Wow... explain THIS Topps!

[poppudaimadochi]

Doesn't Topps claim to have a rep present for all signings?

Nope; it's either signed in front of a rep, or shipped to the athlete who has to ship it back certifying that he/she is the one who signed. I had to fill a form when I signed mine, too.

 

[George_Calfas]

Didn't think so...

So basically there is nothing that can be done about this.

Get a lawyer.

 

[Leaf]

Why is everyone shocked about this?

Once again, this proves that Topps or any card companies DO NOT and WILL NEVER care about their customers!

This is ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Say what you will about any one company, but I dont think its fair to group customer service driven companies in with those who deserve the criticism.
BG

 

[Leaf]

Agree 100%. If you don't have it in hand, don't include it in the product, period. People are getting screwed left and right and STILL stick with that f'd up company (panini and UD are no better...).

At least Leaf is fast with redemptions. Like them or hate them, their CS is the best in the business as far as listening and solving the problem.

Thank you.

 

[cardboardtracker]

I have quite a few 2011 Bowman Platinum Matt Harvey auto redemptions submitted that in july will be going on 2 years. The biggest issue for me(other than the 2+ year wait) is the crapshoot replacement they offer after . Using Beckett BV to justify what your replacement value is absurd. Especially when the player your redeeming is a prospect who hasn't hit his ceiling.

 

[joey12508]

This is a never ending story on so many threads here.http://www.freedomcardboard.com/forum/manufacturers/121522-hey-topps-you-out-there.html

 

[Krom]

This is a never ending story

Now is BG the Nothing or is he Atreyu?

 

[Sly]

Agree 100%. If you don't have it in hand, don't include it in the product, period. People are getting screwed left and right and STILL stick with that f'd up company (panini and UD are no better...).

At least Leaf is fast with redemptions. Like them or hate them, their CS is the best in the business as far as listening and solving the problem.

So you're okay if Topps releases a preliminary checklist for a product that includes Griffey, Mays and Aaron autos in the product, only to remove those at release because they couldn't obtain the autos in time? Many people pre-buy based off those preliminary checklists, and then would go absolutely ballistic if certain players were no longer included in the product.

You can praise Leaf all you want, but until they get a sporting license (which I believe BG has said he won't because it's not worth the cost), they will not be a major player in the market competing with Topps, UD and Panini. Yes, people like their products, but there are many people who don't like the products (no logos, repackaging other companies cards, high price point on most products, limited releases, lack of actual card/collectible sets).

At the end of the day, the only way a difference can be made in the hobby is by collectors not purchasing products from a company (and that includes buying on ebay, because that still encourages others to purchase and break the product). If someone wants to front the cash for a class-action lawsuit, sure that may make a difference, but good luck finding anyone who's willing to do that.

 

[RStadlerASU22]

So you're okay if Topps releases a preliminary checklist for a product that includes Griffey, Mays and Aaron autos in the product, only to remove those at release because they couldn't obtain the autos in time? Many people pre-buy based off those preliminary checklists, and then would go absolutely ballistic if certain players were no longer included in the product.

You can praise Leaf all you want, but until they get a sporting license (which I believe BG has said he won't because it's not worth the cost), they will not be a major player in the market competing with Topps, UD and Panini. Yes, people like their products, but there are many people who don't like the products (no logos, repackaging other companies cards, high price point on most products, limited releases, lack of actual card/collectible sets).

At the end of the day, the only way a difference can be made in the hobby is by collectors not purchasing products from a company (and that includes buying on ebay, because that still encourages others to purchase and break the product). If someone wants to front the cash for a class-action lawsuit, sure that may make a difference, but good luck finding anyone who's willing to do that.

I think what some of us are saying is don't put them on the CL to Presell it. CL what you have in the presell and since most are sticker autos you should know what qty you can produce in upcoming products. If you obtain more before the release you can add to the CL and help increase orders or something similar to that. If they are producing a product and waiting on a ton of players still, then they shouldn't have gone with a product release date and info at that point anyway. If its a small percentage they are waiting on they can sell the promote the product with what they have in hand. But until its a go and in the companies hand the "perfect world" says don't sell the we might obtain, sell the we have thought.

