Greinke breaks his collar bone

[lisu]

I did watch The video. Didn't look at all intentional and there was zero effort to move away. Quentin is clearly wrong.

Greinke did not help matters by saying anything, but Quentin has to control himself in those situations.


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Sure, Quentin shouldn't have charged him, but no one likes a high fastball that comes too fast for them to react. You'd like to think they have the opportunity to get out of the way, but it does happen. Greinke should have just let Quentin tackle him if he's not going to defend himself properly. Putting your shoulder into a big guy like that isn't the best idea. Where was his catcher and his teammates in that situation? His catcher should have grabbed Quentin.

 

[ronniedp23]

Sure, Quentin shouldn't have charged him, but no one likes a high fastball that comes too fast for them to react. You'd like to think they have the opportunity to get out of the way, but it does happen. Greinke should have just let Quentin tackle him if he's not going to defend himself properly. Putting your shoulder into a big guy like that isn't the best idea. Where was his catcher and his teammates in that situation? His catcher should have grabbed Quentin.

I agree with all of this. I still think that Quentin is way in the wrong, and the fact that the catcher didn't restrain him doesn't alleviate Quentin's responsibility for the decision.. I also think Greinke was wrong to open his mouth.

I think when you take everything into consideration this is worth a 10 or 15 game suspension.

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[bigbov]

What I am trying to understand is the difference between Quentin charging and any "normal" charging of the mound (which results in roughly 5 games suspended). The breaking of the collar bone is moot, because it's an UNINTENDED consequence of charging the mound. If Greinke had thrown a punch and broke his fist - should Quentin be suspended for as long as Greinke is out? No. Why? Because that would have been an unintended consequence of the action. It was a fight - Greinke braced himself wrong and it resulted in a freak break. Hell - for all we know - Quentin could have just grabbed him and threw him to the ground, and Greinke could have broke every bone in his body. Does that mean Quentin should be punished harsher than any other guy that slings a pitcher to the ground?
No. 5 games is enough. The guy charged the mound, Greinke CHOSE to stand ground... and the result is an unnatural result of a mound charge.

I undersand your dismay as a Dodger fan, but that's what it is.

Only problem with this is that all forms of punishment are result oriented... Ex: two bar fights w/ 1 punch thrown in each. First fight ends up w/ guy having black eye and probably no charges. Second fight ends up w/ guy falling and hitting his head or breaking his neck. Whole set of charges. Each action was the same though. I'm obv biased as a Dodgers fans but if Quentin goes to 1st like he is supposed to... Grienkes collarbone isn't broken.

 

[PeteD]

Insane in da membrane.

 

[jaydub]

[MENTION=2110]lisu[/MENTION] even your boy Vogelsong thinks CQ is a turd

"The guy hammers balls over the plate and then gets pissed when you throw them inside," Vogelsong said. "Doesn't make sense."

Vogelsong criticizes Quentin after loss to Padres | CSN Bay Area

Another item:

Dylan Hernandez ‏@dylanohernandez 11h
A.J. Ellis said #Padres players apologized for Quentin's actions. "It's not right, it's not right," he said one player told him.

 

[lisu]

@lisu even your boy Vogelsong thinks CQ is a turd

"The guy hammers balls over the plate and then gets pissed when you throw them inside," Vogelsong said. "Doesn't make sense."

Vogelsong criticizes Quentin after loss to Padres | CSN Bay Area

Another item:

Dylan Hernandez ‏@dylanohernandez 11h
A.J. Ellis said #Padres players apologized for Quentin's actions. "It's not right, it's not right," he said one player told him.

I don't care what Vogelsong thinks in this situation (and I bet he would have given CQ a better fight). If you're going to mouth off after hitting someone in the shoulder/arm area, then be prepared to defend yourself. I'm not saying that CQ should have charged Greinke, but it's obvious that he lost if after what Greinke said to him.

 

[jbhofmann]

You guys are acting shocked that a hitter charged the mound. This has been going on for the past 140 years.

Injuries happen.

I have no sympathy for injuries sustained in a brawl. I've listened to Cardinal fans cry about Cueto kicking LaRue in the face. Guess what? Don't pin someone against a barrier and expect them to sit idle.

I bet Greinke is embarrassed more than anything because he looks like a chump after getting rocked.

 

[A_Pharis]

Only problem with this is that all forms of punishment are result oriented... Ex: two bar fights w/ 1 punch thrown in each. First fight ends up w/ guy having black eye and probably no charges. Second fight ends up w/ guy falling and hitting his head or breaking his neck. Whole set of charges. Each action was the same though. I'm obv biased as a Dodgers fans but if Quentin goes to 1st like he is supposed to... Grienkes collarbone isn't broken.

Not a good comparison. The difference is the context. This is a cut and dry "charged the mound" situation. Punishment should reflect the action, not the incidental result. This same fight could happen 100 times in the same exact way and not end up with the pitcher gettin a broken bone. Quentin's punishment shouldn't be more brutal due to Greinke's fragility.

 

[lisu]

Greinke actually thought he would take on the Padres’ Carlos Quentin in a mound confrontation after hitting him with a pitch in the sixth inning, throwing down his glove and saying something to him in macho fashion as if to prove something to his new teammates?

Quote from another news story. LOL.

 

[morgoth]

Geeze its early Dodger fans, the whining here is getting a little out of hand. It's getting Buster Posey-ish

 

[hive17]

I don't remember Biggio or Rickie Weeks charging the mound after being hit, and they got/get hit a TON.

Bottom line is that any batter who charges the mound is wrong, based on the rules that MLB have historically set.

 

[Waxov]

honestly- don't act like a tough guy unless you are one.

10 times out of 10 hitting a guy with a rock-hard 95mph baseball hurts more than a guy charging you while all your teammates surround him.

 

[A_Pharis]

I don't remember Biggio or Rickie Weeks charging the mound after being hit, and they got/get hit a TON.

Bottom line is that any batter who charges the mound is wrong, based on the rules that MLB have historically set.

Charging the mound is wrong, but the suspension should reflect charging the mound... not Greinke being Mr. Glass.

 

[lisu]

Charging the mound is wrong, but the suspension should reflect charging the mound... not Greinke being Mr. Glass.

Greinke needs to take lessons from Nolan Ryan.

or listen to what Randy Johnson thinks - Randy Johnson blames Greinke for Dodger vs Padres Brawl | Sports Out West

 

[matfanofold]

Clearly it was not intentional, I think every rational viewer understands that as fact. But, in baseball, when you hit a batter you need to be prepared to be charged, intentional or not. As someone already pointed out, this is just part of the game. Did Greinke mouth off after he hit him? Shoot him a 'look'? I don't know. But he without question hit the guy with the ball and that in and of it 'self is enough to make some charge the mound. AS for the catcher and/or 3'rd basemen taking there time (re: not blocking/cutting off CQ...?), who really knows but it looked as if they were cought off guard and reacted instead of pre-emptively intervened.

Honestly, I'm not sure why this has become such a big deal. It's not like he festered over it, premeditated a plan of attack and then in a rage grabbed a bat then charged the mound/team with intent to inflict serious/vicious bodily harm. He just went out there to 'talk' to him...

 

[Waxov]

San Diego Padres, Los Angeles Dodgers brawl after Zack Greinke hits Carlos Quentin with pitch - ESPN Los Angeles

This vid is more clear.. it shows that Greinke does mouth something to him. Also pause at :03... does it even look like he is try to throw low and away? (where the catcher is set up) Who knows for sure, but a guy with a career 2.3bb/9 just missed by 3ish feet.

 

[djrulz]

San Diego Padres, Los Angeles Dodgers brawl after Zack Greinke hits Carlos Quentin with pitch - ESPN Los Angeles

This vid is more clear.. it shows that Greinke does mouth something to him. Also pause at :03... does it even look like he is try to throw low and away? (where the catcher is set up) Who knows for sure, but a guy with a career 2.3bb/9 just missed by 3ish feet.

I was thinking the same thing. The catcher is set up outside. The pitch was high and tight. Looks to me like Greinke is the instigator.

 

[bigbov]

Not a good comparison. The difference is the context. This is a cut and dry "charged the mound" situation. Punishment should reflect the action, not the incidental result. This same fight could happen 100 times in the same exact way and not end up with the pitcher gettin a broken bone. Quentin's punishment shouldn't be more brutal due to Greinke's fragility.

I totally agree but that's not how punishment typically works in our society. I guess another example would be Kermit Washington... there had been several punches thrown before in NBA games and several since. There were several thrown in this very game before his. Why was his punishment the most severe ($10,000 fine and 60 game suspension)... because it badly injured Rudy T.

 

[ronfromfresno]

The overreaction in this situation is from everyone after the fact, due to the severity of Greinke's injuries. If he came out this fine with just a bruise no one cares, no one. But because he's out 6 weeks everyone is up in arms. CQ is definitely in the wrong, but the history between the two suggests that if he's hit, he's going to charge. They're playing a division rival in an emotional, close game, CQ was hit two nights ago, he's been hit several times by Greinke in the AL and Greinke popped off his mouth after hitting him. All of these factors adds up to almost anyone charging the mound.

 

[bigbov]

I don't care what Vogelsong thinks in this situation (and I bet he would have given CQ a better fight). If you're going to mouth off after hitting someone in the shoulder/arm area, then be prepared to defend yourself. I'm not saying that CQ should have charged Greinke, but it's obvious that he lost if after what Greinke said to him.

Only problem w/ this is that Quentin takes 3-4 steps towards the mound before Grienke says a word. Grienke said something in reaction to CQ coming towards him. If he just goes to 1st w/o staring and then walking towards pitcher nothing happens. I'm sure if he charged Cain in the same fashion Giants fans would feel differently. (And I will concede Cain would have put up a much better fight.)