the jumbo according to the actual hit ratio (or near enough). Say 250% of a regular hobby box. That's basically what's happening at the middleman anyway.

I'm also thinking Blowout is probably going to do quite nicely either way. They're making a good profit on the jumbo and they'll be able to sell the hobby at or just below cost no matter what since the jumbo supply is pretty much going to be evaporated upon release anyway. Where else will people get the product at the prices jumbo is going for??

Besides, you're all stupid for buying these jumbo boxes/cases. I'm going for the Target/WalMart value boxes where the hits will be anyways...
 

Pine Tar

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I think Topps needs more competition.

Also, everyone only cares about the hits. Topps releases products with varying degrees of hits and of course everyone wants the Jumbo where the best value lies. Basically, instead of Topps trying to mess with allocation, they should price the jumbo according to the actual hit ratio (or near enough). Say 250% of a regular hobby box. That's basically what's happening at the middleman anyway.

I'm also thinking Blowout is probably going to do quite nicely either way. They're making a good profit on the jumbo and they'll be able to sell the hobby at or just below cost no matter what since the jumbo supply is pretty much going to be evaporated upon release anyway. Where else will people get the product at the prices jumbo is going for??

Besides, you're all stupid for buying these jumbo boxes/cases. I'm going for the Target/WalMart value boxes where the hits will be anyways...

laughn.gif
 

moxacaine

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I dont see why the retailers are at fault here. Theyre just going off the norm of what happens every year. its not their fault Topps decided to change things up. I do think it would be funny if a lot of these big dealers decided to not order any at all in boycott. It would never happen but it would be great to see.
 

Leaf

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I actually prefer to buy from Josh as well. So I am not trying to trash him.

I also don't see this as a Topps issue. They have done this before with Bowman Jumbo, so this is NOT new. Also, I guarantee you that these same retailers will have jumbo cases in stock when they release, trust me. I will also guarantee the price will be higher than what they sold them previously for.

Actually, they have never done a 6:1 ratio.. These shenanigans are completely new.. Crazy!
 

ballerskrip

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Actually, they have never done a 6:1 ratio.. These shenanigans are completely new.. Crazy!

They did have ratios in the past, correct? I remember Andrew MANY times coming here discussing how many hobby he had to buy to get jumbos, or his distributor did.
 

ballerskrip

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Next question. Are the big RIPPERS on this board getting all of their jumbos they ordered? Haven't seen any of them chiming in on this thread.
 

Jaypers

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Next question. Are the big RIPPERS on this board getting all of their jumbos they ordered? Haven't seen any of them chiming in on this thread.

No longer a ripper, but I have a jumbo case coming. Looking forward to flipping it, eventually.
 

All In Cards

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They did have ratios in the past, correct? I remember Andrew MANY times coming here discussing how many hobby he had to buy to get jumbos, or his distributor did.

yes yes

for 2012 Bowman and other products that had jumbo the ratio was always 2 to 1. 2 hobby cases for 1 jumbo case.

now 6 to 1 is crazy. I put in for 10 jumbo. I cant see myself taking on 60 hobby cases.

and the big boys got the same email. 60 jumbo ordered = 360 hobby.

Dont forget the main difference in the # of autos. You still get the exact same # of chrome cards.
 

craftysouthpaw

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Chris - quick question. Your article noted BO just stopped preselling on the website but when did they start? I've been checking pretty consistently since they first put the links up on their site and for many weeks there has been no option to pre-order jumbo - just hobby. Did they just start in the past few days? I haven't checked in a week or so.
 

cgilmo

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Chris - quick question. Your article noted BO just stopped preselling on the website but when did they start? I've been checking pretty consistently since they first put the links up on their site and for many weeks there has been no option to pre-order jumbo - just hobby. Did they just start in the past few days? I haven't checked in a week or so.


it was a VERY small window.


most of the sales were done via "call for price"
 

BowmanChromeAddict

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As Andrew stated, even the big rippers, myself and BrentandBecca included were contacted either by email or phone call and were handed the same allocation of 6:1.

