Throw Home Runs out of it! I am not saying you have to hit home runs! But if you don't, you better hit .320 or so! Ozzie hit .260! Great fielder, crappy hitter does not make HOF! If he never did one backflip, or was rude to the fans he would not have received a single vote! I guess Vizquel should have done more backflips and kissed the fans butts! Because he is twice the player Ozzie was and he will not get in! Popularity contest.
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Andy Pettitte any chance for HOF
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pujolsjunkie said:
Well, we are not allowed to bet, otherwise i would tell you I would bet you $500 that Helton gets in. Holliday we don't know because he could get hurt or slump, but if he repeats his current stats into his late 30s, there is NO DOUBT! Walker I wouldn't bet on, but do believe he will make it.
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His backflip and being a class act count towards the Hall. It's his character and something he did for baseball - exciting/drawing in fans. He became an icon.bodiaz said:
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Wait...don't other Rockies play at Coors too? Wouldn't that mean he is better than them if he performs better in the same venue? :lol:bodiaz said:
TO put it in another perspective, 95% of ALL elgible pitchers with a HOF MONITOR above 125 is in the HOF.
Pettitte currently has a HOF monitor of 108. If he is able to continue to avg 13+ wins for 5 years, and if he gets to 300Wins, He will be sitting at a HOF monitor above 150, and will get in, and I would bet my left nut on that. Again, that's an IF, but do not count him out.
Schilling is another pitcher most doubt he will get in, and I am near positive he is a shoe-in.
For those that say you have to be great, not just good...it just depends on what you define as your definition of great. You don't need Barry Bonds numbers.
IMHO, anyone in the top 1% (meaning there are 99 out of 100 players worse than subject), and have good character, should get in...also I think character should play even a bigger part than it already does. Many people neglect this when saying if someone should be in or not, which is a huge mistake..
Pettitte currently has a HOF monitor of 108. If he is able to continue to avg 13+ wins for 5 years, and if he gets to 300Wins, He will be sitting at a HOF monitor above 150, and will get in, and I would bet my left nut on that. Again, that's an IF, but do not count him out.
Schilling is another pitcher most doubt he will get in, and I am near positive he is a shoe-in.
For those that say you have to be great, not just good...it just depends on what you define as your definition of great. You don't need Barry Bonds numbers.
IMHO, anyone in the top 1% (meaning there are 99 out of 100 players worse than subject), and have good character, should get in...also I think character should play even a bigger part than it already does. Many people neglect this when saying if someone should be in or not, which is a huge mistake..
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For those of you who think Pettitte will get in - do you think he'll be the first guy involved in a PED scandal? And do you think it will open the door for everyone else? Or do you think another PEDer will get in before him, or none of them will?
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I didn't say i think he will get in. I said IF....
and as far as PEDs go, i think those that admitted, and continued to play many years and continue to put up stats will eventually get in...that is my opinion.
I also think Pettitte is a "stand-up guy", and his character may help in determining his case.
If you want to argue the merits of Sutter, Gossage, even Rice, you'll find a lot of people on both sides of the debate. Arguing against a guy (Ozzie) that was a first ballot hall of famer who received over 91 % of possible writers votes is just silly.
As for Pettitte, the most post season win is weak at best due to the extended playoffs. His WS record isn't that amazing (4/4, with ironically a 4.00 ERA). He has been a workhorse though, and I do think that in this day and age of the 5 man rotation that 250 - 275 wins is the magical # instead of 300, I do think that he's not a HOFer yet. I can think of at least 5 other pitchers I'd rather see in the HOF before him (Blyleven, Kaat, John, Morris, Reynolds).
As for Pettitte, the most post season win is weak at best due to the extended playoffs. His WS record isn't that amazing (4/4, with ironically a 4.00 ERA). He has been a workhorse though, and I do think that in this day and age of the 5 man rotation that 250 - 275 wins is the magical # instead of 300, I do think that he's not a HOFer yet. I can think of at least 5 other pitchers I'd rather see in the HOF before him (Blyleven, Kaat, John, Morris, Reynolds).
matfanofold
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Well....
Pettitte is what, 37 or 38 years old right now? Does anyone really expect to see him pitch over 40? Or win 15+/- games for until he is 43 or so? I'm going out on a limb and say it's going to be near impossible for him. Having said that, if he can get 275(which I believe is all but impossible for him), and if the PED scandal is overlooked for him, he should get consideration.
When it's all said and done, I do not think Andy will even reach the point of consideration. And even if he did, he would not make it through the other side. Again, I'm going to step out on the limb and say with 99.999% certinty he will not make it.
Pettitte is what, 37 or 38 years old right now? Does anyone really expect to see him pitch over 40? Or win 15+/- games for until he is 43 or so? I'm going out on a limb and say it's going to be near impossible for him. Having said that, if he can get 275(which I believe is all but impossible for him), and if the PED scandal is overlooked for him, he should get consideration.
When it's all said and done, I do not think Andy will even reach the point of consideration. And even if he did, he would not make it through the other side. Again, I'm going to step out on the limb and say with 99.999% certinty he will not make it.
matfanofold
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bodiaz said:
Ah yes, that must be it! Since you 'have heard alot of people' say he should not get in, and anyone who disagrees with this must be 'brain washed', then they should revoke his status immediately!
The only joke here is your failed attempt at discrediting a hall of famer.
::facepalm::
Anyone that gets 300 will get in (even if their name is Clemens), so if that happens then yes. Otherwise, I don't think so. Granted he has the NY thing going for him, but he wasn't a dominant pitcher (like Clemens, Johnson, or Martinez) outside of his 1996 season, and while his PED issue is a bit more explainable than others, it'll still hang over his head. Had the Astros won the WS, it might be a different story (voters tend to love guys that can win a WS in both leagues).
hofautos said:
matfanofold said:
In all fairness, I don't think he will reach the plateus I suggest it will take...I just think it's too early to say, but not to count him out just yet. He seems strong as ever right now, and in good shape for 37. Clemens pitched until he was 45...what could Andy's numbers look like if he pitched to just 43?
matfanofold
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hofautos said:
In all fairness, it was the PED's that kept Clemens around long enough to compile thoes numbers and to stay viable past 40. I do not think Pettitte will make the same mistake.
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You make me laugh. Post thankedbodiaz said:
Huffamaniac
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Yaz made it in to the HOF and he was a .263 hitter on the road. If it was not for fenway he would have been an average player. Check his home vs away stats if you do not believe
helton's overall party of work should get him in
helton's overall party of work should get him in
pujolsjunkie said:
