Curtis Granderson and the MVP award

[Tomlinson21RB]

I try to look at the MVP for what the award is supposed to represent. The player who is most valuable to their team. I have a really hard time picking an MVP from the Yankees or Red Sox because if you pull Granderson or A-Gon off those teams they will still be very good if not great.

Thats why I would have to go with Bautista right now. Not trying to take away anything from A-Gon or Granderson they have both been very good, but I don't think their teams performance would drop off much without them.

How many MVP awards have gone to a player on the 4th best team in a division. I understand the "value" argument, but how much value does a player have if his team is floating around .500?

 

[hail2thevictors]

I say Miguel Cabrera will kill September and win it.

Recent history shows Cabrera takes the last week of the September off.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My recently history shows Miguel being one of the best hitters of his generation. I think everyone is entitled to a bad week. And lets just be clear-Miguel isn't the only guy drinking.

But, don't let me get in the way of the nonsense you are spewing.

 

[All The Hype]

I try to look at the MVP for what the award is supposed to represent. The player who is most valuable to their team. I have a really hard time picking an MVP from the Yankees or Red Sox because if you pull Granderson or A-Gon off those teams they will still be very good if not great.

Thats why I would have to go with Bautista right now. Not trying to take away anything from A-Gon or Granderson they have both been very good, but I don't think their teams performance would drop off much without them.

How many MVP awards have gone to a player on the 4th best team in a division. I understand the "value" argument, but how much value does a player have if his team is floating around .500?

I hate to say it because I think pitchers should be restricted to the Cy Young, but this is another reason why Verlander actually makes some sense for MVP.

 

[BrewerSuperCollector]

I say Miguel Cabrera will kill September and win it.

Recent history shows Cabrera takes the last week of the September off.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My recently history shows Miguel being one of the best hitters of his generation. I think everyone is entitled to a bad week. And lets just be clear-Miguel isn't the only guy drinking.

But, don't let me get in the way of the nonsense you are spewing.

The drinking episode was 2 years ago. He may not be the only player drinking, but there is a difference between a couple of glasses and a couple of bottles. Last year he hurt his ankle and missed the last week of the season again.

You get so defensive. Yes, he is one of the best hitters of his generation and yeas he has missed the last week of the season the last 2 years.

 

[RiceLynnEvans75]

I try to look at the MVP for what the award is supposed to represent. The player who is most valuable to their team. I have a really hard time picking an MVP from the Yankees or Red Sox because if you pull Granderson or A-Gon off those teams they will still be very good if not great.

Thats why I would have to go with Bautista right now. Not trying to take away anything from A-Gon or Granderson they have both been very good, but I don't think their teams performance would drop off much without them.

I see what you're saying but the only issue I see with your argument is applying the same logic to Bautista that you applied to Granderson or Gonzalez. Take Bautista off the Jays, and you still have a sub-par team. True, they would have less wins but it doesn't matter because they wouldn't have been in any kind of contention anyway.

 

[D-Lite]

Granderson and Gonzalez are both close in many aspects, but after batting average, the stat advantage is in Granderson's favor, even accounting for park effects.
Granderson: .275/.366/.584, 33 HR, 94 RBI, 22 SB (10 CS), 107 Runs, 18 2B, 9 3B, 60/126 BB/K
Gonzalez: .350/.411/.553, 18 HR, 92 RBI, 1 SB (0 CS), 79 Runs, 36 2B, 3 3B, 47/81 BB/K

The higher ave pushes up the OBP for AGon, but Granderson has the gaudier power numbers and even more walks. And the runs and SB advantage will definitely help, plus playing a premium defensive position (not that Gonzalez sucks a first, but you have to give a nod to a CF with historically (noted due to the fluctuation is defensive metrics) good numbers).

Regarding defense, gotta say I love watching Bautista in the field. I'm always surprised by the plays he's able to make.

