Anybody ever seen a signed original t206?

[Therion]

That Cobb is 100% Authentic. There are another 3-5 signed Cobb examples in private collections.

With all due respect, unless you're pushing 70 years old there is no way to say that it's 100% authentic.

What does being 70 have to do with ability to authenticate?

Cobb died in 1961. The only way to say something is "100% Authentic" is if you saw it happen yourself, which I'm guessing is not the case. I guess you could be slightly younger than 70 and witnessed a Cobb signing..

I assumed most would understand without an explanation, but I'm happy to be able to explain that to you.

It was a rhetorical question. I understood your point but it is fairly invalid. Nobody alive saw Shakespeare sign but he is easily authenticated. In collecting autographs one must put some faith in outside sources.

 

[Jastermereel]

That Cobb is 100% Authentic. There are another 3-5 signed Cobb examples in private collections.

With all due respect, unless you're pushing 70 years old there is no way to say that it's 100% authentic.

What does being 70 have to do with ability to authenticate?

Cobb died in 1961. The only way to say something is "100% Authentic" is if you saw it happen yourself, which I'm guessing is not the case. I guess you could be slightly younger than 70 and witnessed a Cobb signing..

I assumed most would understand without an explanation, but I'm happy to be able to explain that to you.

It was a rhetorical question. I understood your point but it is fairly invalid. Nobody alive saw Shakespeare sign but he is easily authenticated. In collecting autographs one must put some faith in outside sources.

Sure you can't. There is no way to say with "100% Certainty" any signature that old is genuine. PSA/DNA, JSA, everybody makes errors. That's why they have all the legal jargin on their COA's.

About a year ago a Christie Mathewson signed contract was sold. It was authenticated by JSA & PSA/DNA. Just about everyone that didn't work for those companies believed it to not be Christie's signature. Who was right? We don't know because we did not see it signed.

 

[Therion]

[quote="Liberate Baltimore":2bmt3c6p]That Cobb is 100% Authentic. There are another 3-5 signed Cobb examples in private collections.

With all due respect, unless you're pushing 70 years old there is no way to say that it's 100% authentic.

What does being 70 have to do with ability to authenticate?

Cobb died in 1961. The only way to say something is "100% Authentic" is if you saw it happen yourself, which I'm guessing is not the case. I guess you could be slightly younger than 70 and witnessed a Cobb signing..

I assumed most would understand without an explanation, but I'm happy to be able to explain that to you.

It was a rhetorical question. I understood your point but it is fairly invalid. Nobody alive saw Shakespeare sign but he is easily authenticated. In collecting autographs one must put some faith in outside sources.

Sure you can't. There is no way to say with "100% Certainty" any signature that old is genuine. PSA/DNA, JSA, everybody makes errors. That's why they have all the legal jargin on their COA's.

About a year ago a Christie Mathewson signed contract was sold. It was authenticated by JSA & PSA/DNA. Just about everyone that didn't work for those companies believed it to not be Christie's signature. Who was right? We don't know because we did not see it signed.[/quote:2bmt3c6p]

When talking about authentication, PSA/DNA doesn't even belong in the conversation. They are a joke. I'm refering to true (i.e. legitimate) authenticators.

 

[scotty21690]

"Seeing enough of" doesn't exactly make you an expert (how many is 'enough?'). I have one sitting in front of me and I wouldn't claim to be an authority. I'm not saying it isn't real, but people with much more experience than I'm sure you have have made mistakes before.

Sigh.....


Post a pic/scan please..

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

I make my living in the hobby. I have seen thousands of Cobb autographs come through our auction house and many fakes, so I feel I am qualified to have a credible opinion on that one. I have view dozens of Cobb's personal letters and know his style and signature. The slant and placement all are characteristics of Cobb's autograph. More than anything, I know the story behind the obtaining of the card in question. If you care, I can tell it.

James

 

[kdailey4315]

[quote="Jastermereel":1htfv8s4][quote="Liberate Baltimore":1htfv8s4]That Cobb is 100% Authentic. There are another 3-5 signed Cobb examples in private collections.

With all due respect, unless you're pushing 70 years old there is no way to say that it's 100% authentic.

What does being 70 have to do with ability to authenticate?

Cobb died in 1961. The only way to say something is "100% Authentic" is if you saw it happen yourself, which I'm guessing is not the case. I guess you could be slightly younger than 70 and witnessed a Cobb signing..

I assumed most would understand without an explanation, but I'm happy to be able to explain that to you.

It was a rhetorical question. I understood your point but it is fairly invalid. Nobody alive saw Shakespeare sign but he is easily authenticated. In collecting autographs one must put some faith in outside sources.

Sure you can't. There is no way to say with "100% Certainty" any signature that old is genuine. PSA/DNA, JSA, everybody makes errors. That's why they have all the legal jargin on their COA's.

About a year ago a Christie Mathewson signed contract was sold. It was authenticated by JSA & PSA/DNA. Just about everyone that didn't work for those companies believed it to not be Christie's signature. Who was right? We don't know because we did not see it signed.[/quote:1htfv8s4]

When talking about authentication, PSA/DNA doesn't even belong in the conversation. They are a joke. I'm refering to true (i.e. legitimate) authenticators.[/quote:1htfv8s4]

Who are these legitimate authenticators you speak of?

