BA TOP 10- INDIANS From print

[Exposfan]

TOP TEN
PROSPECTS
1. Francisco Lindor
2. Dillon Howard
3.Nick Hagadone
4. Chen Lee
5. Luigi Rodriguez
6. Zach Mcallister
7. Tony Wolters
8. Austin Adams
9. Scott Barnes
10. Zach Putnam

BEST
TOOLS
Best Hitter for Average Lindor
Best Power Hitter Jesus Aguilar
Best Strike Zone Discipline Jordan Henry
Fastest Baserunner Luigi Rodriguez
Best Athlete Levon Washington
Best Fastball Austin Adams
Best Curveball Trey Haley
Best Slider Chen Lee
Best Change-up Matt Packer
Best Control Mike Rayl
Best Defensive Catcher Roberto Perez
Best Defensive Infielder Lindor
Best Infield Arm Ronny Rodriguez
Best Defensive OF Tyler Holt
Best Outfield Arm Carlos Moncrief


PROJECTED 2015
LINEUP
Catcher Carlos Santana
First Base Matt Laporta
Second Base Asdrubal Cabrera
Third Base Lonnie Chisenhall
Shortstop Francisco Lindor
Left Field Michael Brantley
Center Field Grady Sizemore
Right Field Shin-Soo Choo
Designated Hitter Jason Kipnis
No. 1 Starter Ubaldo Jimenez
No. 2 Starter Justin Masterson
No. 3 Starter Carlos Carrasco
No. 4 Starter Dillon Howard
No. 5 Starter Josh Tomlin
Closer Chris Perez

 

[Jaypers]

Surprised Felix Sterling was a no-show. And I had Wolters at #2 on my own list.

 

[bigpapiMA32]

Interesting list, projected lineup not so much.

 

[SydBarrett]

Very nice. (all are currently at BGS)

 

[mwashuc06]

BA is stupid, Wolters is top 3 in that system. Hagadone, generic lefty specialist, Mcallister is a back end at best. If they think Wolters is down due to his late slump it's due to him playing the last month with an injury that would have most out for 2 to 4 weeks. BA is dumb and I disagree with some of their lists.

 

[vwnut13]

Masterson > Ubaldo

 

[chompsmcgee]

Masterson > Ubaldo

I can't tell if your drug of choice is crack or meth. Either way, clearly your judgement is impaired.

 

[jpruitt2]

Having Howard at #2 is a joke, he will never pan out. He doesn't have the work ethic and doesnt like to compete.

 

[mnava18]

the fact that they have matt laporta projected as there first baseman in 2015 isa joke in itself. pretty lame top 10

 

[vwnut13]

Masterson > Ubaldo

I can't tell if your drug of choice is crack or meth. Either way, clearly your judgement is impaired.

I'm not sure if you have ever looked at Jimenez's stats. Jimenez became an "ace" because of three great months in his career.

Take out his first three months of 2009 and he has a career 4.03 ERA. Heck, he pitched to a 4.68 ERA this year.

Jiminez is FAR from an ace. He's not even a #2.

The Rockies wanted: Jesus Montero, Ivan Nova, Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances for Jimenez. I wouldn't have given up any of them for him, and I'm glad Cashman didn't.

 

[RL24]

Masterson > Ubaldo

I can't tell if your drug of choice is crack or meth. Either way, clearly your judgement is impaired.

I won't get into my drug of choice, but... I think Masterson is the better pitcher as well. PLUS I love his style, especially his socks. I do have high hopes for both of them though, I know that they can both pitch at "ace" level...

the fact that they have matt laporta projected as there first baseman in 2015 isa joke in itself.

It made me laugh as well, but then... he could break out at any time. Stranger things have happened!

 

[chompsmcgee]

Masterson > Ubaldo

I can't tell if your drug of choice is crack or meth. Either way, clearly your judgement is impaired.

I'm not sure if you have ever looked at Jimenez's stats. Jimenez became an "ace" because of three great months in his career.

Take out his first three months of 2009 and he has a career 4.03 ERA. Heck, he pitched to a 4.68 ERA this year.

Jiminez is FAR from an ace. He's not even a #2.

The Rockies wanted: Jesus Montero, Ivan Nova, Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances for Jimenez. I wouldn't have given up any of them for him, and I'm glad Cashman didn't.

ERA is one small (and overrated) component of gauging a pitcher's talent. For the sake of keeping this abbreviated let's take a look at the two pitcher's WAR since 2008. Keep in mind Ubaldo is slighly more than one year older than Justin.

Ubaldo - 2008 4.3, 2009 5.9, 2010 6.4, 2011 3.5
Masterson - 2008 0.8, 2009 2.1, 2010 2.7, 2011 4.9

Even if you don't like WAR for evaluating pitchers results you can at least get the sense that they are not on the same level, generally speaking. No knock against Masterson for taking longer to get established in the majors. He had a tougher road to get to the show with Boston and a high-priced rotation blocking him. But nobody has ever mistaken him for an ace.

