AL Gold Glove awards just announced

[mlbsalltimegreats]

I am Glad Tori Hunter Won it and yes he is one of the best at his position!

 

[dooly]

Tex scooping up arod and jeters throws helped those guys tremendously. For all the jeter haters out there his defense this year was consistently good. I cant recall him making any bad plays. Ripken won some gold gloves too and his range was just as limited. There was not a guy in the AL who played much better.

Sometimes players like Jeter, who have poor range, win Gold Gloves precisely because they have poor range.
Since they can't get to balls as well, they end up making great plays because they have to dive to get to balls.
Same with outfielders. Those who are not fast have to dive more, making it look like they are great fielders.
Sure, they make great plays. But if they had more range, they wouldn't have had to dive.
Quite a paradox, isn't it?

Your logic is very flawed I'm afraid. Yes, a ball that a fielder with good range would be caught more easily than a feilder with poorer range. But saying a fielder with good range wouldn't have to dive as much is just ridiculous! A fielder with good range would be prone to diving just as much as one with poorer range. Using how much someone dives for a ball is just plain irrelevant. Some players are more willing to dive than others. This demonstrates their heart, not their actual ability.

I will say though that Jeter never would have had this Gold Glove without Teixeira at first base. Throwing over to Giambi was always an adventure but you can close your eyes and throw the ball to first base and Teixeira will come up with it.

Actually Teix was a pretty poor fielder this year with a UZR/150 of -4.1 . Morales should have taken the award. Jeter was pretty good this year but still should have gone to someone like andrus who was much better.

 

[vwnut13]

Actually Teix was a pretty poor fielder this year with a UZR/150 of -4.1 . Morales should have taken the award. Jeter was pretty good this year but still should have gone to someone like andrus who was much better.

Yeah, I don't quite believe that he was a bad fielder.

He saved numerous errors, made great plays on the field, but I don't remember him giving away any runs.

Hell, in the postseason alone he must have saved 5+ runs.

 

[ctmike]

Tex scooping up arod and jeters throws helped those guys tremendously. For all the jeter haters out there his defense this year was consistently good. I cant recall him making any bad plays. Ripken won some gold gloves too and his range was just as limited. There was not a guy in the AL who played much better.

Sometimes players like Jeter, who have poor range, win Gold Gloves precisely because they have poor range.
Since they can't get to balls as well, they end up making great plays because they have to dive to get to balls.
Same with outfielders. Those who are not fast have to dive more, making it look like they are great fielders.
Sure, they make great plays. But if they had more range, they wouldn't have had to dive.
Quite a paradox, isn't it?

Your logic is very flawed I'm afraid. Yes, a ball that a fielder with good range would be caught more easily than a feilder with poorer range. But saying a fielder with good range wouldn't have to dive as much is just ridiculous! A fielder with good range would be prone to diving just as much as one with poorer range. Using how much someone dives for a ball is just plain irrelevant. Some players are more willing to dive than others. This demonstrates their heart, not their actual ability.

I will say though that Jeter never would have had this Gold Glove without Teixeira at first base. Throwing over to Giambi was always an adventure but you can close your eyes and throw the ball to first base and Teixeira will come up with it.

Actually Teix was a pretty poor fielder this year with a UZR/150 of -4.1 . Morales should have taken the award. Jeter was pretty good this year but still should have gone to someone like andrus who was much better.

I don't know a UZR from an APB but didn't he only make 4 errors in the field all year? I know he saved dozens of throwing errors and made numerous diving stops at first base. What is this "UZR" a representation of, because it isn't what I saw all year watching him play.

From the yahoo article found here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

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This season, Jeter made a career-low eight errors and matched his personal best with a .986 fielding percentage, both ranking at the top of the AL charts. He anchored an outstanding Yankees infield as New York set a major league record by going 18 games without an error from May 14 to June 1.

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In his first season with the Yankees after signing a $180 million, eight-year contract, Teixeira impressed with his reliable glove as well as his powerful bat. He saved runs with diving stops, nimble stretches and tough scoops. Teammates and opponents alike pointed to his substantial effect on the club’s overall defense.

A Gold Glove winner in 2005 and ’06 with Texas, Teixeira committed just four errors this year and had a .997 fielding percentage.

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Yeah, they didn't deserve it. Just save it Yankee haters, please.

 

[FromKoufaxtoEdwin]

For those claiming that Tex is this amazing first baseman that saves more throws than anyone else in the game, look at these numbers. http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=220

He is definitely good at it, but its not like he on another level.

