Curtis Granderson and the MVP award

[thefasterblade]

Curtis is going to win it. Brace yourselves, doubters.

 

[RL24]

I've been watching his BA creep up, but that 0-3 yesterday hurt.


And... embrace themselves? What do you mean? Maybe... brace themselves? Or you want them to give themselves a hug or something? Accept themselves for what they are? I'm totally lost...

:lol:

 

[vwnut13]

I've been watching his BA creep up, but that 0-3 yesterday hurt.


And... embrace themselves? What do you mean? Maybe... brace themselves? Or you want them to give themselves a hug or something? Accept themselves for what they are? I'm totally lost...

:lol:

The thing with Curtis is that he is a patient hitter thatswings and misses at strikes a little too much.

Curtis has seen the most pitches all season. He has a very good eye. Last night Curtis was "caught looking" on ball three. That didnt help.

 

[elmalo]

It should be an interesting race.

 

[wolfmanalfredo]

On pace for 149 Runs, 45 Home Runs, 132 RBI and 31 SBs.

I understand he doesn't have an insane average, but this isn't Carlos Pena here. A .275 average is very respectable.

The AL MVP has only gone to a player who hit under .300 (14) times if my count was correct since 1911.

Additionally, only 4 players have had an avg under .283 and won the AL award. Two of the four were HOF's (Killabrew and Berra) and another was Maris and his 61 HR's.

I didn't bother looking at the NL MVP award winners, but the evidence seems pretty clear to me that unless his other stats are ridiculously overwhelming, his batting average is going to have to come up very significantly if he stands a chance to win.

Its Killebrew, not Killabrew.

He's a yankee, so just give it to him

 

[RL24]

well, it's fun to kill-a-brew. However, if you kill ebrews, you will be hated for all eternity.


So I see where AndruwHRJones was coming from with his spelling error. Maybe it wasn't an accident.

 

[D-Lite]

The "something is up" is that those are three of the best players in baseball. No mystery there.

Unless Granderson is stealing home at an alarming rate his teammates are driving him in. Granderson is a top candidate, but is 5th out of the 5 discussed in the past few posts by all measures of individual effectiveness. RBI and Runs scored are no better a measure of a hitter's performance than Wins and Losses are of a pitcher's.

Why is it that Granderson has driven in more runs than Gonzalez?

Gardner's OBP is 0.357 and Jeter's is 0.350.
Ellsbury's OBP is 0.370 and Pedroia's is 0.399.

It would seem that Gonzalez has more opportunities to drive in runs considering the players in front of him get on more often. And let's not forget that Granderson has driven in more runs with a .059 disadvantage in batting average.

With two of the top 4 MVP candidates behind Ellsbury why hasnt he scored a ton more runs?

You actually make the point for Gonzalez here, not Granderson. If you dig a little deeper into the actual stats, you will notice this:

With runners in scoring position:

Granderson = 128 at bats, .250 avg, 57 RBI
Gonzalez = 148 at bats, .345 avg, 70 RBI

So while Gonzalez has had more at bats, he is taking advantage of the opportunities probably as best as you can ask a player to do with a .345 avg. While Granderson is batting .250. So instead of asking why Granderson has more RBI's than Gonzalez, you should be asking yourself why Granderson doesn't have more than he has?

As for Ellsbury, he has scored 89 runs, 3rd best in the majors this year. While Granderson has a decent amount more, not sure how being 3rd in the majors is a negative?

Ah, sure, with runners in scoring position he's got an edge, but how about ANY runners on base (not including solo HR)?
Granderson: 304 runners on any base(s), 227 AB, 78 RBI = 25.7% of runners driven in
Gonzalez: 355 runners on any base(s), 262 AB, 83 RBI = 23.4% of runners driven in

It's probably better to drive in any runner, not just in scoring position, yes/no? Or should we just continue with the selection bias in evaluating the players?

