Albert Belle should be in the Hall of Fame

[matfanofold]

Joey Belle is a dick.

What does that have to do with his hall of fame status?

In this case, everything!

If somehow Mr. Belle was able to get the popularity/love that many who sit on the HOF fence use to slide in, he would already be there/in. However, his perception of being 'Dick' did not sway many voters with his teetering career.

There are many players who were jerks that are in the Hall of Fame. And we found out about Kirby Puckett didnt we. How many alcoholics are in the hall of fame and drug addicts. Many.

And I assume you think you have a point?

Look at it this way... Some have stats that are so good, nothing else really matters. Some have a balance of stats and popularity(to varying degrees) that push them over the edge. Then some, like Belle had 'good enough' stats for a guy who was liked/loved but not for a dink like he was.

Your fighting a loosing battle, and like most you are trying to calculate a players HOF worth when clearly it is/was intangables like his lack of popularity amongst voters that is keeping him out. And why? Because he was a dick.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

Here are some good facts:
Albert Belle
G Hits 2b 3b hr rbi BA Slug obp
1539 1726 389 21 381 1239 .295 .564 369

Kirby Puckett
G Hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
1783 2304 414 57 207 1085 .318 .477 360

Jim Rice
G hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
2089 2452 373 79 382 1451 298 502 352

Ralph Kiner
G hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
1472 1451 216 39 369 1015 279 548 398

Hank Greenberg
G hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
1394 1628 379 71 331 1276 313 605 412

Why in the world are Hank Greenberg and Ralph Kiner in this discussion?

You've listed Belle with two of the most argued against Hall of Famers (and two whose stats could be argued as better than Belle), plus Hank Greenberg and Ralph Kiner.

Greenberg left the MLB at the beginning of the 1941 season when he was drafted and served until the war ended in 1945. At least four of his prime years were given in service to this country, so let's take him out of the discussion. Kiner lost prime three years to WWII. And before you complain...yes, WWII service means a lot more than injury. A whole lot more.

Then we have Puckett and Rice who are on many "Shouldn't be in the HOF" lists. So you are aligning Belle in the "shouldn't be in" class. Of course, Puckett was beloved and won two rings and Jim Rice had an MVP...Belle has no rings and no MVP.

So again, we're debating that he should be in, or shouldn't?

 

[matfanofold]

200lb, I think we both know it's all but impossible to sway a young mans opinion with logic. We have all been there..

 

[notjomommasclint]

the media did tell me he chased down a middle schooler on halloween with his car... damn media! his numbers ruled for a couple of years. however he doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame... its for greatness and he fell wicked short of greatness.

How do you figure he fell short of greatness. Name me a more dominant hitter in the American league when he played. Maybe Griffey and ARod,but thats about it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

 

[nosterbor]

It is a joke that he didnt even get enough votes to stay on the Ballot, yet Bert Blyleven almost got in last year. Bert Blylevin is not a hall of famer, Albert Belle is, this is why sportswriters should not get to vote on these things.

Yr Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR GRSL RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
1989 Indians 62 218 22 49 8 4 7 1 37 12 0 55 0 2 2 4 .225 .269 .394
1990 Indians 9 23 1 4 0 0 1 0 3 1 0 6 1 0 0 1 .174 .208 .304
1991 Indians 123 461 60 130 31 2 28 0 95 25 2 99 0 5 5 24 .282 .323 .540
1992 Indians 153 585 81 152 23 1 34 1 112 52 5 128 1 8 4 18 .260 .320 .477
1993 Indians 159 594 93 172 36 3 38 0 129 76 13 96 1 14 8 18 .290 .370 .552
1994 Indians 106 412 90 147 35 2 36 1 101 58 9 71 1 4 5 5 .357 .438 .714
1995 Indians 143 546 121 173 52 1 50 2 126 73 5 80 0 4 6 24 .317 .401 .690
1996 Indians 158 602 124 187 38 3 48 2 148 99 15 87 0 7 7 20 .311 .410 .623
1997 White Sox 161 634 90 174 45 1 30 4 116 53 6 105 0 8 6 26 .274 .332 .491
1998 White Sox 163 609 113 200 48 2 49 0 152 81 10 84 0 15 1 17 .328 .399 .655
1999 Orioles 161 610 108 181 36 1 37 0 117 101 15 82 0 4 7 19 .297 .400 .541
2000 Orioles 141 559 71 157 37 1 23 2 103 52 11 68 0 7 4 17 .281 .342 .474
Career G AB R H 2B 3B HR GRSL RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
12 Years 1,539 5,853 974 1,726 389 21 381 13 1,239 683 91 961 4 78 55 193 .295 .369 .564

