C.C. Sabathia for CY Young

[thenumberonemetfan]

[quote="LLWesMan":1et2tzeh][quote="ostrander111":1et2tzeh][quote="LLWesMan":1et2tzeh][quote="ostrander111":1et2tzeh]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quote:1et2tzeh]

How?[/quote:1et2tzeh]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quote:1et2tzeh]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quote:1et2tzeh]


well if thats the case 10 wins 121k's and a 1.78 era doesn't win a cy young.

 

[Nick1190]

With Lincecum's domination today, (And me being biased) I am saying lincy

Oh, before making this thread, I thought that you would have voted for Santana.

 

[ostrander111]

[quote="ostrander111":2gr0wnaz][quote="LLWesMan":2gr0wnaz][quote="ostrander111":2gr0wnaz][quote="LLWesMan":2gr0wnaz][quote="ostrander111":2gr0wnaz]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quote:2gr0wnaz]

How?[/quote:2gr0wnaz]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quote:2gr0wnaz]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quote:2gr0wnaz]


well if thats the case 10 wins 121k's and a 1.78 era doesn't win a cy young.[/quote:2gr0wnaz]

I think it does.

 

[Wes]

[quote="LLWesMan":1622eywc][quote="ostrander111":1622eywc][quote="LLWesMan":1622eywc][quote="ostrander111":1622eywc]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quote:1622eywc]

How?[/quote:1622eywc]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quote:1622eywc]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quote:1622eywc]

It is also an award for the best pitcher of the year, which includes March, April, May June and July when Sabathia was not even in the league. Zero contributions over 4.5 months or so can't possibly be made up for even with a 11-2 finish.

 

[darocker80]

With Lincecum's domination today, (And me being biased) I am saying lincy

Oh, before making this thread, I thought that you would have voted for Santana.

i would over webb

 

[ostrander111]

[quote="ostrander111":2urzmel8][quote="LLWesMan":2urzmel8][quote="ostrander111":2urzmel8][quote="LLWesMan":2urzmel8][quote="ostrander111":2urzmel8]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quote:2urzmel8]

How?[/quote:2urzmel8]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quote:2urzmel8]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quote:2urzmel8]

It is also an award for the best pitcher of the year, which includes March, April, May June and July when Sabathia was not even in the league. Zero contributions over 4.5 months or so can't possibly be made up for even with a 11-2 finish.[/quote:2urzmel8]

Okay, if you put it that way it kinda makes me change my mind....GOOO LINCY!!!

 

[Wes]

[quote="LLWesMan":1yll5p5g][quote="ostrander111":1yll5p5g][quote="LLWesMan":1yll5p5g][quote="ostrander111":1yll5p5g][quote="LLWesMan":1yll5p5g][quote="ostrander111":1yll5p5g]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quote:1yll5p5g]

How?[/quote:1yll5p5g]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quote:1yll5p5g]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quote:1yll5p5g]


well if thats the case 10 wins 121k's and a 1.78 era doesn't win a cy young.[/quote:1yll5p5g]

I think it does.[/quote:1yll5p5g]

Would love to see your explanation for how that represents the best season of any pitcher in the National League.
No chance you can say to someone "Hey can someone with 10 wins and 121 k's be the Cy Young over someone with 22 wins 3.30 ERA or someone with 18 wins and 140 more strikeouts and a 2.60 ERA." and have them say the 10 win guy wins.

 

[Wes]

[quote="LLWesMan"n85zs59][quote="ostrander111"n85zs59][quote="LLWesMan"n85zs59][quote="ostrander111"n85zs59][quote="LLWesMan"n85zs59][quote="ostrander111"n85zs59]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quoten85zs59]

How?[/quoten85zs59]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quoten85zs59]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quoten85zs59]

It is also an award for the best pitcher of the year, which includes March, April, May June and July when Sabathia was not even in the league. Zero contributions over 4.5 months or so can't possibly be made up for even with a 11-2 finish.[/quoten85zs59]

Okay, if you put it that way it kinda makes me change my mind....GOOO LINCY!!![/quoten85zs59]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but as was said earlier in the thread I would have less issue with Sabathia winning MVP than Cy Young, since MVP includes the impossible to quantify "value" criteria and Cy Young is simply most outstanding.

 

[soccerman034]

I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

 

[ostrander111]

[quote="ostrander111":10l2s2vo][quote="LLWesMan":10l2s2vo][quote="ostrander111":10l2s2vo][quote="LLWesMan":10l2s2vo][quote="ostrander111":10l2s2vo][quote="LLWesMan":10l2s2vo][quote="ostrander111":10l2s2vo]Its gotta be CC. He is like 10-1 with the brewers.

Cy Young is a year long award, You have to take into account his stats with Cleveland if you want to give him a look as Cy Young.

