ebay situation......*updated*

[EricInCT]

Re: ebay situation......

Wow, this guy is unreal....I just received another email from him:

Hi Eric,

Just want to make sure you received my e mail regarding my desire to return the Hanson card, as the condition does not meet the expectations I had after communicating with you through e-mail. I have no hard feelings. Just would like confirmation that I can receive a full refund so that I do not have to contact paypal and my credit card company.

Thanks in advance for getting back to me. I will mail the card back to you once I receive a response.

-Jason

Total clown, I have no problem giving him his $$$ back, it is disconcerning that people expect gem mint when they dont ask for it.....if he asked me if it was gem mint I would have said NO.

 

[allstars]

Re: ebay situation......

Definately. Alot of times when I get the "is this card perfect under 10000x magnification I ask the guy to please not bid on my auctions, and consider buying a gem mint graded copy so he wont be disappointed. Of course, those types can't afford the graded specimen. I also find it rare that one of those guys actually wins the auction anyway lol.

If I remember right you accepted a best offer from that joker?

 

[hive17]

Re: ebay situation......

If you were the buyer in this situation, my response would be as follows: you want BGS 9.5 ****, ask your wife to loosen the purse strings and buy it already graded.

Since you're the seller here, my response is as follows: refund this guy his money b/c he's not worth the trouble.

As a side note, maybe once he's left feedback, instruct him to the way of thinking above.

 

[EricInCT]

Re: ebay situation......

Wow, this guy is unreal....I just received another email from him:

Hi Eric,

Just want to make sure you received my e mail regarding my desire to return the Hanson card, as the condition does not meet the expectations I had after communicating with you through e-mail. I have no hard feelings. Just would like confirmation that I can receive a full refund so that I do not have to contact paypal and my credit card company.

Thanks in advance for getting back to me. I will mail the card back to you once I receive a response.

-Jason

Total clown, I have no problem giving him his $$$ back, it is disconcerning that people expect gem mint when they dont ask for it.....if he asked me if it was gem mint I would have said NO.

Since this is my first ever experience with this, I am going to treat it as an experiment. After all, after he wrote this email he filed a paypal claim and they locked up my $ for this transaction. The least I can do now is fight it and see what mentality paypal has.....here is what I wrote:

I have 100% feedback. My DSR rating on eBay is 4.9 for item as described. No where in the description does it
mention any condition of the item, the buyer assumed. I received an email asking if the item was mint, it is. I
took the card from a BGS 9.0 slab since they are expensive to ship and do not demand a premium. The card sent
to the buyer was graded professionally and graded MINT 9.0. These are quotes from the email I received from the buyer:
"The back right corner is not sharp"
"there is a pin head sized ding along the back top border"
"$97 is top price for this card and I was hoping to receive one in better condition"
I will be happy to funish this email upon request. Notice how the buyer doesn't mention major damage, just
minor blemishes and imperfections that are difficult to detect from the naked eye, and again, are not guaranteed.
If the buyer complained that it was damaged on delivery and destoryed, then I would take full responsibility.
I didn't look under a microscope for a card that was not guaranteed in my decription to be immaculate.
I can furnish pictures of the cracked case and the serial number and grades this card received from BGS, the remains
are still in the wastebasket in the basement. I do not feel I did anything wrong in this matter. Please advise.


Again, I don't care if I win I just want to see what they say....it is the least I can do for someone who tied up my $ and is trying to make me look bad....might as well leave the $ in limbo....he won't get his money for awhile, he can send the card back whenever, I don't need it right away anyways.

Any guesses on the outcome?

 

[prozac4312]

I think using card collecting jargon is a silly tactic when trying to win over PayPal.

Use simpler terms.

 

[EricInCT]

I think using card collecting jargon is a silly tactic when trying to win over PayPal.

Use simpler terms.

Are you referring to term BGS?
What is simpler then 'professionally graded'?

 

[boomo]

its ebay and paypal, youll probably get screwed, but if you get it back, so what?
ill take it for that price.

 

[justinmandawg]

Bend over, grab your ankles and prepare to get screwed.

 

[Lancemountain]

I dunno, guess I am in the minority here so excuse my noobish opinion....


But he seemed to me to be very courteous and polite from the start. He simply asked about blemishes of the card you sold him, a card you cracked and didn't mention that fact.

Perhaps he was looking to hard for a beaut but to be fair you even admitted to not being completely 100% about the card.

A pin hole size hole to one is a huge scratch to others. To each his own and since he is the buyer, it's really only his opinion of it that matters, sorry.


Again maybe he was being a little to critical but it's his $97 and you should have just accepted the return and relisted it. ****, one guy here in the thread said he'd buy it! Now you gotta go through the dispute BS.

 

[notjomommasclint]

I dunno, guess I am in the minority here so excuse my noobish opinion....


But he seemed to me to be very courteous and polite from the start. He simply asked about blemishes of the card you sold him, a card you cracked and didn't mention that fact.