Ryan

 

[Sly]

I think what some of us are saying is don't put them on the CL to Presell it. CL what you have in the presell and since most are sticker autos you should know what qty you can produce in upcoming products. If you obtain more before the release you can add to the CL and help increase orders or something similar to that. If they are producing a product and waiting on a ton of players still, then they shouldn't have gone with a product release date and info at that point anyway. If its a small percentage they are waiting on they can sell the promote the product with what they have in hand. But until its a go and in the companies hand the "perfect world" says don't sell the we might obtain, sell the we have thought.

Ryan

And that's fair for sticker products. What about on-card products? It'd be impossible to release ANY type of preliminary checklist because you don't know what you'll get back. As for release dates if you don't have enough autos, well, that's another thing that collectors complain about, pushing of release dates. I'm not saying they can't do a better job and that there aren't ways to fix it (hell, I'm sure I could turn Topps around in 2 minutes), but my main point was that until collectors stop buying (boxes/cases or via ebay), it's not going to change. And I think the major lesson is ... don't buy redemptions (and sell any you pull right away)!! Wait til the cards are live and buy them at that point, then if the card never gets released, you're not out anything.

 

[predatorkj]

This is ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE. Say what you will about any one company, but I dont think its fair to group customer service driven companies in with those who deserve the criticism.
BG

I don't think he meant leaf. Or sage or press pass. Like I said before Brian, I like your products. And with press pass and sage, at least you get what you pay for. But with topps and panini and UD, you don't. But we aren't their customers. Their customers are the people who order multiple cases of product and guys who bust multiple cases of product. You really think they care about the people collecting this stuff? They have to only to a small degree. Once the product has been purchased and is out the door, they made their money. This is why I like Leaf. They have to deliver. Brian, you give us a decent product or something unique. Or at the very least you have to deliver what you say you will. Because if you don't, you'll sink. Just like if I go to work tomorrow and I don't do my job, I'll get fired. That's how the world works. And that's how it should work. So I see you as somebody trying to do what they say they will. And I relate to that. Topps and Panini thinks a license and a large collector base exempts them from that and that will only be true for so long.

As for Sly's point, I don't give a damn about preliminary checklists and anyone who buys just by looking at them is being foolish. You know that there is a very good chance some of those cards won't be made. If you do buy based on that list, you'd have to do so with that thought in mind, that a lot of stuff might not really be made. Topps pulls this crap where they want preorders in and it allows them to change stuff on the fly and you can't back out. Now how many other businesses operate that way? Who would stand for it or honor the deal. There is nothing wrong with not honoring that deal because it's not the deal you made to begin with. But topps has it set up where you have to commit before they do.

So, as I've said before, what's worse: a pre checklist with a bunch of false hope, or just being upfront and not including fantasies into a set that will never come true? Twelve of one and half a dozen of another...

 

[RStadlerASU22]

And that's fair for sticker products. What about on-card products? It'd be impossible to release ANY type of preliminary checklist because you don't know what you'll get back. As for release dates if you don't have enough autos, well, that's another thing that collectors complain about, pushing of release dates. I'm not saying they can't do a better job and that there aren't ways to fix it (hell, I'm sure I could turn Topps around in 2 minutes), but my main point was that until collectors stop buying (boxes/cases or via ebay), it's not going to change. And I think the major lesson is ... don't buy redemptions (and sell any you pull right away)!! Wait til the cards are live and buy them at that point, then if the card never gets released, you're not out anything.

I agree about buying / selling redemptions. Sell if you have them, don't buy until its live. Regarding on card autos, if I were running the business I start with....