And really, the more overarching point is that we have to go with numbers to evaluate defense. There is no way we can say "Well, i watch so and so every day and he's great!" One person cannot possibly watch every game at the stadium, which is necessary to compare defensive players. One might argue that with TV a person can watch a great amount of games, but even with that, you are unable to witness the jump a player gets or how not see how a ball that gets through the hole would have been scooped up by a better player. Most people just watch the highlights and say "He had 4 Web Gems this month and is awesome!" Too bad that most of these "Web Gems" happen because of poor jumps and bad routes. Rarely did you see Franklin Gutierrez make the show (also because he plays on the west coast- another reason why a single person cant compare all players), but he was far and away the best defensive outfielder in the AL. We need to use the best stats available to evaluate defense, and no, errors and fielding percentage arent it. I've seen the argument that Andrus couldnt possibly have won the award over Jeter because he had many more errors. Well, think of it this way. 100 balls are hit and Andrus gets to 95 of them and makes 8 errors, making 87 total plays. Jeter gets to 85 of those balls and makes 3 errors, making 82 total plays. Jeter made fewer errors, but Andrus created more outs. Whom would you rather have? UZR is by far the best metric, and even with its deficiencies, it really is the best tool that we have.

 

[MallCopKJ]

Gold gloves are a joke. Aybar "deserved" it for shortstop, but because his games arent on ESPN or Fox as much as the Yankees guys like him just dont win.

 

[andyduke86]

LOL at whoever uses errors and fielding percentage to evaluate fielding. I'm not sure what is worse for evaluating performance, those irrelevant defensive stats or won-loss record for pitchers.

 

[ctmike]

For those claiming that Tex is this amazing first baseman that saves more throws than anyone else in the game, look at these numbers. http://actasports.com/sow.php?id=220

He is definitely good at it, but its not like he on another level.

And really, the more overarching point is that we have to go with numbers to evaluate defense. There is no way we can say "Well, i watch so and so every day and he's great!" One person cannot possibly watch every game at the stadium, which is necessary to compare defensive players. One might argue that with TV a person can watch a great amount of games, but even with that, you are unable to witness the jump a player gets or how not see how a ball that gets through the hole would have been scooped up by a better player. Most people just watch the highlights and say "He had 4 Web Gems this month and is awesome!" Too bad that most of these "Web Gems" happen because of poor jumps and bad routes. Rarely did you see Franklin Gutierrez make the show (also because he plays on the west coast- another reason why a single person cant compare all players), but he was far and away the best defensive outfielder in the AL. We need to use the best stats available to evaluate defense, and no, errors and fielding percentage arent it. I've seen the argument that Andrus couldnt possibly have won the award over Jeter because he had many more errors. Well, think of it this way. 100 balls are hit and Andrus gets to 95 of them and makes 8 errors, making 87 total plays. Jeter gets to 85 of those balls and makes 3 errors, making 82 total plays. Jeter made fewer errors, but Andrus created more outs. Whom would you rather have? UZR is by far the best metric, and even with its deficiencies, it really is the best tool that we have.

I don't think anyone said that they watched every player in every game. I personally said I watched Teixeira all year and he is a player deserving of a gold glove based on the play that I saw. Maybe you or others watched a player that deserved it too. I'm just saying he had a great year and whether you liked it or not he deserved it. There had to be a winner and losers and there will always be people that disagree. That's just the way it is.

There are alot of holes in your UZR with respect to how many balls are hit and how many plays are made. How do you assume one player would get to those balls and one wouldn't? That's ridiculously subjective. I'd rather have stats on how many plays a fielder made vs. errors any day. More errors leads to more runs for the opponent, thereby reducing a player's effectiveness.

On and on we go and still it doesn't change anything. Two Yankees won GGs and you are all going to have to accept it. Tissues are in aisle 12.

 

[andyduke86]

There are alot of holes in your UZR with respect to how many balls are hit and how many plays are made. How do you assume one player would get to those balls and one wouldn't? That's ridiculously subjective. I'd rather have stats on how many plays a fielder made vs. errors any day. More errors leads to more runs for the opponent, thereby reducing a player's effectiveness.

Great argument. I guess all those balls that get past Jeter because he can only range 1 or 2 steps either way don't matter since he didn't make a play on them. It doesn't matter if most shortstops would get to the ball or not, so long as Jeter didn't make a play on it. I guess more hits don't lead to more runs for the opponent. Some people just don't get it.

 

[ctmike]

There are alot of holes in your UZR with respect to how many balls are hit and how many plays are made. How do you assume one player would get to those balls and one wouldn't? That's ridiculously subjective. I'd rather have stats on how many plays a fielder made vs. errors any day. More errors leads to more runs for the opponent, thereby reducing a player's effectiveness.