I contacted Brent and he indicated that he would most likely be passing on Bowman Draft. It has not been a solid profit maker for him and with the typical release falling around the holidays it has cost him valuable time with his family so why bother with too little profit at risk.

I have not yet decided what I will do.

I do think there is one point that has not been brought up that is sadly missing. Topps makes to order, so it is imperative that dealers like Blowout and ATL pre-sell so that they know what to order from Topps (obviously adding a percentage on top for non-preorders) and then Topps knows how much to make. In this case Topps clearly had a breakdown in mind of how many hobby v. jumbo cases they wanted to make or needed to based upon the added content in Jumbo and the serial numbering of that content. When all the pre-orders came in and presumably overwhelmingly Jumbo, Topps had to dictate back to these dealers that the rate of 6:1 was needed to meet their production needs. The 6:1 ratio was clearly as a result of preorders being so heavily weighted towards jumbo.

Clearly the only thing for Topps to do here is to figure out how to add significant value to Hobby so that we don't see the horrific disparity that resulted with 2012 Bowman. I'm not sure how they are going to do it, but they should be releasing an announcement to explain how otherwise if every one of ATL's customers cancel then the total production of BDP will be incredibly small.

I was attracted to Jumbo obviously for the added content, but when you're ripping big, having less boxes to open and less packs to rip is a HUGE benefit. I busted 40 2011 BDP hobby cases last year. By the end I was darn near in tears from my finger hurting and the shear lack of sleep and I had help from Carl. I was thrilled to have the jumbo option this year to save my hands, and save me time opening and especially sorting.
 

leatherman

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I essentially stopped selling cases in 2008 when I got stuck with 20 cases of Bowman Chrome. I had been buying 20-40 cases of Bowman Chrome and Bowman Draft for a few years and had a lot of buyers from the Beckett boards that were regular customers. However, Topps mass produced 2008 BC and the price kept going down before release and continued to bottom out after release. There were some sellers selling cases at $45 per box (which was the distributor price directly from Topps), when the price from my distributor was $52 per box. Suddenly, all my buyers backed out, and when I say all, I mean ALL. The price never recovered, and I lost my ass. I had never asked for any money up front, and it cost me dearly. All of my cash was tied up in a dead product that nobody wanted, and I had no money when 2008 Draft was released. I eventually sold most of it at $30-35 per box, and I only sold 2 or 3 full cases. I lost around $4000 on that round because there was no accountability for the customer.

When I hear customers complain about sellers backing out, it bothers me because they are under no pressure whatsoever. Sellers are under the thumb of Topps, and if Topps decides the ratios for purchasing, there is nothing they can do. As far back as I can remember, products with Jumbos were under a 3 box to 1 box ratio for hobby. Since hobby cases are 12 boxes and Jumbo cases are 8 boxes, that comes out to a 2 case to 1 ratio. It has never been any more than that. I am sure that all sellers presell based on this history, so to hear that it went to three times that ratio is unfortunate, but holding a seller's feet to the fire is unfair. Trust me, if they had any idea that the ratios were going to be so ridiculous, they would have sold them accordingly. Buyers haven't lost a damn thing because of this unfortunate situation that Topps created. The sellers are the only ones who lose out in this situation, so complaining about them not honoring their commitments is nothing more than an emotional response to a situation that is out of the seller's control. Don't like it? Then get a business license and preorder directly from a distributor, and let me know how that works out for you when they tell you that the ratio is now 6:1.
 

BowmanChromeAddict

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Topps does not make to order on everything.

And when orders get too high they WILL cut them.

Okay, you clearly know more than I do, so paint a picture for me of what's going to happen at Topps when 90% of ATL's preorders get cancelled (I'm sure ATL isn't the only one delivering this bad news, just most likely the biggest). Is Topps going to be sitting on that product because you're saying they don't make everything to order or are they going to cut production to meet a now diminished demand?
 

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