Well surely you would agree that if Belle deserves to be in the HOF, then Juan Gonzalez should waltz in.

Neither deserve it, nor will ever be invited to visit. Both are total tools.

Juan Gone was a *****, but to put him the same ***** level as Albert Belle is just wrong. Albert Belle makes Pol Pot look like a humanitarian.

yes he was a ***** for turning down 120 mill in 2000 from the Tigers, he would have still been under contract till last year. and they should both be wife beaters.then they could get in.

 

[uniquebaseballcards]

the media did tell me he chased down a middle schooler on halloween with his car... damn media! his numbers ruled for a couple of years. however he doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame... its for greatness and he fell wicked short of greatness.

How do you figure he fell short of greatness. Name me a more dominant hitter in the American league when he played. Maybe Griffey and ARod,but thats about it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

 

[elmalo]

Joey Belle is a dick.

What does that have to do with his hall of fame status?

In this case, everything!

If somehow Mr. Belle was able to get the popularity/love that many who sit on the HOF fence use to slide in, he would already be there/in. However, his perception of being 'Dick' did not sway many voters with his teetering career.

There are many players who were jerks that are in the Hall of Fame. And we found out about Kirby Puckett didnt we. How many alcoholics are in the hall of fame and drug addicts. Many.

Jerks to the sports writers/reporters aka the people who vote them in

Which is exactly why they shouldnt be voting for the hall of fame. Who the hell are they to determine that.

 

[elmalo]

Joey Belle is a dick.

What does that have to do with his hall of fame status?

In this case, everything!

If somehow Mr. Belle was able to get the popularity/love that many who sit on the HOF fence use to slide in, he would already be there/in. However, his perception of being 'Dick' did not sway many voters with his teetering career.

There are many players who were jerks that are in the Hall of Fame. And we found out about Kirby Puckett didnt we. How many alcoholics are in the hall of fame and drug addicts. Many.

And I assume you think you have a point?

Look at it this way... Some have stats that are so good, nothing else really matters. Some have a balance of stats and popularity(to varying degrees) that push them over the edge. Then some, like Belle had 'good enough' stats for a guy who was liked/loved but not for a dink like he was.

Your fighting a loosing battle, and like most you are trying to calculate a players HOF worth when clearly it is/was intangables like his lack of popularity amongst voters that is keeping him out. And why? Because he was a dick.

Bc he was a dick to sportswriters. And that shouldnt keep him out of the hall of fame.

 

[elmalo]

Here are some good facts:
Albert Belle
G Hits 2b 3b hr rbi BA Slug obp
1539 1726 389 21 381 1239 .295 .564 369

Kirby Puckett
G Hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
1783 2304 414 57 207 1085 .318 .477 360

Jim Rice
G hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
2089 2452 373 79 382 1451 298 502 352

Ralph Kiner
G hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
1472 1451 216 39 369 1015 279 548 398

Hank Greenberg
G hits 2b 3b hr rbi ba slug obp
1394 1628 379 71 331 1276 313 605 412

Why in the world are Hank Greenberg and Ralph Kiner in this discussion?

