What is an "off eBay" deal mean to you? Different if with a member?

AmishDave · Feb 26, 2014

I've offered, too many times to count, to buy something outright, if it's a JJ or Northcutt that I haven't seen in years or never at all. Most of the time, it's for a price that I deem more than fair to the seller and probably about 25% - 35% more than I'd LIKE to pay, but WILL pay, due to me just wanting to get it into my collection and finish that particular chapter. And, most of the time, the seller's are living on Planet Stasiak, where their value of the card they own that I'd like to get, is astronomically more than anyone else living on the planet, including the players parents & other family members.

Most of the time though, if there isn't a deal hammered out on feeBay, I'm able to win the card for a fraction of what I offered. It helps as player collectors to at least throw an offer out there and the worst the seller can say is, "I'm gonna let it run." The worst is when they say that and then sell to someone else (which has happened to me on several occasions).

Bootstraps9 · Feb 26, 2014

I am appalled by the complaints about ebay's fees. You really don't think eBay deserves a fee for exposing your inventory to a customer base probably at least 100 times larger than any free service out there?

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

Topnotchsy · Feb 26, 2014

When I come across an item on eBay (or list an item on eBay) I won't work a deal for that item "on the side" if that was how the buyer found the item. I will consider engaging in talks with the seller/buyer over other cards if he has things that are not listed or is looking for other items I have. I appreciate the service eBay provides (having recently spoken to an auction house I'm reminded that it is still by far the best deal in town) and I feel they deserve compensation if I use their system.

When it comes to pricing it depends on the type of item. Many of my items do not have a really set price (1/1's etc) so then I negotiate as I would anywhere. If it's a specific item with a specific price and I'm considering the eBay route, I'll go cheaper here since I know that without eBay fees I can get the same net at a lower price.

MansGame · Feb 26, 2014

Bootstraps9 said:
I am appalled by the complaints about ebay's fees. You really don't think eBay deserves a fee for exposing your inventory to a customer base probably at least 100 times larger than any free service out there?

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

I doubt ANYONE could make a true argument for eBay fees being crazy or crazy high given they're the largest outfit to advertise and sell your item, period. That said, you can clearly expose their loop holes by posting on their site, getting everyone to see it and then ripping it down and going outside their "world" to avoid fees. Probably happens ALL the time and it's probably the #1 thing they wish they could minimize.

For example that Mirror Black Maddux was up on eBay for a week at like $10k or something... just to get everyone to see it, advertise it, etc. Then it was pulled down and the seller told me that they basically just wanted to notify the world it was for sale and they got like 10 serious people interested, so they then pulled it down and went to email to take offers from those people and ended up selling for like $6k or someting. Either way, think of the fees they saved there and the money which went directly to the bottom line and eBay saw ZERO from that and basically did all the work lol... I mean you could argue that card doesn't find the buyer without it lol.

Bootstraps9 · Feb 26, 2014

MansGame said:
I doubt ANYONE could make a true argument for eBay fees being crazy or crazy high given they're the largest outfit to advertise and sell your item, period. That said, you can clearly expose their loop holes by posting on their site, getting everyone to see it and then ripping it down and going outside their "world" to avoid fees. Probably happens ALL the time and it's probably the #1 thing they wish they could minimize.

For example that Mirror Black Maddux was up on eBay for a week at like $10k or something... just to get everyone to see it, advertise it, etc. Then it was pulled down and the seller told me that they basically just wanted to notify the world it was for sale and they got like 10 serious people interested, so they then pulled it down and went to email to take offers from those people and ended up selling for like $6k or someting. Either way, think of the fees they saved there and the money which went directly to the bottom line and eBay saw ZERO from that and basically did all the work lol... I mean you could argue that card doesn't find the buyer without it lol.

It definitely happens all the time in sure, as some people in this thread have even said they have done it. The only way to minimize it is user cooperation. Sellers should report buyers interested in off eBay deals. The problem is its in the sellers best interest for that transaction to go off eBay. The paypal and eBay tracing mentioned earlier could be a useful forensic tool for the company but nothing is full proof.

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

Gwynn545 · Feb 26, 2014

[MENTION=3754]MansGame[/MENTION], if you truly are one of the only guys going after Belle, then Ebay would be the best place to buy, then, no? A card starts at .99 and you could get a good deal on it for only a few bids. I feel that if a card (or player) that has a lot of collectors comes up, then as a buyer you'd try to get it "off Ebay" so the price doesn't get bid up exponentially. That's the only reason I'd see to do something "off Ebay" as a buyer.
As a seller, I'd definitely trust someone from FCB 100X more than some no name that messages me on Ebay, and would give a small discount comparatively.

bear0555 · Feb 26, 2014

Many transactions take place off ebay because the users do not feel the ebay fees are reasonable. It's the user's way of fighting back. How often do we hear complaints about Paypal's fees? Only when someone says that the combination of ebay and Paypal fees are too high. What about shipping? Shipping complaints only seem to occur when there is a price increase. However, it seems that there is always someone looking to avoid ebay fees.

