Can You Tell ESPN Likes???

[mlbsalltimegreats]

Bottom Line Wade has been a better player than Kobe with less and that is why he got a vote over Kobe. Kobe no longer has the legs he once had or the legs Wade has and now has to pick his spots. That is not a bad thing because he is now a smarter basketball player. I firmly believe that if you took Wade off the Heat they would be #1 in the lottery and if you took Kobe off the Laker they would still be in the playoffs contending for the 3rd or 4th spot. I think People underestimate Coach Phil Jackson as he just knows how to bring the best out of his bench and Role guys. I can guarantee that if any other coach were coaching the Lakers they would not have won 60 games. Look at it like this, take the Heat coach (?) and switch with Lakers coach (Phil Jackson) and see the Heat have a much better record and the Lakers tettering on 60 win if not less. Or Take Mike Brown (Cavs Coach) and again Switch out with Lakers Coach (Phil Jackson) . No disrespect to the Heat coach or Mike Brown as both have done phenomenal Jobs with their teams but they are no Phil Jacksons. The reason I think the Lakers wouldnt be so bad without Kobe is because Odom gets held back because of Kobe and would play much better without him and thus the Lakers would not be that bad of a Team without Kobe. Is there a reason Odom is held back? Yes because because Kobe is a better player. Could the Lakers Contend for the title with Odom playing better and no Kobe? No they couldnt they need kobe to Contend. To me the Lakers with who they have now come out like the Mavs, High winning Record (55-60 wins) but dont go anywhere in the playoffs. Now I dont like Kobe but I respect the Fact that the Guy can flat out play and the Lakers Need him to get to the Finals and win playoff games but no matter how you look at it he has alot better players (and a Hof Coach) than Wade has. All this just makes my case that Wade doea better with less and is more valuable than Kobe.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

Bottom Line Wade has been a better player than Kobe with less and that is why he got a vote over Kobe. Kobe no longer has the legs he once had or the legs Wade has and now has to pick his spots. That is not a bad thing because he is now a smarter basketball player. I firmly believe that if you took Wade off the Heat they would be #1 in the lottery and if you took Kobe off the Laker they would still be in the playoffs contending for the 3rd or 4th spot. I think People underestimate Coach Phil Jackson as he just knows how to bring the best out of his bench and Role guys. I can guarantee that if any other coach were coaching the Lakers they would not have won 60 games. Look at it like this, take the Heat coach (?) and switch with Lakers coach (Phil Jackson) and see the Heat have a much better record and the Lakers tettering on 60 win if not less. Or Take Mike Brown (Cavs Coach) and again Switch out with Lakers Coach (Phil Jackson) . No disrespect to the Heat coach or Mike Brown as both have done phenomenal Jobs with their teams but they are no Phil Jacksons. The reason I think the Lakers wouldnt be so bad without Kobe is because Odom gets held back because of Kobe and would play much better without him and thus the Lakers would not be that bad of a Team without Kobe. Is there a reason Odom is held back? Yes because because Kobe is a better player. Could the Lakers Contend for the title with Odom playing better and no Kobe? No they couldnt they need kobe to Contend. To me the Lakers with who they have now come out like the Mavs, High winning Record (55-60 wins) but dont go anywhere in the playoffs. Now I dont like Kobe but I respect the Fact that the Guy can flat out play and the Lakers Need him to get to the Finals and win playoff games but no matter how you look at it he has alot better players (and a Hof Coach) than Wade has. All this just makes my case that Wade doea better with less and is more valuable than Kobe.

You cannot really think if you took Kobe off of the Lakers in the west they would be the 3 or 4 seed can you? Do you really think a team of Gasol/Odom/Bynum(for half the year)/Fisher and whoever they put at sg would be 3 or 4? This is likely one of the craziest statment's I have ever heard. What did Gasol do in Memphis? Do you think he could carry a team? Do you really think he is not a better play because of Kobe? Before you say Gasol had nobody, he had a similar talent player in Rudy Gay=Lamar Odom. BTW, you seem to love Lamar Odom. Ask any Laker/Clipper/Heat fan what they think about Odom, so much talent and doesn't show up when it counts. SEE LAST YEARS NBA FINALS.

I would give 1000 to 1 odds, that the lakers would be out of the playoffs or the 8 seed at best without kobe.

