cutting a card to make a card!

[Mr.Whipple]

Interesting topic.

Please keep in mind that there is no excuse for anyone who is alive to have a cut auto.

DING DING!!!!

Only problem with that is budget. Cut may be the only way to get if they can't afford to sign the player or pay to have them to sign x amount of cards. Cuts may be their only route.

I would have to say it should be done right or not at all.

Harrison Ford has stated he WOULD NOT sign trading cards anymore.
I offered him $400 per signature !!!!!!
If he refuses, should he NEVER have anothr auto card?

Or, what about Neil Armstrong who is alive but wouldnt sign for $2500 per signature!...

I think many collectors would rather have a cut as a chase then do whithout.

Then what?
BG

I said pretty much that in my post. If it is the only way to offer a cut auto of someone. Do it, Cant blame you for trying to secure auto's for a non cut product. But, If the only way is to do a cut product. Go ahead and do it... People do not complain like this over cutting up historical memorbilia like ruth jersey's for cards. but have an issue with someone cutting up another companies card? They just all seem to have an issue with you and the product you offer. Myself am not a prospect product collector and do not purchase wax that has it.. But the group on this forum for the majority has a bad taste for your product.. To much time spent on BMb over the years, Getting pumped with Bowman being the only company to produce prospect/ rookie autos..

 

[dadofandrew]

Not when they look like this

 

[allstars]

Not when they look like this

ugh thats pretty terrible...

 

[HPC]

Yet, People dont have an issue with card companies. Cutting up jersey's and bats of huge historical value to the game. To make cards?..But have an issue with a card company using other companies cards to produce cut autos.. I am sure the Razor guy knows, People are just bashing him and that seems it..

Very true indeed!

 

[sportscardtheory]

I have never spent one red cent on a cut signature cut from another card and I never will. It's just absolutely ludicrous and borderline retarded. Sometimes I actually picture the person cutting the card and if they think they are a moron for doing it.

 

[andyduke86]

I have never spent one red cent on a cut signature cut from another card and I never will. It's just absolutely ludicrous and borderline retarded. Sometimes I actually picture the person cutting the card and if they think they are a moron for doing it.

I'm not a fan of cuts, but there should never be a cut unless it is from an index card/blank piece of paper, or a check. Cutting up signed cards, photos, HOF postcards, etc. is just ridiculous to make a cut. The worst is when there are true cut signatures- where half the signature or a few letters are cut off. Why do people pay for that?? The sad part about it is that people actually pay a premium for a ****** looking cut with half the name cut off when they could buy the actual item (8x10, hof postcard, etc) at a significantly reduced price. Doesn't make any sense. With such stupid consumers, I really can't blame the card companies for making the cuts.

This is a great example-

For me personally the cut up card or photo just has no appeal and seems lazy. Why destroy something original. Would you cut the autograph out of the 1952 Topps Mantle auto you bought at the Natty to make a cut? Seems crazy doesnt it? If you wouldnt do it with a card like that then you shouldnt do it at all. Cut autos were awesome when they were just using plaine paper/index cards and checks. Now seeing cut up HOF plaque cards, photos, and cards in cards just seems to me like its getting a bit out of control and ruining the whole idea.



Ill take this all day long at $100

Over this ugly thing at $160

 

[Sean_C]

1). I think that cutting up existing cards to make cut cards in ugly at best, dumb at worst.
2). Making cut signature cards from existing "cuts" (index cards, autograph books, etc.) of living people that generally won't sign (Armstrong, etc.), is understandable to a certain degree. Cutting up 15 Cal Ripken Jr. cards because it's cheaper than getting him to sign 15 items, or getting making 10 cut signature cards of LeBron James because he has an exclusive contract with another company isn't though (and in the case of James might get you sued).
3). That degree mentioned above is if the person doesn't want to appear on cards. If Harrison Ford has stated that doesn't want to have signed cards, what is so wrong with honoring his request, and not making cut cards of him? By making a cut signature card of a person that doesn't want to have any more signed cards, you are likely reinforcing the reasons that they don't want to have any more signed cards produced in the first place. Granted it's a free market, and the almighty dollar wins in the end, but to me it screams "my bottom line is more important than what you want", and speaks volumes about your character.