 

[scotty21690]

Granderson and Gonzalez are both close in many aspects, but after batting average, the stat advantage is in Granderson's favor, even accounting for park effects.
Granderson: .275/.366/.584, 33 HR, 94 RBI, 22 SB (10 CS), 107 Runs, 18 2B, 9 3B, 60/126 BB/K
Gonzalez: .350/.411/.553, 18 HR, 92 RBI, 1 SB (0 CS), 79 Runs, 36 2B, 3 3B, 47/81 BB/K

The higher ave pushes up the OBP for AGon, but Granderson has the gaudier power numbers and even more walks. And the runs and SB advantage will definitely help, plus playing a premium defensive position (not that Gonzalez sucks a first, but you have to give a nod to a CF with historically (noted due to the fluctuation is defensive metrics) good numbers).

Regarding defense, gotta say I love watching Bautista in the field. I'm always surprised by the plays he's able to make.

Uh, what? Granderson gets the advantage because he has played well below average defense this season at a premium position......because he has been a good fielder in the past? Am I reading this right :?:

I am quite sure MVP awards do not take past stats into consideration....


Not to mention only three AL players have EVER won the MVP award with a BA under .275, no way Granderson wins it.

 

[outofluckandmoney]

While I don't care one way or the other, if any modern voter is really even paying attention to Batting Average when making his MVP choices he should have his voting privileges revoked. And besides, all the voters really care about in most seasons is an even more worthless statistic, RBIzzzzzz.

did you seriously just call batting average a worthless statistic?

 

[fkw]

Granderson :benson: ::facepalm::

:? Bautista =
only player in all of the Major Leagues (not just the far weaker AL) with a .600+ Slug%, a 1.000+ OPS, and he also leads MLB in Walks, HRs, OnBase%, HR%, etc. etc. ...........oh, and he should have won the #@%& thing last year as well..... a few makeup votes IMO

funny your wrote "mantle"..... Granderson has some Mantle in him as well.... he has 54 more strikeouts than Jose so far this year...

 

[scotty21690]

When it all comes down to it, all stats are related to "hits". Therefore I believe someone who gets a hit in 35% of his at bats is more worthy of an MVP over someone who gets a hit in only 27% of his at bats.


The argument of Granderson over Gonzalez is exactly like last year with Bautista and Hamilton. Guess who won it that year?

 

[scotty21690]

Granderson :benson: ::facepalm::

:? Bautista =
only player in all of the Major Leagues (not just the far weaker AL) with a .600+ Slug%, a 1.000+ OPS, and he also leads MLB in Walks, HRs, OnBase%, HR%, etc. etc. ...........oh, and he should have won the #@%& thing last year as well..... a few makeup votes IMO

funny your wrote "mantle"..... Granderson has some Mantle in him as well.... he has 54 more strikeouts than Jose so far this year...

I disagree.

Hamilton had a BA of .100 pts higher, higher OBP, OPS, OPS+, and his team finished first in their division. Not to mention Bautistas poor defense did not help him any....

 

[D-Lite]

Granderson and Gonzalez are both close in many aspects, but after batting average, the stat advantage is in Granderson's favor, even accounting for park effects.
Granderson: .275/.366/.584, 33 HR, 94 RBI, 22 SB (10 CS), 107 Runs, 18 2B, 9 3B, 60/126 BB/K
Gonzalez: .350/.411/.553, 18 HR, 92 RBI, 1 SB (0 CS), 79 Runs, 36 2B, 3 3B, 47/81 BB/K

The higher ave pushes up the OBP for AGon, but Granderson has the gaudier power numbers and even more walks. And the runs and SB advantage will definitely help, plus playing a premium defensive position (not that Gonzalez sucks a first, but you have to give a nod to a CF with historically (noted due to the fluctuation is defensive metrics) good numbers).

Regarding defense, gotta say I love watching Bautista in the field. I'm always surprised by the plays he's able to make.

Uh, what? Granderson gets the advantage because he has played well below average defense this season at a premium position......because he has been a good fielder in the past? Am I reading this right :?:

I am quite sure MVP awards do not take past stats into consideration....

