BP Phillies Top 11 Prospects

[HoustonTeams4Me]

.I have read scouting reports from websites I highly respect and that are highly respected through out the "prospectors univerise" giving Collier as a better prospect grade then Hosmer, Posey and Wallace..

I'd really like to see that.

not quoiting everything, just getting last sentance and final grade on them...

If Hosmer can make the necessary adjustments (an easier task given his overall athleticism), fill out his frame as expected, and display what most scouting reports say is an excellent approach at the plate, the Royals might just have a star on their hands.

Grade - B

[quote:b9orlkxf]This was a safe pick for the Cardinals, and if things play out like they should, Wallace shouldn't take too long before being ready for big-league pitching.

Grade - B

Since Posey plays at a premium defensive position, the potential to become a top-5 player at the position is there. Given the overall polish to his offensive game, Posey could move quickly.

Grade - B/B+

Collier might want to lower his hands to shorten his swing somewhat, but I like his swing a lot. His above-average-to-plus raw power will display itself as he adds more weight to his projectable frame and makes the minor tweaks to his swing. He provides great tools to work with and if developed properly, Collier could blossom into an above-average regular. Should he be playable in center field, Collier has an outside chance of becoming a top-5 offensive player at his position; however, Collier's arm is below average, and he might outgrow the position.

Grade - A-

[/quote:b9orlkxf]

I appreciate the link (& won't state it here as it is your source & I respect your wishes) but you do realize that these grade's are not "player grades" & are the draft grades that the team's received for thier pick's in the draft order (at least that is what you linked me). These grades are not so much focussed on the individual player's as how the team did at thier drafting per position, so comparing the Royals #3 (Hosmer) "B" to the Phillies #34 (Collier) "A-" isn't an adequate comparison (if comparing these player's straight up you would have to figure out what Collier's draft grade would have been for the particular place which the comparison player (Hosmer) was drafted...So Collier's grade if he was drafted #3 by the Royals (the Royals would probably have received a grade of F or F- in the Draft grade chart you sent me).

 

[HoustonTeams4Me]

[quote="Incline Investments":2sqhz8oi]

[quote="Incline Investments":2sqhz8oi]Anyone got a link that says Collier has "80 Power"? I would love to see that.

No, but I have one that says Hosmer has legit power that is going to go to waste unless he changes his swing which has too many parts, is too long and is basically a home run swing every time....not saying it can't be done...but swing tweeks are never easy...

I'm not a big Hosmer guy. I think Moustakas trumps him all day.

I just have never heard of Collier having 80 anything, let alone power.

Collier does not have 80 anything, he is about a 60 across the board with a 45-50 arm...i'll take the 60 (above average MLB) all day...[/quote:2sqhz8oi]

Ok, that is what I have heard. I wasn't questioning his comparison to those other guys (though I think that it is ridiculous to put him ahead of ANY of those guys). I was just trying to find the quote that says he has "80 Power", as someone stated earlier.

To be completely honest, I think Collier's prices are artificially inflated due to some big name prospectors stocking up early.[/quote:2sqhz8oi]

R.Howard posted earlier in this thread that "Hewitt" had 80 power, not Collier.

 

[andyduke86]

[quote="Incline Investments":3vin8jti]

[quote="Incline Investments":3vin8jti]Anyone got a link that says Collier has "80 Power"? I would love to see that.

No, but I have one that says Hosmer has legit power that is going to go to waste unless he changes his swing which has too many parts, is too long and is basically a home run swing every time....not saying it can't be done...but swing tweeks are never easy...

I'm not a big Hosmer guy. I think Moustakas trumps him all day.

I just have never heard of Collier having 80 anything, let alone power.

Collier does not have 80 anything, he is about a 60 across the board with a 45-50 arm...i'll take the 60 (above average MLB) all day...

Ok, that is what I have heard. I wasn't questioning his comparison to those other guys (though I think that it is ridiculous to put him ahead of ANY of those guys). I was just trying to find the quote that says he has "80 Power", as someone stated earlier.

To be completely honest, I think Collier's prices are artificially inflated due to some big name prospectors stocking up early.[/quote:3vin8jti]

R.Howard posted earlier in this thread that "Hewitt" had 80 power, not Collier.[/quote:3vin8jti]

These grades are ridiculous. No one in the minors has 80 power. There's maybe 5 guys that have legit 70-80 power potential but that would show up years down the line and is extremely unlikely. 80 Power is something that very, very few major leaguers have ever had. There are also no minor league hitters, let alone Collier, whose tools grade out as 60 across the board. Collier may have 60 potential, but that's his absolute best case scenerio and is unlikely to happen.


The only reason I mentioned Stanton was because the same critiques that you wrote regarding Hosmer's swing and why you don't like it are the same flaws in Stanton's swing, except they are even more pronounced.