I'd love to hear more reasoning, I understand you don't like Kobe, but that is like me saying the Celtics should be a 8 seed, just because I don't like them.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

Bottom Line Wade has been a better player than Kobe with less and that is why he got a vote over Kobe. Kobe no longer has the legs he once had or the legs Wade has and now has to pick his spots. That is not a bad thing because he is now a smarter basketball player. I firmly believe that if you took Wade off the Heat they would be #1 in the lottery and if you took Kobe off the Laker they would still be in the playoffs contending for the 3rd or 4th spot. I think People underestimate Coach Phil Jackson as he just knows how to bring the best out of his bench and Role guys. I can guarantee that if any other coach were coaching the Lakers they would not have won 60 games. Look at it like this, take the Heat coach (?) and switch with Lakers coach (Phil Jackson) and see the Heat have a much better record and the Lakers tettering on 60 win if not less. Or Take Mike Brown (Cavs Coach) and again Switch out with Lakers Coach (Phil Jackson) . No disrespect to the Heat coach or Mike Brown as both have done phenomenal Jobs with their teams but they are no Phil Jacksons. The reason I think the Lakers wouldnt be so bad without Kobe is because Odom gets held back because of Kobe and would play much better without him and thus the Lakers would not be that bad of a Team without Kobe. Is there a reason Odom is held back? Yes because because Kobe is a better player. Could the Lakers Contend for the title with Odom playing better and no Kobe? No they couldnt they need kobe to Contend. To me the Lakers with who they have now come out like the Mavs, High winning Record (55-60 wins) but dont go anywhere in the playoffs. Now I dont like Kobe but I respect the Fact that the Guy can flat out play and the Lakers Need him to get to the Finals and win playoff games but no matter how you look at it he has alot better players (and a Hof Coach) than Wade has. All this just makes my case that Wade doea better with less and is more valuable than Kobe.

You cannot really think if you took Kobe off of the Lakers in the west they would be the 3 or 4 seed can you? Do you really think a team of Gasol/Odom/Bynum(for half the year)/Fisher and whoever they put at sg would be 3 or 4? This is likely one of the craziest statment's I have ever heard. What did Gasol do in Memphis? Do you think he could carry a team? Do you really think he is not a better play because of Kobe? Before you say Gasol had nobody, he had a similar talent player in Rudy Gay=Lamar Odom. BTW, you seem to love Lamar Odom. Ask any Laker/Clipper/Heat fan what they think about Odom, so much talent and doesn't show up when it counts. SEE LAST YEARS NBA FINALS.

I would give 1000 to 1 odds, that the lakers would be out of the playoffs or the 8 seed at best without kobe.

I'd love to hear more reasoning, I understand you don't like Kobe, but that is like me saying the Celtics should be a 8 seed, just because I don't like them.

First off you would be a very poor man if you were to take those 1000 to 1 odds and the part about the being the 8 seed because you dont like them is :?. What does that have to do with anything. I am accually giving you Lakers a lot of praise that they would be able to hold the fort down if Kobe had to be out. Like I said people underestimate coach Phil Jackson and Rudy gay does not = Odom. Odom is a much more seasoned/ better player. With Gasol saying that he had as good of player as he does now is debatable but what is not debatable is the difference in a winning attitude that you have between the Laker and the Grizzles. The lakers history is all about winning and Gasol coming over to LA made a huge difference in his moral and state of mind that has made him a much better player than he was in Memphis. You saying the Lakers would be out of the playoff is pretty funny in its self. Yes they would be in the 3rd and 4th seed because guy like Bynum/Odom/Gasol would put up the slack. Just like when Odom has his chances you would see him really pick up his game. You forget that Kobe was (I'm still not sure that he is) not a fan of the triangle offense. The offense can be ran thru almost anyone. That and the fact that most of the laker team now has some experience tells you this team would do much better than you think. See the difference between Kobe and Wade is Kobe has helped set a good foundation in LA and if Kobe were to go down for the whole season The triangle offense would not allow for the whole team to collapse but would still be able to hold firm. That's the beauty of Phil's offense is that you can be out for months at a time and come back and be thrown into the triangle offense with out much if any disruption. Bynum has been a very good example of this as he has literally picked up where he left off. Now with Wade he is the whole foundation!! There is no set system on the heat as almost everything they do goes thru D-Wade. So if D-wade goes down for the year so does the whole team and they completely collapse and work on whom they are going to pick #1. I guess it's just a matter of opinion. The only real way to find out is if Kobe get a season ending injury and the Lakers have to play next season without him in the line-up and im sure as a Laker fan that would be something you would rather not see.