As a buyer, I almost never do deals off ebay. It usually isn't worth the time. I do contact sellers for items on my wantlist for years though. As a seller, I have instances where I cannot sell an item because of the ebay fees [buyer makes me offer by messaging me as I don't like negotiating and don't offer best offer a lot of times]. So the option becomes either not selling the item or doing the transaction off ebay. I'm on ebay to sell, and I'd rather make the sale than not.

mrdallas · Feb 26, 2014

I say to each his own, but people that say that people who go outside Ebay should be reported buyer or seller is being for lack of better terms "foolish". If you don't want to take part in the deal off ebay thing that is fine. Don't do it and you can't be harmed. If someone offers to buy something from you off ebay just decline. But to "report" that person is being a bit over the top. Again just decline and you should have no problems, but why fault someone for trying. Are ebay fees high, yes, topped with Paypal fees (which eBay owns) 13% plus. Do they offer a great service I would say yes, but don't fault people for trying to keep more of the pie for themselves. JMHO

Bootstraps9 · Feb 26, 2014

mrdallas said:
I say to each his own, but people that say that people who go outside Ebay should be reported buyer or seller is being for lack of better terms "foolish". If you don't want to take part in the deal off ebay thing that is fine. Don't do it and you can't be harmed. If someone offers to buy something from you off ebay just decline. But to "report" that person is being a bit over the top. Again just decline and you should have no problems, but why fault someone for trying. Are ebay fees high, yes, topped with Paypal fees (which eBay owns) 13% plus. Do they offer a great service I would say yes, but don't fault people for trying to keep more of the pie for themselves. JMHO

They should be reported because they are stealing from eBay. eBay allows you the opportunity to find customers. They have lower fees than any other service that provides a similar opportunity for sellers.

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

mrdallas · Feb 26, 2014

Then I hope you don't do any deals off ebay, just do everything through ebay and that is fine, but I respectively think you are being ridiculous. Do you do your taxes every year? Write anything off recently? Are you stealing from the government? No you are simply using a tool that is provided to you to benefit your position. Please, don't play the Holier than thou, and by all means don't judge people for being resourceful. Stealing it is not

Bootstraps9 said:
They should be reported because they are stealing from eBay. eBay allows you the opportunity to find customers. They have lower fees than any other service that provides a similar opportunity for sellers.

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

mrmopar · Feb 26, 2014

Interesting information. I wouldn't know if they actually work at catching people, but it would surprise me that they would put the effort into it. Maybe it is worth their time though, I don't know. I know they don't seem to give a rip about many of the things they offer as a reason to report items, such as keyword spamming for example. They don't do squat to deter that activity!

Selling off ebay will obviously hurt ebay's ability to collect fees and that would be their main motivation I assume. The BO option allows a quick sale to occur of the price is right and ebay still gets their cut. That is not going to stop people from trying to work a side deal to avoid competing though, which is the main point for buyers I assume. I have offered on items, usually when they are a special serial number, in hopes that the seller doesn't know or care that the card is serial numbered to something unique and avoid the bidding war that usually ensues. I just had a guy come back with an offer that I felt was a bit too aggressive and passed, opting for the auction route. I have also negotiated a price on an auction listing and had the buyer list it as a fixed price BIN for me to win. I don't care either way, because I don't pay the selling fees, I just want the item but can see if the seller may risk their account, it would not be worth it. A simple no solves that issue.

gmsieb said:
OFF EBAY DEAL

For starters, its against ebay rules and if the seller is caught ebay will suspend your acct. @ strikes they can/may kill your acct completely.
They even check paypal accts for wording leaving to proof of a card being sold on ebay, that was ended and try to link buyer/seller convo.

Basically this is how buyers try to save a few bucks, to build in profit. It's a way of saying, hey can you do me a favor and save me $10 bucks,
even though there is nothing in it for you and you may lose your acct, you worked hard to create over 17 years.

Yes, we all did it for years. But it is now death to only the seller. I have been calling and emailing ebay, reporting the 5-10 offers I get a week.
I am a buyer and seller. I don't ask sellers to do this, because I don't want them to risk their acct. I think it's a joke that only the seller gets in trouble for it.
If the seller gets suspended, so should the buyer. But, again, that's not what ebay is after. I am hoping if enough people do it, they wont have a choice.
I am lucky to have a brother who is a president over depts of ebay and paypal, so I hope to see something change.

Bottom line, buyers need to quit asking for this to be done. It's the correct thing to do.
Sellers watch your a$$. They will catch you.

FCB buyers, I always help out where I can with lower price or shipping. I go as low as I can for every one.

RStadlerASU22 · Feb 26, 2014

If you don't like to transact off eBay , either as a buyer or seller , then that is 100% ok.