Interesting topic.

Please keep in mind that there is no excuse for anyone who is alive to have a cut auto.

DING DING!!!!

Only problem with that is budget. Cut may be the only way to get if they can't afford to sign the player or pay to have them to sign x amount of cards. Cuts may be their only route.

I would have to say it should be done right or not at all.

Harrison Ford has stated he WOULD NOT sign trading cards anymore.
I offered him $400 per signature !!!!!!
If he refuses, should he NEVER have anothr auto card?

Or, what about Neil Armstrong who is alive but wouldnt sign for $2500 per signature!...

I think many collectors would rather have a cut as a chase then do whithout.

Then what?
BG

 

[Razor]

1). I think that cutting up existing cards to make cut cards in ugly at best, dumb at worst.
2). Making cut signature cards from existing "cuts" (index cards, autograph books, etc.) of living people that generally won't sign (Armstrong, etc.), is understandable to a certain degree. Cutting up 15 Cal Ripken Jr. cards because it's cheaper than getting him to sign 15 items, or getting making 10 cut signature cards of LeBron James because he has an exclusive contract with another company isn't though (and in the case of James might get you sued).
3). That degree mentioned above is if the person doesn't want to appear on cards. If Harrison Ford has stated that doesn't want to have signed cards, what is so wrong with honoring his request, and not making cut cards of him? By making a cut signature card of a person that doesn't want to have any more signed cards, you are likely reinforcing the reasons that they don't want to have any more signed cards produced in the first place. Granted it's a free market, and the almighty dollar wins in the end, but to me it screams "my bottom line is more important than what you want", and speaks volumes about your character.

Rumor is that Topps is doing #2 above in the Pro Debut product (not Lebron though).
so, still think it's inexcusable?

BG

p.s.- Im not sure Barack Obama, Elvis, Abner Doubleday or George Washington's family would prefer they have cut signatures, therefore should companies not do it? If companies TRY to sign the guys, they can take the money or not. At least we are trying to pay them!...

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

To me, everything depends on exactly what is being cut up.

Personally, I won't cut up a vintage Topps signed card for use to build a custom card for someone, but I have no problem chopping up mass-produced nickel TCMA card of the same player.

Same could be said with me and books. I had someone request a custom and when I received the cut, it was a complete signed first edition book with a pristine signature in tact. No personalization, nothing. I returned the book because I refused to cut it out of the book.

Some of you may remember a Enos Slaughter custom I did for a member. The signed card was an Upper Deck B.A.T. card that looked like this...

The custom then looked like this...

To me (completely biased), it is an improved version...but to others, I ruined an IP signed 50 cent card.

So again, for me, if it's done right...it's no problem. But if it's done poorly (like almost all Tristar cuts), it's a fiasco.

 

[steve-a-reno]

[quote="steve-a-reno":urizfkvg]

[quote="steve-a-reno":urizfkvg]As others have said, I think it looks unprofessional. Especially using other company's cards. It gives me the impression that designers, etc. just took the lazy and easy way out. I also have a problem with it destroying previously issued cards. Granted most cards used for this purpose aren't great, however look at all the beautiful Joe Dimaggio pinnacle autos that have been destroyed over the years. It makes me sick to my stomach. I've even seen don. sig. century /100 autos cut up into cards. Those can be highly sought after and I think it slights collectors looking for those rare cards.

but what if those /100 are extras. If they put the original (replacement cards out), it wouldn't be /100 anymore. Look what happened to fleer cards after their bankruptcy.

You can play what if all day long (but I understand your point)........the fleer bankrupcy adds a new dimension, and a whole new ball of wax, that I don't believe the op was referring to.

Lets please not discuss the fleer bankrupcy, as I don't think I can handle it after what happened to me. ::facepalm::

There is no what if's. where do you think these buybacks come from.... actual dealers? secondary market? Already had issues years ago when multiple 1/1's were discovered on the market. There's enough stuff slipping into the market to openingly release them.