 

[minpin]

The stats look great, but don't forget these:

Turnovers per game:

Wade 3.4 #1 in the East
Kobe 2.6
Lebron 3.0 #5 in the East

Unfortunately they rank pretty high as you would expect with the ball in their hands as much as it is.

My vote....Lebron for MVP as he's earned it!

 

[BGSRCGUY]

Bottom Line Wade has been a better player than Kobe with less and that is why he got a vote over Kobe. Kobe no longer has the legs he once had or the legs Wade has and now has to pick his spots. That is not a bad thing because he is now a smarter basketball player. I firmly believe that if you took Wade off the Heat they would be #1 in the lottery and if you took Kobe off the Laker they would still be in the playoffs contending for the 3rd or 4th spot. I think People underestimate Coach Phil Jackson as he just knows how to bring the best out of his bench and Role guys. I can guarantee that if any other coach were coaching the Lakers they would not have won 60 games. Look at it like this, take the Heat coach (?) and switch with Lakers coach (Phil Jackson) and see the Heat have a much better record and the Lakers tettering on 60 win if not less. Or Take Mike Brown (Cavs Coach) and again Switch out with Lakers Coach (Phil Jackson) . No disrespect to the Heat coach or Mike Brown as both have done phenomenal Jobs with their teams but they are no Phil Jacksons. The reason I think the Lakers wouldnt be so bad without Kobe is because Odom gets held back because of Kobe and would play much better without him and thus the Lakers would not be that bad of a Team without Kobe. Is there a reason Odom is held back? Yes because because Kobe is a better player. Could the Lakers Contend for the title with Odom playing better and no Kobe? No they couldnt they need kobe to Contend. To me the Lakers with who they have now come out like the Mavs, High winning Record (55-60 wins) but dont go anywhere in the playoffs. Now I dont like Kobe but I respect the Fact that the Guy can flat out play and the Lakers Need him to get to the Finals and win playoff games but no matter how you look at it he has alot better players (and a Hof Coach) than Wade has. All this just makes my case that Wade doea better with less and is more valuable than Kobe.

You cannot really think if you took Kobe off of the Lakers in the west they would be the 3 or 4 seed can you? Do you really think a team of Gasol/Odom/Bynum(for half the year)/Fisher and whoever they put at sg would be 3 or 4? This is likely one of the craziest statment's I have ever heard. What did Gasol do in Memphis? Do you think he could carry a team? Do you really think he is not a better play because of Kobe? Before you say Gasol had nobody, he had a similar talent player in Rudy Gay=Lamar Odom. BTW, you seem to love Lamar Odom. Ask any Laker/Clipper/Heat fan what they think about Odom, so much talent and doesn't show up when it counts. SEE LAST YEARS NBA FINALS.

I would give 1000 to 1 odds, that the lakers would be out of the playoffs or the 8 seed at best without kobe.

I'd love to hear more reasoning, I understand you don't like Kobe, but that is like me saying the Celtics should be a 8 seed, just because I don't like them.

First off you would be a very poor man if you were to take those 1000 to 1 odds and the part about the being the 8 seed because you dont like them is :?. What does that have to do with anything. I am accually giving you Lakers a lot of praise that they would be able to hold the fort down if Kobe had to be out. Like I said people underestimate coach Phil Jackson and Rudy gay does not = Odom. Odom is a much more seasoned/ better player. With Gasol saying that he had as good of player as he does now is debatable but what is not debatable is the difference in a winning attitude that you have between the Laker and the Grizzles. The lakers history is all about winning and Gasol coming over to LA made a huge difference in his moral and state of mind that has made him a much better player than he was in Memphis. You saying the Lakers would be out of the playoff is pretty funny in its self. Yes they would be in the 3rd and 4th seed because guy like Bynum/Odom/Gasol would put up the slack. Just like when Odom has his chances you would see him really pick up his game. You forget that Kobe was (I'm still not sure that he is) not a fan of the triangle offense. The offense can be ran thru almost anyone. That and the fact that most of the laker team now has some experience tells you this team would do much better than you think. See the difference between Kobe and Wade is Kobe has helped set a good foundation in LA and if Kobe were to go down for the whole season The triangle offense would not allow for the whole team to collapse but would still be able to hold firm. That's the beauty of Phil's offense is that you can be out for months at a time and come back and be thrown into the triangle offense with out much if any disruption. Bynum has been a very good example of this as he has literally picked up where he left off. Now with Wade he is the whole foundation!! There is no set system on the heat as almost everything they do goes thru D-Wade. So if D-wade goes down for the year so does the whole team and they completely collapse and work on whom they are going to pick #1. I guess it's just a matter of opinion. The only real way to find out is if Kobe get a season ending injury and the Lakers have to play next season without him in the line-up and im sure as a Laker fan that would be something you would rather not see.