Not to mention only three AL players have EVER won the MVP award with a BA under .275, no way Granderson wins it.

Not saying to take past stats into consideration. My point is that Granderson has been a solid defender and people will view him as that, regardless of UZR telling you he stinks this season. Plenty of players have wild swings in defense metrics from year to year and I'm pretty sure MVP voters don't care so much about that.

When it all comes down to it, all stats are related to "hits". Therefore I believe someone who gets a hit in 35% of his at bats is more worthy of an MVP over someone who gets a hit in only 27% of his at bats.

The argument of Granderson over Gonzalez is exactly like last year with Bautista and Hamilton. Guess who won it that year?

Sure, it's great to get more hits. Ask Ichiro how he felt when he hit .372 and finished 7th in balloting behind a guy that hit .290, five others that hit with lower averages, and a pitcher.

We can all cherry-pick the stats, see?

 

[jcmint]

Is anyone taking speed into the equation. Grandy has been a beast on the base paths. I watch every game and I am very critical of my team with that being said his defense has not been bad at all. I still think A-gone is the front runner but grandy has a legit shot at 40/40 if he gets his avg. up to .290 and gets to 40/40 it would be tough not to vote for him. He might go 40/40 and lead the league in runs. Thats gotta be historic. Take grandy off the Yanks they might be the Blue Jays.

 

[AndruwHRJones]

Sure, it's great to get more hits. Ask Ichiro how he felt when he hit .372 and finished 7th in balloting behind a guy that hit .290, five others that hit with lower averages, and a pitcher.

We can all cherry-pick the stats, see?

NOONE is saying avg. is THE ONLY stat to look at. As for your Ichiro example, it is quite pathetic.

He finished 7th in the MVP race that year because 5 other hitters each hit over 34 HR's, over 121 RBI's, and all batted over .300 with the exception of 1.

While Ichiro hit .372 that year, his other stats were nowhere near comparable to the other 5 hitters who finished ahead of him.

 

[djrulz]

Granderson has Gardner catching balls that he would normally get to with an average left fielder. Does that count against him in defensive metrics?

 

[MOFNY]

While I don't care one way or the other, if any modern voter is really even paying attention to Batting Average when making his MVP choices he should have his voting privileges revoked. And besides, all the voters really care about in most seasons is an even more worthless statistic, RBIzzzzzz.

did you seriously just call batting average a worthless statistic?

A nearly worthless statistic, yes.

 

[thefasterblade]

Granderson is on pace for 149 runs that would put him tied for 43rd on the all time list for a single season. The only other modern player to record that many runs is Jeff Bagwell in 2000 when he had 152 runs. Everyone else on the list is from the 1800s or pre-1940s.

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp?c ... er+hitting

 

[fengzhang]

I'd much rather have a player who scores 120 runs because he maintained a .450 OBP than a player who scores 130 runs with a .360 OBP because he plays in a powerful offensive lineup.

I'd much rather have a player who has 90 RBI because he bats .350+ with RISP than a player who has 90 RBI batting .250 with RISP.

 

[Mudcatsfan]

Granderson is on pace for 149 runs that would put him tied for 43rd on the all time list for a single season. The only other modern player to record that many runs is Jeff Bagwell in 2000 when he had 152 runs. Everyone else on the list is from the 1800s or pre-1940s.

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.jsp?c ... er+hitting

Very interesting, i had no idea people scored like that back then........

All this being said, i DO think Granderson has a chance at the MVP this year, and with the way he's taken to Yankee Stadium, he's going to end up with some pretty sick career numbers.

For those who want to take away from his production because of the stadium, its not like Swisher is doing the same thing.

 

[vwnut13]

All this being said, i DO think Granderson has a chance at the MVP this year, and with the way he's retooled his swing, he's going to end up with some pretty sick career numbers, especially since he mashes lefties as well now.

For those who want to take away from his production because of the stadium.....they should look at his splits.

Fixed.