Yes there are, you said so yourself. I gave my opinion like everyone else, and that's it. You obviously disagree and want to make these other what ifs and other points over and over, which I said can be valid. You appear to be the only one really arguing for them, and that's fine its your opinion. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to argue with you over it.[/quote:urizfkvg]

I collect unreleased cards. Some are not what ifs. And I got a lot of my information from former card company execs, product managers, and employees. I guarentee you if a person spends $500 for a /25 auto, then 50-100 more show up on the market, they will cry foul as the value obviously decreases (since people "invest" in cards). Ok... here is a what if. What if Razor just sell those extras instead of cutting them up (no matter if the previous ones were limited to a certain number or not). I wonder how many people would be fine with that?[/quote:urizfkvg]

If I knew what any of that has to do with any of my comments I would respond... ::facepalm::

 

[Sean_C]

1). If you are referring to the Cut AFLAC Tim Beckham that they are supposedly putting out, I'd certainly have preferred them to be able to release the whole card rather than cutting it up, but it looks like they weren't able to do that.
2). That is a bit of a different situation than going out and buying a bunch of LeBron James (or Kobe Bryant, take your pick) in person "cuts", and making cut signature cards. In this case, they had already made the cards and had him sign them with the intention of releasing them at some point in the future. I'm guessing that they aren't able to due to your contract with him, so they've resorted to a pretty dumb plan B. I'd have preferred that they wait a few years, then release the whole card as an insert in some other product, but that's just my opinion.
3). If they are doing it with someone else that I'm not aware of (IE, buying cuts of Wieters or someone like that), then yeah, that's pretty sad.
4). Creating this thread, then steering it towards what Topps is doing (at least twice by my count) is pretty craven if you ask me.
5). Your "PS" again indicates that you are either willfully missing the point, or hopelessly married to your idea. You can do whatever you want with a cut signature. Frame it with a picture, incorporate it into a collage, make it into a card, create origami with it, it's yours to do with as you will as long as the person or the person's estate doesn't object. In this case though, if Harrison Ford has specifically stated that he doesn't want to appear on autograph cards any longer, then what is so wrong with honoring his wishes?

1). I think that cutting up existing cards to make cut cards in ugly at best, dumb at worst.
2). Making cut signature cards from existing "cuts" (index cards, autograph books, etc.) of living people that generally won't sign (Armstrong, etc.), is understandable to a certain degree. Cutting up 15 Cal Ripken Jr. cards because it's cheaper than getting him to sign 15 items, or getting making 10 cut signature cards of LeBron James because he has an exclusive contract with another company isn't though (and in the case of James might get you sued).
3). That degree mentioned above is if the person doesn't want to appear on cards. If Harrison Ford has stated that doesn't want to have signed cards, what is so wrong with honoring his request, and not making cut cards of him? By making a cut signature card of a person that doesn't want to have any more signed cards, you are likely reinforcing the reasons that they don't want to have any more signed cards produced in the first place. Granted it's a free market, and the almighty dollar wins in the end, but to me it screams "my bottom line is more important than what you want", and speaks volumes about your character.

Rumor is that Topps is doing #2 above in the Pro Debut product (not Lebron though).
so, still think it's inexcusable?

BG

p.s.- Im not sure Barack Obama, Elvis, Abner Doubleday or George Washington's family would prefer they have cut signatures, therefore should companies not do it? If companies TRY to sign the guys, they can take the money or not. At least we are trying to pay them!...

 

[Razor]

1). If you are referring to the Cut AFLAC Tim Beckham that they are supposedly putting out, I'd certainly have preferred them to be able to release the whole card rather than cutting it up, but it looks like they weren't able to do that.
2). That is a bit of a different situation than going out and buying a bunch of LeBron James (or Kobe Bryant, take your pick) in person "cuts", and making cut signature cards. In this case, they had already made the cards and had him sign them with the intention of releasing them at some point in the future. I'm guessing that they aren't able to due to your contract with him, so they've resorted to a pretty dumb plan B I'd have preferred that they wait a few years, then release the whole card as an insert in some other product, but that's just my opinion.

