2012 Leaf Metal Draft Baseball + Rose + Pujols!!

[DeliciousBacon]

We had 40+ emails with regard to hot boxes in football.. 80%+ were upset they were not marked in Valiant..

It clearly benefits the case buyer/buster.. It seems most who oppose it are smaller box buyers..

Leaf has to do those things that allow our distributors and dealers the best chance of doing well with our products, without harming the end user..

As always, if feedback shifts negatively to this method, we will reassess for sure..

If it helps, hot boxes are not easy in this product. They will be a tough pull.. They will not "dilute" the rest of the boxes,.. We are not giving them an exclusive color like in our football releases..

BG

I would suspect the people who were upset about the lack of hot boxes in Valiant FB were distributors upset that they didn't have an extra way to profit at the expense of the end users. Marking the boxes makes it easy for dealers to pull that box out, sell it for a hefty markup, and ensure that the average buyer has no shot at picking it. I understand the desire to hook up the people who physically pay you for the product, but judging by past history, distributors don't need any extra incentive to buy your products (everything seems to be a quick sell-out). On the other hand, the guy buying from the distributor hears about the possibility of a hot box, and unless he's buying from an unusually honest dealer, has zero chance of getting something that is one of the top selling points of the product.

This would be similar to Topps labeling every box that had a Harper auto, or every BC box with a Superfractor.

 

[Topnotchsy]

I would suspect the people who were upset about the lack of hot boxes in Valiant FB were distributors upset that they didn't have an extra way to profit at the expense of the end users. Marking the boxes makes it easy for dealers to pull that box out, sell it for a hefty markup, and ensure that the average buyer has no shot at picking it. I understand the desire to hook up the people who physically pay you for the product, but judging by past history, distributors don't need any extra incentive to buy your products (everything seems to be a quick sell-out). On the other hand, the guy buying from the distributor hears about the possibility of a hot box, and unless he's buying from an unusually honest dealer, has zero chance of getting something that is one of the top selling points of the product.

This would be similar to Topps labeling every box that had a Harper auto, or every BC box with a Superfractor.

I agree with the premise here. Dealers are happy to sell a product that flies off the shelves. It brings people into the stores, and they profit on the sales. They may be the most vocal people in the market, but IMO they certainly would not hold back from buying a hot product without having the first crack at hot boxes. When they are not marked, they provide an additional reason for collectors to buy, which benefits the store as well as the end consumer, the "true" customer. Marking them means only the dealers "win."

 

[Lancemountain]

whoops

1. Your cards here look great. I've liked all of your cards, loved building the Rose base set.
2. These hot boxes are total garbage. You are appeasing the few at the expense of the many and that will catch up to you. Kinda surprised this is happening actually

 

[A_Pharis]

My thing is... why mark the hot box and sell it for more on its own when you could leave the 1/case hot box UNmarked and possibly make a little more on EACH box for the possibility of a hot box?

 

[jbhofmann]

My thing is... why mark the hot box and sell it for more on its own when you could leave the 1/case hot box UNmarked and possibly make a little more on EACH box for the possibility of a hot box?

I heard Bowman Draft Jumbos will have the 3 auto packs labeled so shop owners can sell them as hot packs.

 

[A_Pharis]

I heard Bowman Draft Jumbos will have the 3 auto packs labeled so shop owners can sell them as hot packs.

Would take the work out of searching the packs. lol

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

This is the whole "damn if you do, damned if you don't" type of situation. Some like it, some don't.



Sent from a handheld, intergalactic communicator.

 

[phillyfan0417]

This is the whole "damn if you do, damned if you don't" type of situation. Some like it, some don't.



Sent from a handheld, intergalactic communicator.

Well, those who benefit, big busters and distributors like it while the smaller buyer, the one who buys alot of the product dont like.

I'm not really sure why it would be difficult to understand that would be an issue. I think the only different between BG and the bigger companies is he's ok admitting he stacks the deck in favor of the big guys...