16-10, 2.80 ERA 244 K

i do believe its the NATIONAL LEAGUE Cy Young award. Am i right?

it is also the award for the best pitcher OVER THE WHOLE YEAR. I'm guessing that CC wasn't near the best pitching in March, April, May or June in the NL.

Hmmmmm.....Really?

I think I was agreeing with you.[/quote:10l2s2vo]

How?[/quote:10l2s2vo]

Nevermind I see you are saying that only his NL stats should count for/against him winning.[/quote:10l2s2vo]

Well, it is the NL cy young......[/quote:10l2s2vo]

It is also an award for the best pitcher of the year, which includes March, April, May June and July when Sabathia was not even in the league. Zero contributions over 4.5 months or so can't possibly be made up for even with a 11-2 finish.[/quote:10l2s2vo]

Okay, if you put it that way it kinda makes me change my mind....GOOO LINCY!!![/quote:10l2s2vo]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but as was said earlier in the thread I would have less issue with Sabathia winning MVP than Cy Young, since MVP includes the impossible to quantify "value" criteria and Cy Young is simply most outstanding.[/quote:10l2s2vo]

no im being dead serious. I mean it. Lincy deserves the cy young.

 

[darocker80]

I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

What aabout webb when he went on that losing streak and had 18 ER in his last three starts. And why not include today?

 

[MOFNY]

I think we are seeing some bias with CC. Milwaukee is ready to hand over control of the city to this guy. MVP? Really? You know I can be biased too...Oswalt was 10-2 in the second half like CC. ERA of 2.22, 3 CG and 2 SO, and 32 1/3 scoreless innings. O ye and he won on 3 days rest too. How come he isn't getting any CY or MVP consideration...o ye that's right because it sounds stupid.

 

[darocker80]

I think we are seeing some bias with CC. Milwaukee is ready to hand over control of the city to this guy. MVP? Really? You know I can be biased too...Oswalt was 10-2 in the second half like CC. ERA of 2.22, 3 CG and 2 SO, and 32 1/3 scoreless innings. O ye and he won on 3 days rest too. How come he isn't getting any CY or MVP consideration...o ye that's right because it sounds stupid.

Is he a FA now?

 

[MOFNY]

I think we are seeing some bias with CC. Milwaukee is ready to hand over control of the city to this guy. MVP? Really? You know I can be biased too...Oswalt was 10-2 in the second half like CC. ERA of 2.22, 3 CG and 2 SO, and 32 1/3 scoreless innings. O ye and he won on 3 days rest too. How come he isn't getting any CY or MVP consideration...o ye that's right because it sounds stupid.

Is he a FA now?

Who Oswalt? Stros have him most likely for the rest of his career. But he has 3 or so years left on the contract. Sabathia will be not be in Milwaukee next year.

 

[Wes]

I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

I signed on after he was already out of the game so I'm quite certain his stats couldn't change over our little discussion. Nonetheless the game is over now so if you choose to revise your statement about him struggling to the finish line I will accept your apology.

 

[Anthony K.]

I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

I signed on after he was already out of the game so I'm quite certain his stats couldn't change over our little discussion. Nonetheless the game is over now so if you choose to revise your statement about him struggling to the finish line I will accept your apology.

You and stanthemanmusial should hang out.

You guys would fit right in with each other.

Taking homerism to a WHOLE new level. (I thought about getting really derogatory, but I actually enjoy these boards).

My vote...Johan. Even over Lincecum. He will get his in due time (just have him ask Albert Pujols about losing out on big awards).

 

[Wes]

I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

I signed on after he was already out of the game so I'm quite certain his stats couldn't change over our little discussion. Nonetheless the game is over now so if you choose to revise your statement about him struggling to the finish line I will accept your apology.

You and stanthemanmusial should hang out.

You guys would fit right in with each other.

Taking homerism to a WHOLE new level. (I thought about getting really derogatory, but I actually enjoy these boards).

My vote...Johan. Even over Lincecum. He will get his in due time (just have him ask Albert Pujols about losing out on big awards).

Can't stand that guy. As far as homerism I am actually a Red Sox fan who happens to live in the Bay Area. Not sure how my arguments in this thread reflect "a whole new level" of homerism.

However I too enjoy the baseball debating on here so I hope nobody is taking anything here too personally.

 

[Anthony K.]

[quote="soccerman034":2uqwxw3z]I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

I signed on after he was already out of the game so I'm quite certain his stats couldn't change over our little discussion. Nonetheless the game is over now so if you choose to revise your statement about him struggling to the finish line I will accept your apology.

You and stanthemanmusial should hang out.

You guys would fit right in with each other.

Taking homerism to a WHOLE new level. (I thought about getting really derogatory, but I actually enjoy these boards).