Finally we agree!!!!!! This card should be kept in tact and placed in 2011 Bowman Draft. It would be worth MUCH more then than it will be in a minor league product.

My question's focus was does the situation matter or is cutting cards to make cards a collecting sin?

Thanks for the intelligent post Sean!..
BG

p.s.- I wouldn't assume that the autographs were obtained without violating my agreements. If they were truly signed in 2007, I see no problems. HOWEVER, if they were signed later, that would NOT be a smart choice on their part. Regardless, we have launched a legal inquiry into this today, but cannot discuss this further at this time until all is clear.
BG

 

[sportscardtheory]

1). If you are referring to the Cut AFLAC Tim Beckham that they are supposedly putting out, I'd certainly have preferred them to be able to release the whole card rather than cutting it up, but it looks like they weren't able to do that.
2). That is a bit of a different situation than going out and buying a bunch of LeBron James (or Kobe Bryant, take your pick) in person "cuts", and making cut signature cards. In this case, they had already made the cards and had him sign them with the intention of releasing them at some point in the future. I'm guessing that they aren't able to due to your contract with him, so they've resorted to a pretty dumb plan B I'd have preferred that they wait a few years, then release the whole card as an insert in some other product, but that's just my opinion.

Finally we agree!!!!!! This card should be kept in tact and placed in 2011 Bowman Draft. It would be worth MUCH more then than it will be in a minor league product.

My question's focus was does the situation matter or is cutting cards to make cards a collecting?

Thanks for the intelligent post Sean!..
BG

p.s.- I wouldn't assume that the autographs were obtained without violating my agreements. If they were truly signed in 2007, I see no problems. HOWEVER, if they were signed later, that would NOT be a smart choice on their part. Regardless, we have launched a legal inquiry into this today, but cannot discuss this further at this time until all is clear.
BG

I don't understand. Why do you care if other companies cut up cards for autographs when you do the exact same thing yourself.

 

[Razor]

1). If you are referring to the Cut AFLAC Tim Beckham that they are supposedly putting out, I'd certainly have preferred them to be able to release the whole card rather than cutting it up, but it looks like they weren't able to do that.
2). That is a bit of a different situation than going out and buying a bunch of LeBron James (or Kobe Bryant, take your pick) in person "cuts", and making cut signature cards. In this case, they had already made the cards and had him sign them with the intention of releasing them at some point in the future. I'm guessing that they aren't able to due to your contract with him, so they've resorted to a pretty dumb plan B I'd have preferred that they wait a few years, then release the whole card as an insert in some other product, but that's just my opinion.

Finally we agree!!!!!! This card should be kept in tact and placed in 2011 Bowman Draft. It would be worth MUCH more then than it will be in a minor league product.

My question's focus was does the situation matter or is cutting cards to make cards a collecting?

Thanks for the intelligent post Sean!..
BG

p.s.- I wouldn't assume that the autographs were obtained without violating my agreements. If they were truly signed in 2007, I see no problems. HOWEVER, if they were signed later, that would NOT be a smart choice on their part. Regardless, we have launched a legal inquiry into this today, but cannot discuss this further at this time until all is clear.
BG

I don't understand. Why do you care if other companies cut up cards when you do it yourself.

WE DO NOT cut up cards effective June 2009.
We did less than 25 cards total ever, but agree that it is not acceptable to community as a whole.

I don't care if people cut up cards, as long as they own them free and clear and did commit a crime or subject themself to civil action in the process.

BG

 

[sportscardtheory]

1). If you are referring to the Cut AFLAC Tim Beckham that they are supposedly putting out, I'd certainly have preferred them to be able to release the whole card rather than cutting it up, but it looks like they weren't able to do that.
2). That is a bit of a different situation than going out and buying a bunch of LeBron James (or Kobe Bryant, take your pick) in person "cuts", and making cut signature cards. In this case, they had already made the cards and had him sign them with the intention of releasing them at some point in the future. I'm guessing that they aren't able to due to your contract with him, so they've resorted to a pretty dumb plan B I'd have preferred that they wait a few years, then release the whole card as an insert in some other product, but that's just my opinion.