Ill go step by step:
First, I used that example to show you how ludicrous your statement is, no way do I believe the celtics are the 8th best team in the east. Wade's statistical numbers are slightly better than Kobe's. I understand this, I also understand Kobe doesn't score or Rebound as much because he doesn't have too.

As for the odds, I surely would not make that statement, If did not believe I would win. The Lakers with that team would not even be in the top 3-4 in the east, and the east has 3 good teams.

You keep saying Odom is held back, that is untrue. Odom is inconsistent, always has been always will be. From his days of smoking pot, to not showing up i big games, its just who he is.

You say Bynum/Odom would pick up the slack, again I question how much Laker basketball you watch? Bynum has played 85 games in the last two seasons, so maybe he could pick up the slack for 30-50 games before getting sidelined.

Phil Jackson is a good coach, but he isn't underrated by anymeans. He has always had good players, and usually 2 of them at that.

You keep saying if you take D-Wade off the team the team collapses. That is subjective. I'd say they would win around 20 games, I believe the Lakers in the West win 25 games without Kobe, yes 25. However, I never brought the argument of removing players you did. I only brought up the argument of swapping players. If the mvp was simply who did the most for their team and carried them the most, Allen Iverson would've been MVP every year for multiple seasons. Thats not what the MVP is about.


For argument sake, here was Gasol's team 22-60 in 06-07, in comparison to this years laker roster without kobe. Is the lakers roster that much better to win 50+ games? I think not.

No. Player Pos
3 Chucky Atkins G
35 Brian Cardinal F
5 Will Conroy G
16 Pau Gasol F
22 Rudy Gay F
10 Junior Harrington G
32 Alexander Johnson F
30 Dahntay Jones G
6 Eddie Jones G-F
7 Tarence Kinsey G
1 Kyle Lowry G
33 Mike Miller F
34 Scott Padgett F
44 Lawrence Roberts F
20 Damon Stoudamire G
4 Stromile Swift F
12 Jake Tsakalidis C
21 Hakim Warrick F

No. Player Pos
3 Trevor Ariza F
12 Shannon Brown G
17 Andrew Bynum C
5 Jordan Farmar G
2 Derek Fisher G
16 Pau Gasol F
28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C
31 Chris Mihm C
6 Adam Morrison F
7 Lamar Odom F
21 Josh Powell F
10 Vladimir Radmanovic F
18 Sasha Vujacic G
4 Luke Walton F
9 Sun Yue G

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

For argument sake, here was Gasol's team 22-60 in 06-07, in comparison to this years laker roster without kobe. Is the lakers roster that much better to win 50+ games? I think not.

No. Player Pos
3 Chucky Atkins G
35 Brian Cardinal F
5 Will Conroy G
16 Pau Gasol F
22 Rudy Gay F
10 Junior Harrington G
32 Alexander Johnson F
30 Dahntay Jones G
6 Eddie Jones G-F
7 Tarence Kinsey G
1 Kyle Lowry G
33 Mike Miller F
34 Scott Padgett F
44 Lawrence Roberts F
20 Damon Stoudamire G
4 Stromile Swift F
12 Jake Tsakalidis C
21 Hakim Warrick F

No. Player Pos
3 Trevor Ariza F
12 Shannon Brown G
17 Andrew Bynum C
5 Jordan Farmar G
2 Derek Fisher G
16 Pau Gasol F
28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C
31 Chris Mihm C
6 Adam Morrison F
7 Lamar Odom F
21 Josh Powell F
10 Vladimir Radmanovic F
18 Sasha Vujacic G
4 Luke Walton F
9 Sun Yue G

While I don't think the Lakers win 50 without Kobe, I do think the rest of the team is significantly better than the grizzlies team. Remember that at the time some of the decent names on the Grizz were rookies or hadn't done anything in the league yet (Gay and Warrick). I'd say without Kobe that team wins 30-35. Without Wade the Heat win 10-15.