 

[Jastermereel]

"Seeing enough of" doesn't exactly make you an expert (how many is 'enough?'). I have one sitting in front of me and I wouldn't claim to be an authority. I'm not saying it isn't real, but people with much more experience than I'm sure you have have made mistakes before.

Sigh.....


Post a pic/scan please..

Sigh......

Of what?

 

[Jastermereel]

I make my living in the hobby. I have seen thousands of Cobb autographs come through our auction house and many fakes, so I feel I am qualified to have a credible opinion on that one. I have view dozens of Cobb's personal letters and know his style and signature. The slant and placement all are characteristics of Cobb's autograph. More than anything, I know the story behind the obtaining of the card in question. If you care, I can tell it.

James

Congrats. That and 44 cents will buy you a stamp. I get all the auction catalogs and I reviewed the letters you're refering to at the show in Chantilly a while back. Nothing you, or that other "I've seen enough" guy have said would convince me you can authenticate any signature "100%" without seeing it signed. Nobody can. 100% means there is zero room for error.

You guys have a pretty high opinion of yourselves. Higher than that of most real authenticators. Maybe you should seek side employment.

 

[kdailey4315]

"Seeing enough of" doesn't exactly make you an expert (how many is 'enough?'). I have one sitting in front of me and I wouldn't claim to be an authority. I'm not saying it isn't real, but people with much more experience than I'm sure you have have made mistakes before.

Sigh.....


Post a pic/scan please..

Sigh......

Of what?

You said you had a Ty Cobb auto sitting right in front of you. I think he was asking for you to show a scan to prove it.

 

[Jastermereel]

"Seeing enough of" doesn't exactly make you an expert (how many is 'enough?'). I have one sitting in front of me and I wouldn't claim to be an authority. I'm not saying it isn't real, but people with much more experience than I'm sure you have have made mistakes before.

Sigh.....


Post a pic/scan please..

Sigh......

Of what?

You said you had a Ty Cobb auto sitting right in front of you. I think he was asking for you to show a scan to prove it.

Ye ask and ye shall receive.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ty-Cobb-Auto-Autogr ... 7C294%3A30

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

Do any of the authenticators at PSA/DNA or JSA have forensic handwriting analysis training. I know that answer. What they do rely upon is experience, and years of it. If you want to have such a paranoid view of the hobby, then fine. There are plenty of of people who stay away from autographs for that reason. I suppose all of your cards are fake too? You never saw them actually printing them, right?

 

[Jastermereel]

Do any of the authenticators at PSA/DNA or JSA have forensic handwriting analysis training. I know that answer. What they do rely upon is experience, and years of it. If you want to have such a paranoid view of the hobby, then fine. There are plenty of of people who stay away from autographs for that reason. I suppose all of your cards are fake too? You never saw them actually printing them, right?

I don't have a paranoid view. I love vintage autographs, but I'm not so confident that I would assume they are "100%" authentic. I assume the authenticated ones are good, but you never know for certain. I'm fully aware of many of the JSA or PSA/DNA guy's credentials, or lack thereof.

As far as my stuff goes, don't forget there have been more than a couple modern examples of athletes having someone sign their cards for them.

edit: And back on point, I'm fairly certain there is a slabbed T206 Cobb out there that's authenticity has been questioned.

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

Do any of the authenticators at PSA/DNA or JSA have forensic handwriting analysis training. I know that answer. What they do rely upon is experience, and years of it. If you want to have such a paranoid view of the hobby, then fine. There are plenty of of people who stay away from autographs for that reason. I suppose all of your cards are fake too? You never saw them actually printing them, right?

I don't have a paranoid view. I love vintage autographs, but I'm not so confident that I would assume they are "100%" authentic. I assume the authenticated ones are good, but you never know for certain. I'm fully aware of many of the JSA or PSA/DNA guy's credentials, or lack thereof.

As far as my stuff goes, don't forget there have been more than a couple modern examples of athletes having someone sign their cards for them.

edit: And back on point, I'm fairly certain there is a slabbed T206 Cobb out there that's authenticity has been questioned.

I can agree with you there. Perhaps I should have stated, it looks "very very very similar to Cobb examples, so much so, I am almost certain of it". The slabbed T206 card which is probably the most questionable is the Johnson, correct? I wish I could divulge more about JSA and PSA/DNA and their credentials, but perhaps after I leave the hobby (as a career).

 

[Jastermereel]

I know the Johnson you're talking about. I didn't know there was any issues of authenticity surrounding it, I was told that the guy who listed it on eBay seemed very eccentric.

I'm almost certain though that there's a PSA/DNA T206 signed Cobb out there that people have questioned. I guessed it was this one since I've only heard of a couple being in existence. I would think authenticating that autograph would prove slightly more difficult given that limited space and the obvious issue that Cobb had to alter his normal signature in order to fit it on the card.

edit: I know a James that works for Huggins & Scott......

 

[Liberate Baltimore]

I know the Johnson you're talking about. I didn't know there was any issues of authenticity surrounding it, I was told that the guy who listed it on eBay seemed very eccentric.

I'm almost certain though that there's a PSA/DNA T206 signed Cobb out there that people have questioned. I guessed it was this one since I've only heard of a couple being in existence. I would think authenticating that autograph would prove slightly more difficult given that limited space and the obvious issue that Cobb had to alter his normal signature in order to fit it on the card.

edit: I know a James that works for Huggins & Scott......

A lot of people know that guy

 

[Jastermereel]

He better do a hell of a write-up for my lot in their next sale.