If you are reporting a buyer or seller who does, attempting or asking to do a transaction off eBay , then wow is about all I can say.

Ryan

mrmopar · Feb 26, 2014

Good point. I have been watching cards that ended and they obviously sold offline. of course that disappoints me, but i have been the buyer in that case before too. I try to reach out to buyers to do the same on something extra special, just in case. I hate to lose items i am watching, but especially hate losing them w/o even having the chance to win them at all!

jpcz said:
I will not ask for a deal off ebay from a seller, but i will message them and tell them i plan to bid so if they are going to take it down early, at least give me a shot. 9/10 times they reply with "i always let my auctions ride" to which i dont respond and snipe it, but that 1 time that someone says they were planning to take it down and shoot them an offer, i do. I dont buy nearly as much anymore on ebay, so when i send that initial email it must be a pretty important piece to me.

mrdallas · Feb 26, 2014

+10000000. That is what I said. WOW. LOL

RStadlerASU22 said:
If you don't like to transact off eBay , either as a buyer or seller , then that is 100% ok.

If you are reporting a buyer or seller who does, attempting or asking to do a transaction off eBay , then wow is about all I can say.

Ryan

Bootstraps9 · Feb 26, 2014

Listing on eBay and then selling off eBay to a customer who found the item through eBay is stealing. You are stealing a service. Tax write-offs are not at all similar to this. Those are reductions in your tax liability because of circumstances or events in your life during the year. Taking false write-offs is stealing from the government. You can justify it all you want for yourself, but it is theft of a service. That is a fact.

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

mrmopar · Feb 26, 2014

Let's play a game of what if. Let's say you list an item on ebay and it doesn't sell after running the course of the listing. You have presumably paid a listing fee for it to sit on their site and be viewed. If it sells, you pay a commission as well, but if it doesn't sell, your transaction is done. Now, let's say someone saw that item, really wanted it, but didn't bid because the price you wanted was too high. They now know you have it, have a way to contact you and the item is no longer listed. You strike a deal "off ebay" and everyone is happy. You paid a minimal "exposure" fee, so ebay got something off the deal (unless they offered free listings too). IS THIS STEALING TOO?

This exact situation is not always true and there are probably 100s if not 1000s of off ebay deals taking place all the time where the item closed early and might have sold. That could very easily be considered stealing, but in my "what if" example, can it truly be considered stealing?

Bootstraps9 · Feb 26, 2014

mrmopar said:
Let's play a game of what if. Let's say you list an item on ebay and it doesn't sell after running the course of the listing. You have presumably paid a listing fee for it to sit on their site and be viewed. If it sells, you pay a commission as well, but if it doesn't sell, your transaction is done. Now, let's say someone saw that item, really wanted it, but didn't bid because the price you wanted was too high. They now know you have it, have a way to contact you and the item is no longer listed. You strike a deal "off ebay" and everyone is happy. You paid a minimal "exposure" fee, so ebay got something off the deal (unless they offered free listings too). IS THIS STEALING TOO?

This exact situation is not always true and there are probably 100s if not 1000s of off ebay deals taking place all the time where the item closed early and might have sold. That could very easily be considered stealing, but in my "what if" example, can it truly be considered stealing?

I would not call that stealing. Cause the person asked off eBay when the card wasn't on eBay. I'm really talking about taking a listing off eBay to sell fee free. Once the listing runs it's time that card is fair game I would say. Kind of a loophole but every rule has loopholes

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

Musial Collector · Feb 26, 2014

Yikes, I thought I had seen and heard it all until tonight with people saying Im gonna tattle on you to ebay if try and use ebay to work an off ebay deal with me.

I recently bought an item from a seller on ebay. I bought thru ebay an paid thru paypal, so ebay got all their fees on that item. However we got to talking via email as we had each others addresses via paypal and he has numerous other items and we worked an off ebay deal for some of those other items. Feel free to tattle on me for striking up a conversation with a seller with one deal that ebay profited off of and creating another one that they didnt get jack for.

:facepalm:

mrdallas · Feb 26, 2014

I am sorry but say someone sees i am selling something on Ebay but knows i am a member here and asks to work out a deal here instead. Guess i should let ebay know.and make sure to give them there 13 percent because the item was first spotted there . Come on.. Really? according to you their service is how my card was spotted so by all means give them their money. Ridiculous. I am not justifying anything to myself just trying to figure out why is upsets you so much.

Bootstraps9 said:
Listing on eBay and then selling off eBay to a customer who found the item through eBay is stealing. You are stealing a service. Tax write-offs are not at all similar to this. Those are reductions in your tax liability because of circumstances or events in your life during the year. Taking false write-offs is stealing from the government. You can justify it all you want for yourself, but it is theft of a service. That is a fact.

Ogando, Michael Young, Leonys Martin and all Texas Rangers

MansGame · Feb 26, 2014

Yea, I have to agree with the turning people into the eBay police every time you get a PM about doing a deal off "eBay"

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