Finally we agree!!!!!! This card should be kept in tact and placed in 2011 Bowman Draft. It would be worth MUCH more then than it will be in a minor league product.

My question's focus was does the situation matter or is cutting cards to make cards a collecting?

Thanks for the intelligent post Sean!..
BG

p.s.- I wouldn't assume that the autographs were obtained without violating my agreements. If they were truly signed in 2007, I see no problems. HOWEVER, if they were signed later, that would NOT be a smart choice on their part. Regardless, we have launched a legal inquiry into this today, but cannot discuss this further at this time until all is clear.
BG

I don't understand. Why do you care if other companies cut up cards when you do it yourself.

WE DO NOT cut up cards effective June 2009.
We did less than 25 cards total ever, but agree that it is not acceptable to community as a whole.

I don't care if people cut up cards, as long as they own them free and clear and did commit a crime or subject themself to civil action in the process.

BG

Well, it's great that you stopped doing that. I do respect that you listen to collectors.

 

[notjomommasclint]

i dont mind cuts if they are done for players or celebrities that have passed on or are passed the age of signing cleanly. however making a cut of another companies card seems lazy and lacks creativity. plus lets be honest many of the cards that are being used can be secured by average collectors on the market. so why would i want to buy a card thats made up of another cut up card and a border? however if that is the way to produce a card that you may not be able to produce normally i would say use them vertically... mat the signature and run it up the left side of the card then use a nice action photo or classic pose on the right.

 

[Sean_C]

I'm not sure if it's amazing tunnel-vision or just a ridiculous attempt to remain on-point that allowed you to create that response, ignoring the other comments I had made. Or more correctly, it just went to prove my point, that you had no interest in the subject matter and were just trying to steer it towards what Topps was doing with the Beckham card.

Interesting way to announce a legal inquiry to the hobby. I knew that it would eventually come to this, I'm just surprised it took this long. Next time, cut the dog an pony show about soliciting opinions about cutting up cards. It insults us all.

1). If you are referring to the Cut AFLAC Tim Beckham that they are supposedly putting out, I'd certainly have preferred them to be able to release the whole card rather than cutting it up, but it looks like they weren't able to do that.
2). That is a bit of a different situation than going out and buying a bunch of LeBron James (or Kobe Bryant, take your pick) in person "cuts", and making cut signature cards. In this case, they had already made the cards and had him sign them with the intention of releasing them at some point in the future. I'm guessing that they aren't able to due to your contract with him, so they've resorted to a pretty dumb plan B I'd have preferred that they wait a few years, then release the whole card as an insert in some other product, but that's just my opinion.

Finally we agree!!!!!! This card should be kept in tact and placed in 2011 Bowman Draft. It would be worth MUCH more then than it will be in a minor league product.

My question's focus was does the situation matter or is cutting cards to make cards a collecting sin?

Thanks for the intelligent post Sean!..
BG

p.s.- I wouldn't assume that the autographs were obtained without violating my agreements. If they were truly signed in 2007, I see no problems. HOWEVER, if they were signed later, that would NOT be a smart choice on their part. Regardless, we have launched a legal inquiry into this today, but cannot discuss this further at this time until all is clear.
BG

 

[dooly]

I don't like it plain and simply because more often then not, it looks ugly. Sometimes it looks ok if the sig was against a solid coloured background (ie the example of the fleer card shown earlier). Also, if the player is still living, it makes it worse as they could have just gotten them to sign the card or a sticker (makes the company look lazy).

 

[Rickzcards]

Cutting up a auto'ed card to make another usually doesn't work out too well. It's not too bad if the card that was auto'ed had the auto straight on it, but usually the auto is at a angle and when cut up it doesn't fit well within the cut auto window. I think it might be a good idea to frame such a card, like A&G or T206's, and insert as a box topper rather than destroy a card just for the sake of the auto portion.

 

[jeff550]

1. its ugly as hell
2. its is like batking a cake then taking it apart and making it worse it makes no sense.
3. you are destroying a piece of history to make some dumb cut.
4. if you want to kake a card why destory something with historical importance
5. i would rather have the original card.

thats about it