 

[BGSRCGUY]

For argument sake, here was Gasol's team 22-60 in 06-07, in comparison to this years laker roster without kobe. Is the lakers roster that much better to win 50+ games? I think not.

No. Player Pos
3 Chucky Atkins G
35 Brian Cardinal F
5 Will Conroy G
16 Pau Gasol F
22 Rudy Gay F
10 Junior Harrington G
32 Alexander Johnson F
30 Dahntay Jones G
6 Eddie Jones G-F
7 Tarence Kinsey G
1 Kyle Lowry G
33 Mike Miller F
34 Scott Padgett F
44 Lawrence Roberts F
20 Damon Stoudamire G
4 Stromile Swift F
12 Jake Tsakalidis C
21 Hakim Warrick F

No. Player Pos
3 Trevor Ariza F
12 Shannon Brown G
17 Andrew Bynum C
5 Jordan Farmar G
2 Derek Fisher G
16 Pau Gasol F
28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C
31 Chris Mihm C
6 Adam Morrison F
7 Lamar Odom F
21 Josh Powell F
10 Vladimir Radmanovic F
18 Sasha Vujacic G
4 Luke Walton F
9 Sun Yue G

While I don't think the Lakers win 50 without Kobe, I do think the rest of the team is significantly better than the grizzlies team. Remember that at the time some of the decent names on the Grizz were rookies or hadn't done anything in the league yet (Gay and Warrick). I'd say without Kobe that team wins 30-35. Without Wade the Heat win 10-15.

At least we agree not a 3-4 seed. I don't disagree, I think somewhere in the 20-30 range, depending on how much Bynum played. If he is healthy towards the top, if hes out they are no better than the clippers in the west, maybe even worse.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

For argument sake, here was Gasol's team 22-60 in 06-07, in comparison to this years laker roster without kobe. Is the lakers roster that much better to win 50+ games? I think not.

No. Player Pos
3 Chucky Atkins G
35 Brian Cardinal F
5 Will Conroy G
16 Pau Gasol F
22 Rudy Gay F
10 Junior Harrington G
32 Alexander Johnson F
30 Dahntay Jones G
6 Eddie Jones G-F
7 Tarence Kinsey G
1 Kyle Lowry G
33 Mike Miller F
34 Scott Padgett F
44 Lawrence Roberts F
20 Damon Stoudamire G
4 Stromile Swift F
12 Jake Tsakalidis C
21 Hakim Warrick F

No. Player Pos
3 Trevor Ariza F
12 Shannon Brown G
17 Andrew Bynum C
5 Jordan Farmar G
2 Derek Fisher G
16 Pau Gasol F
28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C
31 Chris Mihm C
6 Adam Morrison F
7 Lamar Odom F
21 Josh Powell F
10 Vladimir Radmanovic F
18 Sasha Vujacic G
4 Luke Walton F
9 Sun Yue G

While I don't think the Lakers win 50 without Kobe, I do think the rest of the team is significantly better than the grizzlies team. Remember that at the time some of the decent names on the Grizz were rookies or hadn't done anything in the league yet (Gay and Warrick). I'd say without Kobe that team wins 30-35. Without Wade the Heat win 10-15.

At least we agree not a 3-4 seed. I don't disagree, I think somewhere in the 20-30 range, depending on how much Bynum played. If he is healthy towards the top, if hes out they are no better than the clippers in the west, maybe even worse.

You underestimate how much of a negative affect mike dunleavey has on that team.