Plan for set, say a 8 month window

Work on completing preliminary CL for Autos / GU etc

Work on creating the cards they will sign etc

Company says we want 2-3 months of promotion ect, they can release a general release date whenever , like Fall 2013, but then set official release day when presells go out and product is promoted and stick w it

Knowing date they want to start marketing, company has deadlines set, contracts etc, that they need all items back to them

At that time of the deadline they can put out their Presell, CL, release date etc selling the product as is

If any sprinkle in , then they can market as a bonus before product is released

But they shouldn't be waiting on that many by then and their contract is no good w the player, and they can get "losses" from the player if the player doesn't honor contract....

But I guess in my mind it isn't that hard if you are creating deadlines and contracts, it should flow better than it does at times

Ryan

 

[predatorkj]

But Ryan, they aren't in the business of sprinkling in extras. I get that in your scenario, they wouldn't really be extras. They'd be actual items that were originally planned but not promoted due to possible failure of inclusion. But what topps does is makes up stuff for a checklist, and then, whether the cards can be produced or not, they release the checklist to promote the product. And then they expect people to spend thousands of dollars pre ordering this product whether or not the checklist fluctuates. This is beyond stupid and I really think topps needs a reality check.

 

[George_Calfas]

Several problems with autograph exists, from my POV.

1. Athletes do limited signings. This affects the On-Card auto products. Companies run out of stickers between signings.

2. Too many products, this coupled with production times will conflict with athletes that do limited signings.

 

[RStadlerASU22]

But Ryan, they aren't in the business of sprinkling in extras. I get that in your scenario, they wouldn't really be extras. They'd be actual items that were originally planned but not promoted due to possible failure of inclusion. But what topps does is makes up stuff for a checklist, and then, whether the cards can be produced or not, they release the checklist to promote the product. And then they expect people to spend thousands of dollars pre ordering this product whether or not the checklist fluctuates. This is beyond stupid and I really think topps needs a reality check.

I wasn't staring in sprinkling in extras for free, but the could use those extras as a marketing tool which would turn more product, thus their not doing it for free. And if they got those on card autos back after the product is released, they then could use those in any one of their other future products as additional chase card to help market those. It wouldn't be out of the kindness of their heart but as marketing to drive sales


Ryan

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

This thread is completely useless - - - read the terms of the redemption on the BACK in order to see exactly what the redemption holder is entitled to.

The redemption holder agrees to abide by the terms of the redemption agreement when the redemption holder turns the redemption in.

I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for anyone who thinks they should get more than what they agree to when they submit the redemption.

 

[MansGame]

This thread is completely useless - - - read the terms of the redemption on the BACK in order to see exactly what the redemption holder is entitled to.

The redemption holder agrees to abide by the terms of the redemption agreement when the redemption holder turns the redemption in.

I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for anyone who thinks they should get more than what they agree to when they submit the redemption.

Very interesting.


---
Looking for Albert Belle cards! PM me!

 

[Waxov]

This thread is completely useless - - - read the terms of the redemption on the BACK in order to see exactly what the redemption holder is entitled to.

The redemption holder agrees to abide by the terms of the redemption agreement when the redemption holder turns the redemption in.

I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for anyone who thinks they should get more than what they agree to when they submit the redemption.

Is that message anywhere else besides the back of the redemption? Is it in fine print on the back of the box? .. because if you see "1 auto per" on the box and then open the box and pull a redemption you're already committed to following the poor terms.

...maybe I am missing something here

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

Why not just put "PENDING" next to the name of a player on the preliminary checklist who has yet to send back the cards at the time the preliminary list is sent out? I can't imagine that would be too difficult for them to do. At least that way people will have an idea of whose cards may not actually be in there. Either that, or just don't put the name on the list at all and if they happen to come in, then just pack them in anyway and/or update people via their website/email/twitter/etc.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

Is that message anywhere else besides the back of the redemption? Is it in fine print on the back of the box? .. because if you see "1 auto per" on the box and then open the box and pull a redemption you're already committed to following the poor terms.

...maybe I am missing something here

Generally redemptions have language that says a suitable replacement will be sent, yada yada yada... which will usually be another auto.

Interestingly this is an area - the legalese - where manufacturers are very business-like and professional! Its just that redemption holders normally don't get it and don't understand what a redemption really is.