Masterson is an excellent ground-ball pitcher. He's a nice complement to any pitching staff, a solid #2 or very good #3. Ubaldo has much better pure stuff and the profile of an ace on a second division team or a solid #2 on any staff.

To sum it up: Ubaldo has better stats, better stuff, and has only had one down season since he broke in (which statistical analysis suggest 2011 was a fluke). And since you got so defensive about looking at stats, let's take a look at the best predictive stats (borrowed from a Dave Cameron piece for ESPN Insiders):

Thus, Ubaldo > Masterson. Class dismissed.

 

[vwnut13]

To sum it up: Ubaldo has better stats, better stuff, and has only had one down season since he broke in (which statistical analysis suggest 2011 was a fluke).

Are you sure that Ubaldo has only had one down year, or has he only had one great year (well, three months anyway)?

 

[carlitoson]

There aren't enough "Luigi's" in the bigs.

 

[RL24]

Ubaldo's numbers are skewed, you're comparing NL to AL and it really doesn't work.

Let's look at his AL stats, shall we? When he had to face 9 hitters in one lineup he had a 5.1 ERA. And since you don't like ERA, and you prefer WAR... an astounding -0.4!

Also, he has logged 1,032.1 innings of high altitude pitching.



I think Ubaldo is winding down a decent career and Masterson is just getting his started.... I watched him blank the Yankees this year for 8 innings, 3 hits. I was impressed with the kid. Then 3 days later he pitched the 9th and allowed 0 hits. What a guy!


If I was building a team and had my choice between the two... Masterson > Ubaldo

If I wanted to argue about who has more/better stats to this point, I'd hand it you, Ubaldo is better. Maybe I was confused about the Masterson > Ubaldo equation.


Don't get me wrong, I like Ubaldo (although he does collapse ala A.J. Burnett sometimes) and I think Ubaldo might be able to be a true Ace in the AL. Do I really see that happening though? Sadly, no. These are the Indians we are talking about.

 

[UMich92]

Nice to see Putnam on the back end of this list. With a good spring, maybe he'll earn a spot in the bullpen this year.

 

[chompsmcgee]

Ubaldo's numbers are skewed, you're comparing NL to AL and it really doesn't work.

Let's look at his AL stats, shall we? When he had to face 9 hitters in one lineup he had a 5.1 ERA. And since you don't like ERA, and you prefer WAR... an astounding -0.4!

Also, he has logged 1,032.1 innings of high altitude pitching.



I think Ubaldo is winding down a decent career and Masterson is just getting his started.... I watched him blank the Yankees this year for 8 innings, 3 hits. I was impressed with the kid. Then 3 days later he pitched the 9th and allowed 0 hits. What a guy!


If I was building a team and had my choice between the two... Masterson > Ubaldo

If I wanted to argue about who has more/better stats to this point, I'd hand it you, Ubaldo is better. Maybe I was confused about the Masterson > Ubaldo equation.


Don't get me wrong, I like Ubaldo (although he does collapse ala A.J. Burnett sometimes) and I think Ubaldo might be able to be a true Ace in the AL. Do I really see that happening though? Sadly, no. These are the Indians we are talking about.

So many things wrong with this post... Let's keep it simple:

1. Ubaldo's sample size in the AL is entirely too small to draw any conclusions from.
2. You keep diminishing Ubaldo as an "ace" but if the argument is Masterson > Ubaldo then you are arguing that Masterson is more of an "ace". No one on the planet thinks Justin is or ever will be an ace.
3. If Ubaldo logged 1,032.1 innings of high altitude pitching wouldn't that help his case as a better pitcher? Don't balls travel farther and routine fly balls end up passed the warning track in thin air?

I'm not entirely sure that you are aware of what you are arguing. However, you are entitled to whatever opinions you have formulated, no matter how flawed they may be. Thanks for the fun read!

 

[RL24]

Here, read the first little bit of this...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... index.html

And then read the 3rd paragraph from the bottom on this one, where it starts ""Mile high style" baseball has taken a heavy toll on the Rockies pitching staff."

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rock.shtml


I couldn't find the quote where Mike Hampton said he felt like he got hit by a bus every time he pitched a mile high. That was his take on pitching at high altitude. And if you look at the history of the Rockies, you can easily see that pitching here takes its toll on an arm.


Jimenez career has been going downhill, and I think the AL isn't the place for him. You don't agree and that's all good. I'm sure we will both enjoy watching and seeing how the future unfolds... I might not enjoy watching his AL sample size get bigger, so I do hope he gets better.

No one on the planet thinks Justin is or ever will be an ace.

You know what though, in 2007 this is what everybody was saying about Cliff Lee. Especially us Tribe fans. When I watch Justin pitch, I do see the occassional flash of mastery. When I watched Cliff Lee I mostly felt dread and waited for him let up some of those 6 runs per game.

 

[mwashuc06]

Having Howard at #2 is a joke, he will never pan out. He doesn't have the work ethic and doesnt like to compete.

How do you know this?

 

[Jaypers]

List is now online.