 

[mlbsalltimegreats]

Bottom Line Wade has been a better player than Kobe with less and that is why he got a vote over Kobe. Kobe no longer has the legs he once had or the legs Wade has and now has to pick his spots. That is not a bad thing because he is now a smarter basketball player. I firmly believe that if you took Wade off the Heat they would be #1 in the lottery and if you took Kobe off the Laker they would still be in the playoffs contending for the 3rd or 4th spot. I think People underestimate Coach Phil Jackson as he just knows how to bring the best out of his bench and Role guys. I can guarantee that if any other coach were coaching the Lakers they would not have won 60 games. Look at it like this, take the Heat coach (?) and switch with Lakers coach (Phil Jackson) and see the Heat have a much better record and the Lakers tettering on 60 win if not less. Or Take Mike Brown (Cavs Coach) and again Switch out with Lakers Coach (Phil Jackson) . No disrespect to the Heat coach or Mike Brown as both have done phenomenal Jobs with their teams but they are no Phil Jacksons. The reason I think the Lakers wouldnt be so bad without Kobe is because Odom gets held back because of Kobe and would play much better without him and thus the Lakers would not be that bad of a Team without Kobe. Is there a reason Odom is held back? Yes because because Kobe is a better player. Could the Lakers Contend for the title with Odom playing better and no Kobe? No they couldnt they need kobe to Contend. To me the Lakers with who they have now come out like the Mavs, High winning Record (55-60 wins) but dont go anywhere in the playoffs. Now I dont like Kobe but I respect the Fact that the Guy can flat out play and the Lakers Need him to get to the Finals and win playoff games but no matter how you look at it he has alot better players (and a Hof Coach) than Wade has. All this just makes my case that Wade doea better with less and is more valuable than Kobe.

You cannot really think if you took Kobe off of the Lakers in the west they would be the 3 or 4 seed can you? Do you really think a team of Gasol/Odom/Bynum(for half the year)/Fisher and whoever they put at sg would be 3 or 4? This is likely one of the craziest statment's I have ever heard. What did Gasol do in Memphis? Do you think he could carry a team? Do you really think he is not a better play because of Kobe? Before you say Gasol had nobody, he had a similar talent player in Rudy Gay=Lamar Odom. BTW, you seem to love Lamar Odom. Ask any Laker/Clipper/Heat fan what they think about Odom, so much talent and doesn't show up when it counts. SEE LAST YEARS NBA FINALS.

I would give 1000 to 1 odds, that the lakers would be out of the playoffs or the 8 seed at best without kobe.

I'd love to hear more reasoning, I understand you don't like Kobe, but that is like me saying the Celtics should be a 8 seed, just because I don't like them.

First off you would be a very poor man if you were to take those 1000 to 1 odds and the part about the being the 8 seed because you dont like them is :?. What does that have to do with anything. I am accually giving you Lakers a lot of praise that they would be able to hold the fort down if Kobe had to be out. Like I said people underestimate coach Phil Jackson and Rudy gay does not = Odom. Odom is a much more seasoned/ better player. With Gasol saying that he had as good of player as he does now is debatable but what is not debatable is the difference in a winning attitude that you have between the Laker and the Grizzles. The lakers history is all about winning and Gasol coming over to LA made a huge difference in his moral and state of mind that has made him a much better player than he was in Memphis. You saying the Lakers would be out of the playoff is pretty funny in its self. Yes they would be in the 3rd and 4th seed because guy like Bynum/Odom/Gasol would put up the slack. Just like when Odom has his chances you would see him really pick up his game. You forget that Kobe was (I'm still not sure that he is) not a fan of the triangle offense. The offense can be ran thru almost anyone. That and the fact that most of the laker team now has some experience tells you this team would do much better than you think. See the difference between Kobe and Wade is Kobe has helped set a good foundation in LA and if Kobe were to go down for the whole season The triangle offense would not allow for the whole team to collapse but would still be able to hold firm. That's the beauty of Phil's offense is that you can be out for months at a time and come back and be thrown into the triangle offense with out much if any disruption. Bynum has been a very good example of this as he has literally picked up where he left off. Now with Wade he is the whole foundation!! There is no set system on the heat as almost everything they do goes thru D-Wade. So if D-wade goes down for the year so does the whole team and they completely collapse and work on whom they are going to pick #1. I guess it's just a matter of opinion. The only real way to find out is if Kobe get a season ending injury and the Lakers have to play next season without him in the line-up and im sure as a Laker fan that would be something you would rather not see.