Is it really hard to mark some while actually leaving some unmarked so the smaller buyer gets a shot?

 

[nyc3]

Can someone explain how marking a box makes it worth more than say not marking a box and having one per case randomly?

I am not sure I follow this logic that more boxes will sell because the hot boxes where removed and sold seperatly? I know for a fact I wouldnt touch boxes where I have no shot at a hot box. How the hell does that add value to anything but one box in a case?

 

[MisterT]

Brian - FWIW, you can add me to "does not like marked boxes" list...as someone who buys a few boxes, this method shuts to door on any chance of me getting a hot box. Clearly not all sellers will follow Andrew's model. I can see the big breakers liking it...and selling the boxes separately on eBay or using them as special rewards. But it clearly is a negative for me.

I guess you need to consider who your market is and who you are trying to please. If you are more concerned with the big breakers and don't mind upsetting the average ones, great. If you are concerned that this will upset average buyers - and even drive down the price we are willing to pay as we no longer have a shot at a hot box - then you should reconsider.

Given that all the boxes are pure hit boxes I have not decided if this will change my behavior or not. All I can say for now is that I don't like it.

It is your company and your choice. That is just my $.02.

T

 

[cmnkb8]

Can someone explain how marking a box makes it worth more than say not marking a box and having one per case randomly?

I am not sure I follow this logic that more boxes will sell because the hot boxes where removed and sold seperatly? I know for a fact I wouldnt touch boxes where I have no shot at a hot box. How the hell does that add value to anything but one box in a case?

Simple, it adds value to dealers that sell by the box because they can sell the marked hot boxes for more. It doesn't add value to the end consumer since they'll pay more for a hot box to get more hits (unless you buy a sealed case). Though I don't see why one shouldn't buy non-hot boxes at all. It's not like only the hot boxes can have big hits.

 

[All In Cards]

Can someone explain how marking a box makes it worth more than say not marking a box and having one per case randomly?

I am not sure I follow this logic that more boxes will sell because the hot boxes where removed and sold seperatly? I know for a fact I wouldnt touch boxes where I have no shot at a hot box. How the hell does that add value to anything but one box in a case?

That 1 marked box will sell for more then an unmarked box leaving the rest to sit and not sell. If all unmarked, loose/opened cases would have a better chance of selling.

Here is an example
'12 Metal FB - $59.90 (BO)
'12 Metal FB Hot Box - $109 (atl)

 

[phillyfan0417]

That 1 marked box will sell for more then an unmarked box leaving the rest to sit and not sell. If all unmarked, loose/opened cases would have a better chance of selling.

Here is an example
'12 Metal FB - $59.90 (BO)
'12 Metal FB Hot Box - $109 (atl)

So then my idea is awesome, mark some and dont mark some. now they will all sell.

 

[nyc3]

That 1 marked box will sell for more then an unmarked box leaving the rest to sit and not sell. If all unmarked, loose/opened cases would have a better chance of selling.

Here is an example
'12 Metal FB - $59.90 (BO)
'12 Metal FB Hot Box - $109 (atl)

Thats what I figured. I know if I think I have a chance at a hotbox I would pick up 1 or 2 at my local shop. by why the hell would I now if he has it set aside for twice the money? Good to see its getting to be less and less about the collector.

 

[D-Lite]

Card collecting is gambling in every way possible. Buying prospects, buying boxes, buying cases, etc, all come with risk of loss of investment. Anything that artificially changes the risk percentage for part of the buying population (distributors/dealers) and not others (end user) is effectively insider trading. Sure, it'd be great to get the hot box knowingly, but like others have said, isn't it part of the (gambling) experience to be pleasantly surprised with the hot box? I know there are arguments both ways on this, but as an end user, it sours me on the product. I won't be buying any BDP Jumbo because of the shenanigans there, but at least there it's a different product from the hobby box (which the jumbos and the 6:1 ratio are killing). With this Leaf product there are already enough people on the fence and I think even the slightest negative publicity such as this hot box thing will just drive people away and drive the demand, and subsequently the value, down, further hurting the end user.