Great argument. I guess all those balls that get past Jeter because he can only range 1 or 2 steps either way don't matter since he didn't make a play on them. It doesn't matter if most shortstops would get to the ball or not, so long as Jeter didn't make a play on it. I guess more hits don't lead to more runs for the opponent. Some people just don't get it.

So you know for a fact that any ball that Jeter didn't get to another player would have? How the hell can you argue that? Who decides what ball is "fieldable"? A human or a computer? Yeah those are perfect and have no biases either.

And I don't get it? Right.

 

[sportscardtheory]

Can't ANYONE who is not a Derek Jeter fan ever man up and admit the guy plays his heart out. Don't people ever get tired of ripping on one of the most consistent players of our generation, if not all time. The guy does everything on the field, he is very charitable, he is a likable guy and he keeps his mouth shut... yet all these buffoons want to do is cut him down. It's quite sad, really.

 

[andyduke86]

Can't ANYONE who is not a Derek Jeter fan ever man up and admit the guy plays his heart out. Don't people ever get tired of ripping on one of the most consistent players of our generation, if not all time. The guy does everything on the field, he is very charitable, he is a likable guy and he keeps his mouth shut... yet all these buffoons want to do is cut him down. It's quite sad, really.

You're right, because he is a great player he is immune from criticism despite one glaring flaw in his game.

 

[ctmike]

Can't ANYONE who is not a Derek Jeter fan ever man up and admit the guy plays his heart out. Don't people ever get tired of ripping on one of the most consistent players of our generation, if not all time. The guy does everything on the field, he is very charitable, he is a likable guy and he keeps his mouth shut... yet all these buffoons want to do is cut him down. It's quite sad, really.

You're right, because he is a great player he is immune from criticism despite one glaring flaw in his game.

Just wait until any of the folks that didn't win this year are Derek's age, we'll see how well they are playing SS. And before you post your next sarcastic reply I don't think that because of his age, status, or the team he plays for, he should get special consideration for ANY awards. He played very well this year and had a great 1B on his side to save him some errors. The votes are in and the award has been presented. Maybe next year your guy will win. ::facepalm::

 

[jcmint]

Maybe just maybe the coaches and managers who did vote see more then you have. The Yankees don't have 30 voting coaches and managers. Guys from other teams voted for Jeter over their own. No other shortstop including the guys you mentioned really stood out as the obvious choice.

Tex scooping up arod and jeters throws helped those guys tremendously. For all the jeter haters out there his defense this year was consistently good. I cant recall him making any bad plays. Ripken won some gold gloves too and his range was just as limited. There was not a guy in the AL who played much better.

LOL, not surprising coming from you. Andrus, Everett, Izturis, Bartlett, were easily better than Jeter. I'm sure there are a few more. I will give it to Jeter though, he has gotten much better defensively but he is still no better than average.

 

[MallCopKJ]

ra

Can't ANYONE who is not a Derek Jeter fan ever man up and admit the guy plays his heart out. Don't people ever get tired of ripping on one of the most consistent players of our generation, if not all time. The guy does everything on the field, he is very charitable, he is a likable guy and he keeps his mouth shut... yet all these buffoons want to do is cut him down. It's quite sad, really.

No ones a "buffoon" because an undeserving player wins an award, and someone has something to say about it. Derek Jeter is a very good hitter. He is not a very good fielder. He has won 4 gold gloves. The award is a joke. If I remember correctly, Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove a few years back and he was the DH for the entire season! Its nothing more than a lifetime achievement award, as long as players/coaches are allowed to pick the winner.

 

[aarne13]

Sometimes players like Jeter, who have poor range, win Gold Gloves precisely because they have poor range.
Since they can't get to balls as well, they end up making great plays because they have to dive to get to balls.
Same with outfielders. Those who are not fast have to dive more, making it look like they are great fielders.
Sure, they make great plays. But if they had more range, they wouldn't have had to dive.
Quite a paradox, isn't it?

Bingo. These so called great plays (dives) end up as web gems reinforcing the notion that Jeter (and other avg players) are better than they really are. Adam Jones was good but nowhere near what Gutierrez did. If these guys who vote are not going to take it seriously the league should rethink the voting process.

 

[andyduke86]

ra

Can't ANYONE who is not a Derek Jeter fan ever man up and admit the guy plays his heart out. Don't people ever get tired of ripping on one of the most consistent players of our generation, if not all time. The guy does everything on the field, he is very charitable, he is a likable guy and he keeps his mouth shut... yet all these buffoons want to do is cut him down. It's quite sad, really.

