Wow... explain THIS Topps!

predatorkj said:

Unique...come on man. Who cares what the auto goes for? The point is, the OP has a very legitimate beef and it's one we've seen a lot of times before. And it would be very easy for topps to have a computerized database of athletes and even non-athletes that they have sign cards or stickers. And every time they get on it, they should have a red dot next to guys who still have outstanding stickers/cards to return. I mean, these people are being paid for these autos. That would be like me spending thousands of dollars on ebay and not ever bothering to make sure I got what I paid for. Who does that? And your other argument is like saying, oh well, I got another card or auto of the same guy I didn't get before so it's all good.

And embarrassing? Hell yes. It's beyond embarrassing. Sportscards are still a multimillion dollar business are they not? I could care less what the media would make collectors out to be. It's a big business now and it should be taken seriously. Most of the people who think it's dorky are ignorant anyways. They have no idea about the hobby at all. Not to mention most of their money is spent on purses, shoes, at the bar, on drugs, etc. Take it with a grain of salt.

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Its only a beef if you make it out to be... but realistically baseball cards are fun, they're not big bucks or anything that important in relative terms.

Cards may consume some people here, but its all about realistic perspectives and expectations. Redemptions themselves tell people what to expect...

...as does understanding what the hobby is really like. As you said right here: we've seen it all before, none of this is new. It's the nature of the hobby - and the hobby is not very business-like.

A business-like hobby is like having lawyers write Mad Magazine or DC Comics - it wouldn't be as enjoyable. Frankly collectors expecting a business-like hobby are likely to get screwed.

uniquebaseballcards said:

Its only a beef if you make it out to be... but realistically baseball cards are fun, they're not big bucks or anything that important in relative terms.

Cards may consume some people here, but its all about realistic perspectives and expectations. Redemptions themselves tell people what to expect...

...as does understanding what the hobby is really like. As you said right here: we've seen it all before, none of this is new. It's the nature of the hobby - and the hobby is not very business-like.

A business-like hobby is like having lawyers write Mad Magazine or DC Comics - it wouldn't be as enjoyable. Frankly collectors expecting a business-like hobby are likely to get screwed.

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This is where you and I diverge. If you want to call baseball cards fun, I'll agree all day long. Every time. But if you want to act like it's child's play or a mere afterthought of a hobby, I will never agree. Not with the money people, including me, spend on cards whether it be a case, a box, a pack, or a single on ebay or at a shop. It's not about being consumed. It's about the fact that these jerks expect you to pay a crapload of money for a box and then not only are you not necessarily going to get anything worthwhile, they substitute redemptions in the box and all of a sudden you get screwed there. It reminds me of the drive thru scene in lethal weapon with Leo. It really does. If I see a product is enticing, I may buy a box. Now if I get lucky and hit a good redemption for a card, my gambling should be over. Yet it's not.

I don't know what you do for a living and I don't know how much you spend on cards. But for me, my realistic expectation is getting what you tell me I will get. And getting what I paid for.

To be honest, I'm not really sure if you're telling us we are taking this too seriously or if we shouldn't be paying such high prices for wax. Or maybe both. I'd tend to agree with the fact nobody should be spending too much on wax. And that's it. To tell someone they shouldn't get their hopes up because a redemption may never get made is just BS. And then to turn around and offer the same guy's auto in another current product is really twisting the knife is it not? Because the minute packs started costing what they do and boxes and cases, I think the "don't take this too seriously" crap goes out the window. I agree with you that the self perpetuating issue of ever increasing prices is a problem. But damn man, if someone hits the jackpot, give it to them.

To sum up my thoughts, we are being told to expect and because we expect, to accept this. I do expect it. Doesn't mean it doesn't irritate the hell out of me. Or that it should be let go.

My opinion of the value- Anderson Silva is the undeniable Babe Ruth of MMA. As more and more people around the world watch MMA and MMA cards in general become more accepted the value is going to spike. Add in how much of an introvert Silva is you get the feeling that once he is done fighting him signing for North American products/products in general could be slim to none.

So it may seem like pennies to some of you now but I would be very pissed if I didn't get this card as well... Silva is at the tail end of his career.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but your argument simply makes no sense, unique. Are we not spending our hard earned money just like any other product? Do you really think Topps operates like a hobby, and not a business?
From what I read from you in this thread it sounds like we are to just accept things like this as being part of the hobby. Really? REALLY? If you like Topps, fine. But you must see how they are at fault here.
Should they know which players still need to sign for past products? DAMN RIGHT!

Ty Hope said:

Should they know which players still need to sign for past products? DAMN RIGHT!

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Completely agree here. How a company could be given a pass on not keeping track of such things is beyond me. Hell, a simple spreadsheet would keep track of things like this with minimal manpower.