Ill go step by step:
First, I used that example to show you how ludicrous your statement is, no way do I believe the celtics are the 8th best team in the east. Wade's statistical numbers are slightly better than Kobe's. I understand this, I also understand Kobe doesn't score or Rebound as much because he doesn't have too.

As for the odds, I surely would not make that statement, If did not believe I would win. The Lakers with that team would not even be in the top 3-4 in the east, and the east has 3 good teams.

You keep saying Odom is held back, that is untrue. Odom is inconsistent, always has been always will be. From his days of smoking pot, to not showing up i big games, its just who he is.

You say Bynum/Odom would pick up the slack, again I question how much Laker basketball you watch? Bynum has played 85 games in the last two seasons, so maybe he could pick up the slack for 30-50 games before getting sidelined.

Phil Jackson is a good coach, but he isn't underrated by anymeans. He has always had good players, and usually 2 of them at that.

You keep saying if you take D-Wade off the team the team collapses. That is subjective. I'd say they would win around 20 games, I believe the Lakers in the West win 25 games without Kobe, yes 25. However, I never brought the argument of removing players you did. I only brought up the argument of swapping players. If the mvp was simply who did the most for their team and carried them the most, Allen Iverson would've been MVP every year for multiple seasons. Thats not what the MVP is about.


For argument sake, here was Gasol's team 22-60 in 06-07, in comparison to this years laker roster without kobe. Is the lakers roster that much better to win 50+ games? I think not.

No. Player Pos
3 Chucky Atkins G
35 Brian Cardinal F
5 Will Conroy G
16 Pau Gasol F
22 Rudy Gay F
10 Junior Harrington G
32 Alexander Johnson F
30 Dahntay Jones G
6 Eddie Jones G-F
7 Tarence Kinsey G
1 Kyle Lowry G
33 Mike Miller F
34 Scott Padgett F
44 Lawrence Roberts F
20 Damon Stoudamire G
4 Stromile Swift F
12 Jake Tsakalidis C
21 Hakim Warrick F

No. Player Pos
3 Trevor Ariza F
12 Shannon Brown G
17 Andrew Bynum C
5 Jordan Farmar G
2 Derek Fisher G
16 Pau Gasol F
28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C
31 Chris Mihm C
6 Adam Morrison F
7 Lamar Odom F
21 Josh Powell F
10 Vladimir Radmanovic F
18 Sasha Vujacic G
4 Luke Walton F
9 Sun Yue G

Good stuff Prospectors but that does not account for the Winning attitude that the Laker Franchise has to that Of the Grizzlies. Trust me when I say your game gets much more refined when you have a winning Franchise. The best I can compare is a Job. If you work for a company that wants to expand and just has an attitude that they are going to be the best and do everything they can to make the employees happy you are going to perform at your best. To where you have another company that is just trying to survive, you are going to have more employees content with what they have or are doing and perform just enough to get by so the company doesnt close down. You see the diffrence. Now even if Kobe were to be out for the season the Lakers are going to still strive to win and still keep a good attitude towards their players because that's what being a Laker is all about. That was instilled even before Showtime lakers with Jerry West and company. I think our biggest difference is with Lamar Odom. Yes I think he is held back but with good reason, Because Kobe is a better player. In order for Odom to be fully effective he has to have the ball alot more and you are not going to take possesions away from Kobe? You see it anytime Kobe sits out for long periods of time or when they play thru Odom (Which is rare but did it when they played Boston) or when Kobe was Injured (Again not much this year) but the Guy puts up Pretty good numbers (24pt 18rbs, 28pt 13rbs). Those are just examples of better games and he is not going to put up those numbers every games but he is good enough to survive with if he is one of the focal points of the offense. Will Odom take you deep in the playoffs? No he is not but he is good enough to keep a team from going under when given the opportunity and keep a decent record. You have to realize that when I say the Lakers would be a Playoff team and in the 3rd or 4th seed in the confrence with out kobe I am not basing it stricly on Odoms shoulders but as a team as a whole. We can say that it is just a matter of circumstance in that Wade has to do more than Kobe because he has less and so it looks like Wade is better but pretty soon Guys like Wade and Lebron are going to be better because they just are better. Kobe is not getting any younger and you can see it in his legs alot more than before. I am going thru that with KG. I dont really want to admit that we have seen the best from Kg but it just may be the reality. You can have it from Here Prospectors as this has been a good chat. It's playoff time now .