 

[cgilmo]

check the scouting report on Jesus Montero and note where his power grades out

 

[andyduke86]

check the scouting report on Jesus Montero and note where his power grades out

Not at 80...Maybe power potential, but the chance of that being fulfilled are probably between 0 and 1%

 

[cgilmo]

check the scouting report on Jesus Montero and note where his power grades out

Not at 80...Maybe power potential, but the chance of that being fulfilled are probably between 0 and 1%

its not 80

montero grades out with 70 power

 

[andyduke86]

check the scouting report on Jesus Montero and note where his power grades out

Not at 80...Maybe power potential, but the chance of that being fulfilled are probably between 0 and 1%

its not 80

montero grades out with 70 power

No one in the minors currently has 70 power either. That's ridiculous.

 

[BowmanChromeAddict]

d'Arnaud kicks ass and i knew it. boo yeah.

 

[cgilmo]

check the scouting report on Jesus Montero and note where his power grades out

Not at 80...Maybe power potential, but the chance of that being fulfilled are probably between 0 and 1%

its not 80

montero grades out with 70 power

No one in the minors currently has 70 power either. That's ridiculous.

you could look it up ya know

I am not saying this just to practice typing

 

[andyduke86]

check the scouting report on Jesus Montero and note where his power grades out

Not at 80...Maybe power potential, but the chance of that being fulfilled are probably between 0 and 1%

its not 80

montero grades out with 70 power

No one in the minors currently has 70 power either. That's ridiculous.

you could look it up ya know

I am not saying this just to practice typing

I don't need to look it up because it's untrue. Perhaps you are confusing current and projected/future grades.

One thing I do know is that guys with 70 or 80 current power don't post an IsoP of .165 in the SAL.

 

[ryanhoward06]

[quote="Incline Investments":letlbkhm]

[quote="Incline Investments":letlbkhm]Anyone got a link that says Collier has "80 Power"? I would love to see that.

No, but I have one that says Hosmer has legit power that is going to go to waste unless he changes his swing which has too many parts, is too long and is basically a home run swing every time....not saying it can't be done...but swing tweeks are never easy...

I'm not a big Hosmer guy. I think Moustakas trumps him all day.

I just have never heard of Collier having 80 anything, let alone power.

Collier does not have 80 anything, he is about a 60 across the board with a 45-50 arm...i'll take the 60 (above average MLB) all day...

Ok, that is what I have heard. I wasn't questioning his comparison to those other guys (though I think that it is ridiculous to put him ahead of ANY of those guys). I was just trying to find the quote that says he has "80 Power", as someone stated earlier.

To be completely honest, I think Collier's prices are artificially inflated due to some big name prospectors stocking up early.

R.Howard posted earlier in this thread that "Hewitt" had 80 power, not Collier.[/quote:letlbkhm]

These grades are ridiculous. No one in the minors has 80 power. There's maybe 5 guys that have legit 70-80 power potential but that would show up years down the line and is extremely unlikely. 80 Power is something that very, very few major leaguers have ever had. There are also no minor league hitters, let alone Collier, whose tools grade out as 60 across the board. Collier may have 60 potential, but that's his absolute best case scenerio and is unlikely to happen.


The only reason I mentioned Stanton was because the same critiques that you wrote regarding Hosmer's swing and why you don't like it are the same flaws in Stanton's swing, except they are even more pronounced.[/quote:letlbkhm]

Since I have never seen in person or would know what too look all I can go off is scouting reports. All reports have Hewitt at 80 raw power. He was the best athlete in the entire draft. Now he is also the most unpolished guy. He will take years to develop but if he does his ceiling is 80 power. Chances of reaching the majors and fulfilling his ceiling are slim but the tools are there.


Dchurg- I wish Collier turns out as good as you say he is but the fact is he is not better the Hosmer, Wallace, or Posey. Not even close. I like Collier a lot but to say he is/could be better is crazy talk. He is also not better then Marson, Donald, Brown, or Taylor yet. Tough to say if he will be in the future too.

 

[thefasterblade]

Pretty crappy system.

 

[ryanhoward06]

Pretty crappy system.

Umm, it is actually pretty good. 3 Future Game participants, 2 catchers that look to be very promising(a third on it's way), OF's that have put up good numbers, 3 front end starters(2 of which will compete for the 5th spot in the rotation this year) and the lower minors are starting to fill up again. I can think of a lot of teams that have worse systems.

The system always has been under rated, but it has produced 2 MVP's, W.S. MVP, multiple all stars, the best 2nd basemen in the league, and was the reason they were able to win the W.S. The Phillies almost de-hype there prospects. I don't know why but they do this a lot.

Another thing to consider is how little they put in to the international market. That might change this year though.

 

[phillyfan0417]

Pretty crappy system.

Its a system with a bunch of lower level guys who need to develop to make it a good system. It doesnt have alot of big "now" names but a couple of those players have a chance to be big time prospects...

 

[soxrchamps07]

[quote="Incline Investments":122ggc0v]Anyone got a link that says Collier has "80 Power"? I would love to see that.

No, but I have one that says Hosmer has legit power that is going to go to waste unless he changes his swing which has too many parts, is too long and is basically a home run swing every time....not saying it can't be done...but swing tweeks are never easy...

I'm not a big Hosmer guy. I think Moustakas trumps him all day.