You've listed Belle with two of the most argued against Hall of Famers (and two whose stats could be argued as better than Belle), plus Hank Greenberg and Ralph Kiner.

Greenberg left the MLB at the beginning of the 1941 season when he was drafted and served until the war ended in 1945. At least four of his prime years were given in service to this country, so let's take him out of the discussion. Kiner lost prime three years to WWII. And before you complain...yes, WWII service means a lot more than injury. A whole lot more.

Then we have Puckett and Rice who are on many "Shouldn't be in the HOF" lists. So you are aligning Belle in the "shouldn't be in" class. Of course, Puckett was beloved and won two rings and Jim Rice had an MVP...Belle has no rings and no MVP.

So again, we're debating that he should be in, or shouldn't?

And Belle should have had 1 if not two MVP's if not for the writers who vote on them and it isnt Albert Belles fault that there was a dynasty called the Yankees when he was getting the Indians to the playoffs. World war service does mean a lot, but Belle had to retire in his prime, if not he would have had 500-600 home runs. Its not like he got injured and came back. his injury was career ending and his stats suffered just as much as Greenberg/Kiner. I dont see how you can figure that Puckett and Rice have better stats. Pucketts ave was better, but Belle had way more power and Rice played 700 more games than Belle.

 

[notjomommasclint]

the media did tell me he chased down a middle schooler on halloween with his car... damn media! his numbers ruled for a couple of years. however he doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame... its for greatness and he fell wicked short of greatness.

How do you figure he fell short of greatness. Name me a more dominant hitter in the American league when he played. Maybe Griffey and ARod,but thats about it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

oh i think belle was a force... he could certainly go deep! i dont think he ever reached the elite level for the length of time that is required for the hall. i also would have rather faced him than thomas, bonds, and griffey for the obp alone. gonzalez may be more of a fair comparison to belle as far as stats.

 

[Rickzcards]

Well then maybe this should be a lesson to all players who are on the bubble as far as the HOF goes. Don't be a dick to the media. He was a dick, like Bonds and won't be going to the HOF unless he buys a ticket. Maybe had he played anytime from the 40's - 70's he might have been able to make it, lots of questionable HOF'ers came from those years.

 

[elmalo]

the media did tell me he chased down a middle schooler on halloween with his car... damn media! his numbers ruled for a couple of years. however he doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame... its for greatness and he fell wicked short of greatness.

How do you figure he fell short of greatness. Name me a more dominant hitter in the American league when he played. Maybe Griffey and ARod,but thats about it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

oh i think belle was a force... he could certainly go deep! i dont think he ever reached the elite level for the length of time that is required for the hall. i also would have rather faced him than thomas, bonds, and griffey for the obp alone. gonzalez may be more of a fair comparison to belle as far as stats.

And those guys are all hall of famers, just because the writers dont like them doesnt mean they shouldnt be hall of famers. Koufax had 5 elite years and hes in so...

 

[All The Hype]

He's not a Hall of Famer. He doesn't have the numbers. Doesn't really matter if his career was cut short or not.

You're well on your way to becoming a message board HOFer though... stringing together eight uninterrupted posts in the same thread is unprecedented.

Actually he does have the numbers.

Actually he's not even close.

 

[elmalo]

Well then maybe this should be a lesson to all players who are on the bubble as far as the HOF goes. Don't be a dick to the media. He was a dick, like Bonds and won't be going to the HOF unless he buys a ticket. Maybe had he played anytime from the 40's - 70's he might have been able to make it, lots of questionable HOF'ers came from those years.

Why should it be up to the media?

 

[notjomommasclint]

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245[/url]

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

oh i think belle was a force... he could certainly go deep! i dont think he ever reached the elite level for the length of time that is required for the hall. i also would have rather faced him than thomas, bonds, and griffey for the obp alone. gonzalez may be more of a fair comparison to belle as far as stats.