RiceLynnEvans75 said:

Completely agree here. How a company could be given a pass on not keeping track of such things is beyond me. Hell, a simple spreadsheet would keep track of things like this with minimal manpower.

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To the original OP. I've thought a lot about this because I was waiting for a buyback auto for Belle for over a year, while on card autos of his kept coming out lol. I was like WTF?

So here is my question...

Does Topps control what order players sign items and then send them back? Does the player understand order of operations?

Part of me feels like they flood these players with product after product and eventually they probably just sign whatever is in front of them, send back to Topps, etc. and have no idea they've not signed the 2011 cards and just signed the 2013 product, etc.

This isn't an excuse for Topps but I'm sure part of this is the players just being idiots and not able to comprehend which cards to sign and in what order?

Maybe not.


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Looking for Albert Belle cards! PM me!

I was discussing this with a former topps employee on twitter last night. He couldn't understand my outrage about these issues. He thought they were totally
unfair. I told him that topps didn't care and he couldn't believe I was saying those things. I just sent him a link to this thread. It proves my point to a tee.

I actually think the problem here is not with the athlete and their commitment to sign on time, but the commitment of topps to make the card(s). There is no other
reason that a person can't sign 2011 cards with 2012 cards other than topps just hasn't made them yet. Of course they won't tell you that. The sad fact that the oldest
person topps has working for them has been there around 5 years. They not only don't care, but they have no pride for the company and hobby. This coupled with the fact that there is no police, and topps really does feel like they can get away with anything. I think a nice class action would send a message.

Kevin

Maybe if the products or sets were relatively close in time frame. But in my case, it has been 3 years. Anderson hasn't had any other on-card autos in that time frame. I also know that Topps knew about his 2010's not being fulfilled because I (and many others waiting on the same card. met a few on BO alone) have sent emails, called, sent twitters, sent facebooks, etc. for a few years now. Hell, I was told 1.5 years ago on the phone that Anderson would be signing his 2010 autos "shortly". We've all been ignored, lied to, deceived, and treated like crap. And I have had enough of it.

schmidtfan20 said:

I was discussing this with a former topps employee on twitter last night. He couldn't understand my outrage about these issues. He thought they were totally
unfair. I told him that topps didn't care and he couldn't believe I was saying those things. I just sent him a link to this thread. It proves my point to a tee.

I actually think the problem here is not with the athlete and their commitment to sign on time, but the commitment of topps to make the card(s). There is no other
reason that a person can't sign 2011 cards with 2012 cards other than topps just hasn't made them yet. Of course they won't tell you that. The sad fact that the oldest
person topps has working for them has been there around 5 years. They not only don't care, but they have no pride for the company and hobby. This coupled with the fact that there is no police, and topps really does feel like they can get away with anything. I think a nice class action would send a message.

Kevin

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You nailed it. Please update this thread if you hear more. I got them on the phone the other day and pretty much got nothing out of them. Was told that they'd check with a manager and send me an email. Guess what... nothing. They don't care. And as a result, I am done with them.

Unigue, why do you hold Ebay sellers to a higher level of professionalism than you hold Topps too???

Ebay sellers aren't "hobby" business?

This seams to be very flawed.

Not to speak on his behalf but I think he has just grown tired and does not sympathize with what the hobby has become. He sees a lot of folks worried only about money and he also sees a lot of folks feed into the royal screwing that we all seem to get from topps and other companies. And I agree with a large amount of what he says and feels. But I think at some point, topps needs to step up and be held accountable.

Ty Hope said:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but your argument simply makes no sense, unique. Are we not spending our hard earned money just like any other product? Do you really think Topps operates like a hobby, and not a business?
From what I read from you in this thread it sounds like we are to just accept things like this as being part of the hobby. Really? REALLY? If you like Topps, fine. But you must see how they are at fault here.
Should they know which players still need to sign for past products? DAMN RIGHT!

Click to expand...

Its nothing to do with Topps in particular but with all major manufacturers in general. All manufacturers have redemption issues. You keep saying Topps when you know full well it involves all manufacturers as if to get sympathy from the 'anti-exclusive license crowd'.

But that's neither here nor there. You also know how redemptions have *always* worked and that you're only entitled to what the redemptions say you're going to get - which is generally clearly stated on the back of the card. The manufacturer is doing what it said it was going to do in this particular case, but yet you expect more. THIS is what makes no sense. Do you expect the bank to, say, forget the last installment on your loan because you've already paid the previous 59 payments? A contract is a contract.

I don't mean to pick on you, but this goes back to a sense of entitlement - perhaps derived from the amount of time and money already spent in the hobby that far exceeds the amount of time and effort regular collectors expend within the hobby that manufacturers normally deal with.