I just have never heard of Collier having 80 anything, let alone power.

Collier does not have 80 anything, he is about a 60 across the board with a 45-50 arm...i'll take the 60 (above average MLB) all day...

Just curious, but can we get a link to your above "quote's"? I'd like to see where they are from & what you left out. (Also, I highly doubt any of the top prospect site's would stick to your comparison (maybe someone can ask BA who's the better prospect's: Wallace, Posey, Hosmer, or Collier...I'm going on a hunch that says Collier comes in 4th in that group).[/quote:122ggc0v]

if you want the full scouting report from dcurgs quotes ill gladly pm them to ya.

 

[dchurg]

Dchurg- I wish Collier turns out as good as you say he is but the fact is he is not better the Hosmer, Wallace, or Posey. Not even close. I like Collier a lot but to say he is/could be better is crazy talk. He is also not better then Marson, Donald, Brown, or Taylor yet. Tough to say if he will be in the future too.

any of the top 25 prospects from the 08 draft can end up being better or worse then any other prospect below or above them on the list. You saying that me saying Collier could end up better then Hosmer(or any one for that matter)is crazy talk, well, thats just crazy talk .
Obviously if you go off cieling I would go:
Hosmer
Posey
Wallace
Collier

But who do I think will be the best MLB player in 5 years:
Posey
Collier
Wallace
Hosmer

Only put Collier ahead of Wallace assuming Wallace can't stick at 3rd and Collier CAN stick at CF(unlikely). I honestly see wallace and collier as the same hitter except wallace with a slight edge in power and collier with a slight edge in speed...

 

[andyduke86]

Since I have never seen in person or would know what too look all I can go off is scouting reports. All reports have Hewitt at 80 raw power. He was the best athlete in the entire draft. Now he is also the most unpolished guy. He will take years to develop but if he does his ceiling is 80 power. Chances of reaching the majors and fulfilling his ceiling are slim but the tools are there.

You really should stop exaggerating. No legit reports have Hewitt as 80 raw power, that's just absurd. Good power, yes, but not 80 power. I know everyone here wants "their guy" to have 80 power or power potential and will claim they do all day, but the reality is that they don't.

 

[ballerskrip]

Where is Justin Smoak? He might the best of the whole group that you listed....

Dchurg- I wish Collier turns out as good as you say he is but the fact is he is not better the Hosmer, Wallace, or Posey. Not even close. I like Collier a lot but to say he is/could be better is crazy talk. He is also not better then Marson, Donald, Brown, or Taylor yet. Tough to say if he will be in the future too.

any of the top 25 prospects from the 08 draft can end up being better or worse then any other prospect below or above them on the list. You saying that me saying Collier could end up better then Hosmer(or any one for that matter)is crazy talk, well, thats just crazy talk .
Obviously if you go off cieling I would go:
Hosmer
Posey
Wallace
Collier

But who do I think will be the best MLB player in 5 years:
Posey
Collier
Wallace
Hosmer

Only put Collier ahead of Wallace assuming Wallace can't stick at 3rd and Collier CAN stick at CF(unlikely). I honestly see wallace and collier as the same hitter except wallace with a slight edge in power and collier with a slight edge in speed...

 

[ballerskrip]

"Since I have never seen in person or would know what too look all I can go off is scouting reports. All reports have Hewitt at 80 raw power. He was the best athlete in the entire draft. Now he is also the most unpolished guy. He will take years to develop but if he does his ceiling is 80 power. Chances of reaching the majors and fulfilling his ceiling are slim but the tools are there.


Dchurg- I wish Collier turns out as good as you say he is but the fact is he is not better the Hosmer, Wallace, or Posey. Not even close. I like Collier a lot but to say he is/could be better is crazy talk. He is also not better then Marson, Donald, Brown, or Taylor yet. Tough to say if he will be in the future too.[/quote]

First off, Collier does NOT have 80 power. Sorry. He doesn't. Please pass the crack pipe and stop hitting it.

There are probably only 8-10 players in the major leagues that have 80 power, maybe not that many. There are plenty of guys that hit 30 homeruns a year that have 60 power. Do you uunderstand that? I am guessing that you don't have a freaking clue what scouting is about, what the scale means, and what 80 power is. With the Angels I spent time with multiple scouts that NEVER put an 80 on ANYTHING in many years of scouting......

If you don't have a clue, then keep the jibberish to yourself.

skrip

 

[andyduke86]

First off, Collier does NOT have 80 power. Sorry. He doesn't. Please pass the crack pipe and stop hitting it.

There are probably only 8-10 players in the major leagues that have 80 power, maybe not that many. There are plenty of guys that hit 30 homeruns a year that have 60 power. Do you uunderstand that? I am guessing that you don't have a freaking clue what scouting is about, what the scale means, and what 80 power is. With the Angels I spent time with multiple scouts that NEVER put an 80 on ANYTHING in many years of scouting......

If you don't have a clue, then keep the jibberish to yourself.

skrip

Wow, someone else who actually knows whats up with scouting and what the scale actually means.