No ones a "buffoon" because an undeserving player wins an award, and someone has something to say about it. Derek Jeter is a very good hitter. He is not a very good fielder. He has won 4 gold gloves. The award is a joke. If I remember correctly, Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove a few years back and he was the DH for the entire season! Its nothing more than a lifetime achievement award, as long as players/coaches are allowed to pick the winner.

In 1999 he won despite playing 1B in only 28 games. As someone mentioned, the award has largely become a lifetime achievement award/popularity vote. Actual defensive value is mostly irrelevant. Also, the managers who vote on the awards are not scouts.

Yankee fans will never be able to accept that Jeter is a poor fielder. Anyone with even the slightest amount of knowledge about how to evaluate defense knows this. His range is terrible. He simply makes the ordinary plays look spectacular. Great hitter, poor fielder.

 

[aarne13]

There are alot of holes in your UZR with respect to how many balls are hit and how many plays are made. How do you assume one player would get to those balls and one wouldn't? That's ridiculously subjective. I'd rather have stats on how many plays a fielder made vs. errors any day. More errors leads to more runs for the opponent, thereby reducing a player's effectiveness.

Great argument. I guess all those balls that get past Jeter because he can only range 1 or 2 steps either way don't matter since he didn't make a play on them. It doesn't matter if most shortstops would get to the ball or not, so long as Jeter didn't make a play on it. I guess more hits don't lead to more runs for the opponent. Some people just don't get it.

So you know for a fact that any ball that Jeter didn't get to another player would have? How the hell can you argue that? Who decides what ball is "fieldable"? A human or a computer? Yeah those are perfect and have no biases either.

And I don't get it? Right.

They don't pull these numbers out of thin air and you can't really call these guys homers. You have guys that literally watch every single ball that is hit towards the player in question. Bill James' Fielding Bible is very good imo and fangraphs is another excellent resource on how they come up with these numbers.

http://www.fieldingbible.com/
http://fangraphs.com/

 

[ctmike]

ra

Can't ANYONE who is not a Derek Jeter fan ever man up and admit the guy plays his heart out. Don't people ever get tired of ripping on one of the most consistent players of our generation, if not all time. The guy does everything on the field, he is very charitable, he is a likable guy and he keeps his mouth shut... yet all these buffoons want to do is cut him down. It's quite sad, really.

No ones a "buffoon" because an undeserving player wins an award, and someone has something to say about it. Derek Jeter is a very good hitter. He is not a very good fielder. He has won 4 gold gloves. The award is a joke. If I remember correctly, Rafael Palmeiro won a gold glove a few years back and he was the DH for the entire season! Its nothing more than a lifetime achievement award, as long as players/coaches are allowed to pick the winner.

In 1999 he won despite playing 1B in only 28 games. As someone mentioned, the award has largely become a lifetime achievement award/popularity vote. Actual defensive value is mostly irrelevant. Also, the managers who vote on the awards are not scouts.

Yankee fans will never be able to accept that Jeter is a poor fielder. Anyone with even the slightest amount of knowledge about how to evaluate defense knows this. His range is terrible. He simply makes the ordinary plays look spectacular. Great hitter, poor fielder.

If he is such a poor fielder how come he has so many gold gloves then?

So just for the record, you're saying he is a poor fielder, correct? Might have missed it in your post.

Poor fielders don't make only 8 errors in an entire season.

I'm sure though he lets up on balls that he could probably get to because he knows that it might expose what a poor fielder he is.

Ok there has to be something else worth discussing here. Thanks for making me see the light. So he's a poor fielder, is that it?

 

[ctmike]

There are alot of holes in your UZR with respect to how many balls are hit and how many plays are made. How do you assume one player would get to those balls and one wouldn't? That's ridiculously subjective. I'd rather have stats on how many plays a fielder made vs. errors any day. More errors leads to more runs for the opponent, thereby reducing a player's effectiveness.

Great argument. I guess all those balls that get past Jeter because he can only range 1 or 2 steps either way don't matter since he didn't make a play on them. It doesn't matter if most shortstops would get to the ball or not, so long as Jeter didn't make a play on it. I guess more hits don't lead to more runs for the opponent. Some people just don't get it.

So you know for a fact that any ball that Jeter didn't get to another player would have? How the hell can you argue that? Who decides what ball is "fieldable"? A human or a computer? Yeah those are perfect and have no biases either.
And I don't get it? Right.

They don't pull these numbers out of thin air and you can't really call these guys homers. You have guys that literally watch every single ball that is hit towards the player in question. Bill James' Fielding Bible is very good imo and fangraphs is another excellent resource on how they come up with these numbers.

http://www.fieldingbible.com/
http://fangraphs.com/

I repeat:
Who decides what ball is "fieldable"? A human or a computer? Yeah those are perfect and have no biases either.