And those guys are all hall of famers, just because the writers dont like them doesnt mean they shouldnt be hall of famers. Koufax had 5 elite years and hes in so...[/quote:5wr7dyds]

but you told me earlier that i couldnt find better players than belle... gonzalez is not a hall of famer nor should he be... just like albert.

 

[elmalo]

Bert Blyleven is probably gonna get in next year. Bert Blyleven is not a Hall of Fame pitcher.

 

[elmalo]

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245[/url]

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

oh i think belle was a force... he could certainly go deep! i dont think he ever reached the elite level for the length of time that is required for the hall. i also would have rather faced him than thomas, bonds, and griffey for the obp alone. gonzalez may be more of a fair comparison to belle as far as stats.

And those guys are all hall of famers, just because the writers dont like them doesnt mean they shouldnt be hall of famers. Koufax had 5 elite years and hes in so...[/quote:1ig5w5tp]

but you told me earlier that i couldnt find better players than belle... gonzalez is not a hall of famer nor should he be... just like albert.[/quote:1ig5w5tp]
Why shouldnt Gonzalez be in the Hall of fame?

 

[notjomommasclint]

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245[/url]

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

oh i think belle was a force... he could certainly go deep! i dont think he ever reached the elite level for the length of time that is required for the hall. i also would have rather faced him than thomas, bonds, and griffey for the obp alone. gonzalez may be more of a fair comparison to belle as far as stats.

And those guys are all hall of famers, just because the writers dont like them doesnt mean they shouldnt be hall of famers. Koufax had 5 elite years and hes in so...[/quote:19fsp3h0]

but you told me earlier that i couldnt find better players than belle... gonzalez is not a hall of famer nor should he be... just like albert.[/quote:19fsp3h0]
Why shouldnt Gonzalez be in the Hall of fame?[/quote:19fsp3h0]

because he was merely good...

 

[nosterbor]

the media did tell me he chased down a middle schooler on halloween with his car... damn media! his numbers ruled for a couple of years. however he doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame... its for greatness and he fell wicked short of greatness.

How do you figure he fell short of greatness. Name me a more dominant hitter in the American league when he played. Maybe Griffey and ARod,but thats about it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=123245

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=114932

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=111188

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/pla ... _id=115135

this is 4 off the top of my head who were just as feared if not more so than belle.

IMO Griffey Thomas and Belle alone were on the first-tier of players offensively, but I think players were 'scared' of Belle most.
Its truly too bad Belle was equally offensive in other ways, but there's no denying his prowess.

oh i think belle was a force... he could certainly go deep! i dont think he ever reached the elite level for the length of time that is required for the hall. i also would have rather faced him than thomas, bonds, and griffey for the obp alone. gonzalez may be more of a fair comparison to belle as far as stats.

you have to look at the games played and at bats .both those guys playing was cut short due to be injured as was Puckett
Juan was alot better than good. 2 MVP's
all time stats
slug-.560 18th
ab per hr-15.11 15th
and the most impressive stat!
RBI PER GAME AVG

1st Gerig 0.92
2nd Ruth 0.88
3rd Gonzalez 0.83

these stats are Better than Griffey, Thomas, Puckett
his OPS OF .904 is better that Griffey, Puckett. Juan also has 650 less at bats than Puckett and Juans numbers just totaly kills his except avg. none of you truly know how great he was.

 

[leatherman]

Bc he was a dick to sportswriters. And that shouldnt keep him out of the hall of fame.

Since one is elected to the Hall of Fame by the Baseball WRITER'S Association of America, being a "dick" to sportswriters would invariably keep him out of the HOF.

Belle isn't complaining about not being in the HOF. He knows exactly why he will never be enshrined:

He had a corked bat.
He threw a ball at someone.
He ran down trick-or-treaters in his car.
He cursed at Hannah Storm during the World Series.
He destroyed a clubhouse thermostat.
He was suspended a total of 10 games for his behavior.