 

[Leaf]

Why not, you have already sold out, so its not improving your sales. I love a nice surprise when opening a box. EEE hot boxes are great and they arent marked. Hitting 10 autos is a great surprise.

My feeling is that it hurts the collector and only helps the box/case sellers.


Maybe I am stupid but when I sell the boxes from a case that has a marked hot box, I turn them all upside down and mix them up. This way I dont know who is getting the hot box. I feel its only fair to do that.

I like the way you handle this when boxing it out. As someone who bought Valaint direct to resell, were the hot boxes even remotely a factor?? No.... Metal..... Yes!
Bases of Metal dried up fast and hot boxes were part of the reason... If that helps out accounts sell out (this applies more to traditional acoXXXXs, rather than group breakers), we have to listen... BG

 

[Leaf]

Not to be difficult because they're great looking cards, but how do Pujols and Rose Autos fit into a Draft product? I'm sure it adds value, but those two players have absolutely nothing to do with a product like this. Is there not another Leaf product released during the year that would make more sense for the inclusion of these cards?

I hear you.... As started with our addition of Ichiro last year, we know that value is critical for collectors. These names will add value and we think they are a fun addition to a checklist like this.
IF set collectors were as prominent as in years past with autograph sets like this, we might rethink this, however most buyers appear to be player driven (not set driven),..

I think the desire for value/ROI easily outweighs the desire to see a purely themed prospect set to build. Why does Topps need to add veterans to Bowman draft boxes (dont these guys have enough 2012 cards? LOL)?

BG

 

[Leaf]

I would suspect the people who were upset about the lack of hot boxes in Valiant FB were distributors upset that they didn't have an extra way to profit at the expense of the end users. Marking the boxes makes it easy for dealers to pull that box out, sell it for a hefty markup, and ensure that the average buyer has no shot at picking it. I understand the desire to hook up the people who physically pay you for the product, but judging by past history, distributors don't need any extra incentive to buy your products (everything seems to be a quick sell-out). On the other hand, the guy buying from the distributor hears about the possibility of a hot box, and unless he's buying from an unusually honest dealer, has zero chance of getting something that is one of the top selling points of the product.

This would be similar to Topps labeling every box that had a Harper auto, or every BC box with a Superfractor.

Not true.... the dealers reported more demand for sealed cases on Metal due to marked Hot Boxes....It wasnt that they made extra $ (even though they might have), cases evaporated quickly!
Hot boxes will be very rare... Trust me, it will not affect the content of standard boxes...
BG

p.s.- numerous companies have successfully inserted hot boxes (marked) in products in the past...
we are making under 400 cases!... This quantity is so small that I believe case quantitiy breakers will constitute a majority of the production... This is a benefit to case breakers, dealers and collectors who like the idea of paying more money to just buy and open a hot box ...

 

[Leaf]

Well, those who benefit, big busters and distributors like it while the smaller buyer, the one who buys alot of the product dont like.

I'm not really sure why it would be difficult to understand that would be an issue. I think the only different between BG and the bigger companies is he's ok admitting he stacks the deck in favor of the big guys...

Is it really hard to mark some while actually leaving some unmarked so the smaller buyer gets a shot?

Now we are talking!!!!
Rather than look at the half glass empty, let's figure out how to fill it up!!!!!!!
I am great with that.... some hot boxes marked and some hot boxes unmarked!!!!!!!!
Nice phillyfan!
BG

 

[Leaf]

That 1 marked box will sell for more then an unmarked box leaving the rest to sit and not sell. If all unmarked, loose/opened cases would have a better chance of selling.

Here is an example
'12 Metal FB - $59.90 (BO)
'12 Metal FB Hot Box - $109 (atl)

being fair, the regular boxes are WELL over factory cost... obviosuly, not damaging regular boxes...BG
p.s.- In that product, ONLY PURPLES were in hot boxes... NO SUPERS,REDS,ETC...