David Ortiz sets record for hits by a DH

[sportscardtheory]

There is no better metric than number of hits. Juan Pierre is way better than albert pujols because Pujols only hit more than 200 hits once and Pierre did it multiple times. WRC should stand for who really cares.

Advanced statistics? Blasphemy!

Ichiro Suzuki is better than Barry Bonds because he has ten 200+ hit seasons and Bonds had none.

 

[MansGame]

Albert Belle should be in the HOF

 

[wolfmanalfredo]

Given that it's the only permanent position with 'hitter' in its title, the DH needs to be the best hitter in the league without question to get into the HOF.

Edgar was, at best, the third best hitter on his team... this alone should keep him out.

You could argue this, so I agree

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[MansGame]

You could argue this, so I agree

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+1

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Please use some sort of facts in your posts or I just can't take them too seriously.

His first full year, age 27 he had a WAR of 5.5 (12th overall in MLB), at 28 his 5.7 WAR was 13th overall, and 29 his 6.2 WAR was 8th in baseball.

Excuse me for thinking someone looking at the numbers would be honest with themselves and easily spot the obvious late-career bump over 'prime' seasons. Well, here are some facts for you:
Age/PA/2B/HR/RBI/Avg/OPS
27/572/27/11/49/.302/.830
28/642/35/14/52/.307/.857
35/672/46/29/102/.322/.9993
36/608/35/24/86/.337/1.001
37/665/31/37/145/.324/1.002

That shows significant increases at ages 35-37 over the beginning of 'prime' years. HRs more than doubled (without the tired story of doubles turning into HRs), driving OPS way up. And his avg was nearly 10% higher, that's also pretty significant.

But by all means, fall into the trap of depending too much on WAR to tell your story. And don't let facts get in the way of the pompousness and ignorance displyed by this post:

The difference is in opinion is between people who saw him play and those that didn't.

LOL!!

Yeah, kinda what I was thinking.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Pretty easy if you have a basic grasp of metrics like wRC+ (a slightly more sophisticated gauge of hitting productivity than total number of hits).

If you need context, read: wRC and wRC+ | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library. 120 is considered excellent. 100 is average. 150 is elite.

wRC+ is also park and league-adjusted, allowing one to to compare players who played in different years, parks, and leagues. Want to know how Ted Williams compares with Albert Pujols in terms of offensive abilities? This is your statistic.



FWIW, Ortiz has had 5 such seasons (and a couple real close), Vlad had 4 (and a few close), Sheffield had 6. Edgar had 8.

8 very good seasons <> HoF

Only 33rd in one of the most significant statistical categories, OPS. Ahead of Chipper Jones, Hank Aaron, Tris Speaker, Frank Robinson, Mike Piazza, Duke Snider, Mike Schmidt, Ken Griffey Jr., Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Eddie Mathews, Harmon Killebrew, Jackie Robinson, Wade Boggs, Honus Wagner, George Brett, Al Kaline, George Sisler, Tony Gwynn, Nap Lajoie, Reggie Jackson, Carl Yastrzemski, Cap Anson, Kirby Puckett, Eddie Murray, Roberto Clemente, Yogi Berra, Don Mattingly, Ernie Banks, Derek Jeter, Dave Winfield, Rod Carew, Rickey Henderson, Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Paul Molitor, Roberto Alomar, Andre Dawson, Craig Biggio, Ryne Sandberg and COUNTLESS other greats of the game and Hall of Famers.

Listing all those greats doesn't say much.

Another stat largely dependent on walks, like the one above. And it's a rate stat that misses out on the longevity part that's another big part of the HoF story. Rates + counting stats are part of the puzzle.

oWAR - 67th
Avg - 95th
OBP - 20th!
Slg - 69th
Hits - 164th
Total Bases - 123rd
RBI - 126th
RC - 59th

He was a very good hitter, and had a fantastic career. But the sum of it all falls a bit short, in my opinion. And the voting hasn't shown that he's a sure thing to make it. He may get in, which wouldn't be an injustice. But the Hall isn't hurting because he's not yet in.

To answer the question in the original post: the door has been open for DH's, no change is because Frank should get in. There just hasn't yet been a mostly-DH with the career to support inclusion in the HoF.

 

[U L Washington Rookie]

Please use some sort of facts in your posts or I just can't take them too seriously.

His first full year, age 27 he had a WAR of 5.5 (12th overall in MLB), at 28 his 5.7 WAR was 13th overall, and 29 his 6.2 WAR was 8th in baseball.

And if you want to talk WAR here, you might note that he likely shows some solid WAR value from his fielding those early seasons - especially that 5.5 WAR season. My point was about his hitting.

 

[joeya2001]

WAR huhhhh what is it good for!!
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[nosterbor]

" Has he been linked to PEDs " This make me ILL! I am sick of this statement. He said, she said. They all did it, so I have just linked them all to P.E.D's How's that.