I also have to wonder whether you're just making threads about this to stir up conversation on the board. There haven't been any HOF or steroid conversations lately LOL.

Ty Hope said:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but your argument simply makes no sense, unique. Are we not spending our hard earned money just like any other product? Do you really think Topps operates like a hobby, and not a business?
From what I read from you in this thread it sounds like we are to just accept things like this as being part of the hobby. Really? REALLY? If you like Topps, fine. But you must see how they are at fault here.
Should they know which players still need to sign for past products? DAMN RIGHT!

Click to expand...

Again with the Topps when all major manufacturers operate the same way. While Topps may be more hobby-like in its disposition it doesn't matter as long as they do what they say they're going to do. Asking them to do more is, well, kind of selfish, isn't it?

gmsieb said:

Unigue, why do you hold Ebay sellers to a higher level of professionalism than you hold Topps too???

Ebay sellers aren't "hobby" business?

This seams to be very flawed.

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Not at all. I expect everyone to do what they say they're going to do. Things *should* at least appear as they truly are.

Unprofessional ebay sellers can act selfishly and do whatever the heck they want to without care to their own reputation. They can operate against the norms of a professional, full-time seller does that actually has 'skin in the game'. Being unprofessional, they can operate mostly out of self-interest and without standards that support a lasting, healthy hobby for all. Given a choice between a brick and mortar store and John Doe on Elm Street, I'm choosing the store.

Contrary to what you may think, redemptions specify what the manufacturer is going to do and what you should expect - nothing more nothing less.

predatorkj said:

Not to speak on his behalf but I think he has just grown tired and does not sympathize with what the hobby has become. He sees a lot of folks worried only about money and he also sees a lot of folks feed into the royal screwing that we all seem to get from topps and other companies. And I agree with a large amount of what he says and feels. But I think at some point, topps needs to step up and be held accountable.

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Thanks, but did Topps in this case NOT do what they said they're going to do? What should they be accountable for?

A year ago both topps and panini were both in the same boat as far as their bad redemption department. Panini took the necessary steps and hired someone who understands
the hobby and now their dept is top notch. Do they still put out too many redemptions? Yes, but I just redeemed 12 of them three weeks ago and have gotten almost all of them, and not only did I get them, but I got the actual card I was supposed to get!

Topps has NO support, they don't even respond to emails anymore. If you are patient enough to stay on the phone for an hour, you will get to hear and Unnamed CS rep pass the buck and promise to get back to you.

You can't say that this is a problem with all companies. Panini has turned around their redemption department big time. UD has vowed to eliminate them all together. Topps......has done nothing.

Kevin

Question when it comes to the "small print" on the redemption or website or wherever else legal language is hidden...

Why do I have to buy their product, which guarantees me either an auto or memorabilia card... to end up with a redemption? So does the small print have language around best practices for how to sell the redemption if you don't want to play their game of trying to redeem what they sent you?

It's not being entitled but I feel like they take advantage of the consumer who is purchasing their product, to get nothing but an IOU in their pack.


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Also, why not have odds of hitting a redemption? Or tell people upon release which cards are redemptions? Why keep it a mystery?


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Looking for Albert Belle cards! PM me!

MansGame said:

Also, why not have odds of hitting a redemption? Or tell people upon release which cards are redemptions? Why keep it a mystery?


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Looking for Albert Belle cards! PM me!

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The problem is there are no police. There is no deterrent for topps not to do whatever they want. Closing your wallet or legal action seem to be the only options for those
who want action.

I have a bad feeling I'm about to take it in the ass on this prospect challenge thing too. I had won a blue eave pack and it has magically transformed into one single card now. I really hope they don't screw up my 20 card coin set from the chase promo,

@unique, no they didn't and haven't been doing what they say they will. It's like playing the lottery and winning just to find out what you won may be different than what was originally advertised or you may not get anything at all. I don't see how they are living up to this. Now, it can be argued that they reserve the right to offer an alternate card. Ok, fine, take they argument away. Now we are back to the original problem of them including stuff on the sell sheet that never gets made due to whatever reason.

And like I've posted before, with these new bastardized cards they are sending out as replacements(the ones from no particular product), whereas before they at least had to have a card from a product to give you, one they made to send out for actual redemptions or replacements, now they can literally run off a slew of these and intentionally decide not to create cards whether they get the stickers or autos back or not. Is they all we will get now? Made up cards?

And yes I agree panini isn't a model of greatness. Should that take away from what we have said about topps? Does it lighten the blow or irritation?

Bottom line is that it is extremely frustrating that the company responsible for decades of fond memories, a genuine institution of Americana, for so many of us has been plagued with lousy, sometimes nonexistent, customer service for too long. The answer isn't as simple as any of us want it to be. Gone are the days of sending in your wrappers and getting your glossy all-star set without issue.