 

[AndruwHRJones]

The "something is up" is that those are three of the best players in baseball. No mystery there.

Unless Granderson is stealing home at an alarming rate his teammates are driving him in. Granderson is a top candidate, but is 5th out of the 5 discussed in the past few posts by all measures of individual effectiveness. RBI and Runs scored are no better a measure of a hitter's performance than Wins and Losses are of a pitcher's.

Why is it that Granderson has driven in more runs than Gonzalez?

Gardner's OBP is 0.357 and Jeter's is 0.350.
Ellsbury's OBP is 0.370 and Pedroia's is 0.399.

It would seem that Gonzalez has more opportunities to drive in runs considering the players in front of him get on more often. And let's not forget that Granderson has driven in more runs with a .059 disadvantage in batting average.

With two of the top 4 MVP candidates behind Ellsbury why hasnt he scored a ton more runs?

You actually make the point for Gonzalez here, not Granderson. If you dig a little deeper into the actual stats, you will notice this:

With runners in scoring position:

Granderson = 128 at bats, .250 avg, 57 RBI
Gonzalez = 148 at bats, .345 avg, 70 RBI

So while Gonzalez has had more at bats, he is taking advantage of the opportunities probably as best as you can ask a player to do with a .345 avg. While Granderson is batting .250. So instead of asking why Granderson has more RBI's than Gonzalez, you should be asking yourself why Granderson doesn't have more than he has?

As for Ellsbury, he has scored 89 runs, 3rd best in the majors this year. While Granderson has a decent amount more, not sure how being 3rd in the majors is a negative?

Ah, sure, with runners in scoring position he's got an edge, but how about ANY runners on base (not including solo HR)?
Granderson: 304 runners on any base(s), 227 AB, 78 RBI = 25.7% of runners driven in
Gonzalez: 355 runners on any base(s), 262 AB, 83 RBI = 23.4% of runners driven in

It's probably better to drive in any runner, not just in scoring position, yes/no? Or should we just continue with the selection bias in evaluating the players?

Apparently you can't read, I was NOT being the one with selective bias in this case. The person with selective bias was vwnut13 as he suggested Gonzalez should have more RBI's because the players in front of him got on base more often. I showed that was not necessarily the case.

But since you are talking about selective stats. A look closer at your stats you presented will show this:

With runners on any base:

Granderson: .264 avg
Gonzalez: .364 avg

So Adrian is hitting 100 points higher with runners on any base and he only has 5 more RBI. Unless someone has an unreal expectation that Adrian should be batting closer to .400 with runners on base, I don't see how it is possible that he could have driven in many more runs this season. Granderson on the other hand clearly should have more RBI if his average were a little higher.

As a side note, Adrian has been intentionally walked 14 times compared to Granderson's ZERO. Also Adrian has batted in the 3 hole almost all year and likely doesn't see anywhere near the number of fastballs or hittable pitches as Granderson does in the 2 spot.

Either way, I think both are candidates for the MVP. I have said it already, I think if Granderson can get his avg into the mid .280's, he has a shot. If not, I think his chances are very slim.

 

[AndruwHRJones]

On pace for 149 Runs, 45 Home Runs, 132 RBI and 31 SBs.

I understand he doesn't have an insane average, but this isn't Carlos Pena here. A .275 average is very respectable.

The AL MVP has only gone to a player who hit under .300 (14) times if my count was correct since 1911.

Additionally, only 4 players have had an avg under .283 and won the AL award. Two of the four were HOF's (Killabrew and Berra) and another was Maris and his 61 HR's.

I didn't bother looking at the NL MVP award winners, but the evidence seems pretty clear to me that unless his other stats are ridiculously overwhelming, his batting average is going to have to come up very significantly if he stands a chance to win.

Its Killebrew, not Killabrew.

He's a yankee, so just give it to him

Better late than never, glad the spelling police showed up 12 days later. Not sure I could have lived without knowing I spelled a name incorrectly.