My vote...Johan. Even over Lincecum. He will get his in due time (just have him ask Albert Pujols about losing out on big awards).

Can't stand that guy. As far as homerism I am actually a Red Sox fan who happens to live in the Bay Area. Not sure how my arguments in this thread reflect "a whole new level" of homerism.

However I too enjoy the baseball debating on here so I hope nobody is taking anything here too personally.[/quote:2uqwxw3z]

Maybe not homerism (figured you for a San Fran fan because of how you have been "defending" Lincy), but you have been ALL over Lincecum's **** in this thread.

Seriously.

No need to get up in arms over someone disagreeing with you (or making a valid point, you know that the last month or so can decide a Cy Young race).

I too enjoy debate, but you just see ma little too obsessed with this thread and Lincecum.

 

[Wes]

[quote="Anthony K.":2sthbb35]

[quote="soccerman034":2sthbb35]I wasn't counting todays game (if you can call playing the Dodgers AAA team a game), but even then his ERA in the last six is 3.7, which is indeed bad for him.

LOL make up your mind, first you say his last five starts were horrible and when its pointed out that his last five starts ERA is 2.70 then you add one which raises his ERA. Well how about we add the three before that, when he gave up 2 earned runs in 23 1/3 innings! I'm sorry but your argument as to him struggling finishing the season is absolute nonsense. Yes, he had two bad starts, but to say that 2 bad starts mixed with eight dominant ones in his last month or two of the season is ridiculous.

His last five starts, not including the game that was inprogress when I made the post, DID HAVE AN ERA OVER 4. You just sound like a homer looking for any single point you can nitpick.

I signed on after he was already out of the game so I'm quite certain his stats couldn't change over our little discussion. Nonetheless the game is over now so if you choose to revise your statement about him struggling to the finish line I will accept your apology.

You and stanthemanmusial should hang out.

You guys would fit right in with each other.

Taking homerism to a WHOLE new level. (I thought about getting really derogatory, but I actually enjoy these boards).

My vote...Johan. Even over Lincecum. He will get his in due time (just have him ask Albert Pujols about losing out on big awards).

Can't stand that guy. As far as homerism I am actually a Red Sox fan who happens to live in the Bay Area. Not sure how my arguments in this thread reflect "a whole new level" of homerism.

However I too enjoy the baseball debating on here so I hope nobody is taking anything here too personally.[/quote:2sthbb35]

Maybe not homerism (figured you for a San Fran fan because of how you have been "defending" Lincy), but you have been ALL over Lincecum's **** in this thread.

Seriously.

No need to get up in arms over someone disagreeing with you (or making a valid point, you know that the last month or so can decide a Cy Young race).

I too enjoy debate, but you just see ma little too obsessed with this thread and Lincecum.[/quote:2sthbb35]

I wouldn't say that I am "up in arms" over others disagreeing. In fact I have no idea who soccerman even wants to win. He came in with a lot of false statistics as well as bold claims about late season struggles which simply aren''t true. So I would hardly say that his point was valid.

I do know that the last month or so can decide a Cy Young race. Quite simply his final month or two have been very strong and he has not shown soccerman's so called "overuse."

I type quickly so it may seem like obsession to some but my points take me very little time to create. Having watched Lincecum and Webb pitch all season I feel like I can make pretty accurate statements and arguments about his season. I do not claim expertise over the intricacies of every player or team in the game but when someone comes on here and says Lincecum struggled from overuse in his finish to the season I have to disagree since I have watched essentially all of his starts this season.

His velocity and movement have not deteriorated one bit and his deception and effectiveness honestly should not at this point be in question.

 

[soccerman034]

All of my statistics are fine. His last 5 starts not including today he had an ERA over 4. Including todays game, he has an ERA of 3.7 over his last 6, which is a full run over his season average. That is struggling to me, but apparently not to you because you want Lincecum to win. Instead of struggling, how about inconsistent? Does that suit you better. Lincecum supporters have clung to statistics all year, but what argument does he have now except for SO? Johan leads him in the 2 most important area's in terms of pitching (ERA and IP), and compares with him when it comes to wins and SO; he also pitched his team into contention and single handedly kept them in the race down the stretch.

Any young pitcher, even with perfect mechanics, deteriorate when overused. Mark Prior had great mechanics, but as the IP piled up, his arm disentegrated. What happens when you over work a young player with a maximum effort delivery? The fact is, these last few weeks have been next to meaningless for the Giants, and the fact that they have allowed him to consistently go over 100 pitches is appalling. Thats how you tell the difference between Lincecum homers and Giants fans; Lincecum supporters want him to pitch a complete game every night, and Giants fans cringe at that thought....they want to have him intact when they are playoff contenders, not while they are at the bottom of the league.