Perhaps he was looking to hard for a beaut but to be fair you even admitted to not being completely 100% about the card.

A pin hole size hole to one is a huge scratch to others. To each his own and since he is the buyer, it's really only his opinion of it that matters, sorry.


Again maybe he was being a little to critical but it's his $97 and you should have just accepted the return and relisted it. shat, one guy here in the thread said he'd buy it! Now you gotta go through the dispute BS.

+1

 

[phillyfan0417]

I dunno, guess I am in the minority here so excuse my noobish opinion....


But he seemed to me to be very courteous and polite from the start. He simply asked about blemishes of the card you sold him, a card you cracked and didn't mention that fact.

Perhaps he was looking to hard for a beaut but to be fair you even admitted to not being completely 100% about the card.

A pin hole size hole to one is a huge scratch to others. To each his own and since he is the buyer, it's really only his opinion of it that matters, sorry.


Again maybe he was being a little to critical but it's his $97 and you should have just accepted the return and relisted it. shat, one guy here in the thread said he'd buy it! Now you gotta go through the dispute BS.

+1

I'm not accepting anything. Unless I say in the auction this is a gem mint card. Buying raw cards on ebay is a gamble and everyone knows it. Fight it and unless you gave an opinion on card condition in the auction, you should be ok.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

I kind of agree with the above 2 posters on this....as a buyer, it furiates me to buy these cards on ebay, even when the seller discloses the condition or describes it to me, to get it in and find other minor/major flaws. Honestly, I would have requested the refund on this one as soon as you described the card as you did and then in a later email said you broke it out of a BGS 9 case. (You should have just disclosed that this was a BGS 9 and you broke it out when the seller originally asked about condition)

I understand the card was being sold as raw (basically you were hoping to get more out of the card raw, hoping someone would buy it raw hoping to get a 9.5 to break it out of a 9 case--only thing that makes sense in doing that) and this buyer called your bluff when he got the card in and realized it wasnt.

He will win the PAYPAL claim hands down, or at least he will be on the hook for $97 if that is the price that you both had agreed upon in your correspondence.



As a seller I would have either told the guy right away that the card was a BGS 9 and you broke it out, or simply stated that the card has a few minor flaws and that you are not a professional grader and that if the seller is not happy with the card when he recieves it, he can return it per the terms on your return policy stated in the auction. Either way though, once they file a PAYPAL claim, you are better off just taking the card back and refunding the money once you recieve.


TK

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

I dunno, guess I am in the minority here so excuse my noobish opinion....


But he seemed to me to be very courteous and polite from the start. He simply asked about blemishes of the card you sold him, a card you cracked and didn't mention that fact.

Perhaps he was looking to hard for a beaut but to be fair you even admitted to not being completely 100% about the card.

A pin hole size hole to one is a huge scratch to others. To each his own and since he is the buyer, it's really only his opinion of it that matters, sorry.


Again maybe he was being a little to critical but it's his $97 and you should have just accepted the return and relisted it. shat, one guy here in the thread said he'd buy it! Now you gotta go through the dispute BS.

+1

I'm not accepting anything. Unless I say in the auction this is a gem mint card. Buying raw cards on ebay is a gamble and everyone knows it. Fight it and unless you gave an opinion on card condition in the auction, you should be ok.

I agree with this unless you describe the card and then the buyer gets it in and there is other damage not disclosed......not to mention the fact that he didnt disclose that the card was in a BGS 9 holder and he cracked it until after the seller had bought the card and wanted to return it.

 

[bigpops65]

Why wouldn't you describe the card in the auction? Isn't that part of your responsibility as a seller?? I think he is within his right to request a refund here, since he did ask, in a very courteous manner, about the condition and asked for photos.

It seems to me that you are trying to pull a fast one here. Sure, a BGS 9 doesn't get a premium. But a raw card would get more than a 9, which is why you cracked it and sold it as raw. Because if there wasn't a difference, why not just sell it as a BGS 9???

 

[f2tornado]

Buying raw cards on ebay is a gamble and everyone knows it. Fight it and unless you gave an opinion on card condition in the auction, you should be ok.

I'll agree and disagree. Buying raw is a gamble if you are hoping for a grade above the seller's listed condition. Paypal will cover your butt every time should the card not be in the advertised condition. This is an awkward case as the card is technically mint and the seller stated such. The buyer took a gamble and it didn't work out. The buyer was not as polite as some here suggest; I read his perfect feedback comment as "I can blemish that record". While I understand the point the seller wishes to make I don't think it is worth the headache. A simple refund upon receipt takes care of this buyer and gets you money... faster. Sell that card before the guy gives up eight runs in four innings. If the card was left in the damn case the seller would not have this problem. Further, the seller should not be advertising he cracks out 9's (in what I assume in hopes of getting a higher raw price).

 

[EricInCT]

I dunno, guess I am in the minority here so excuse my noobish opinion....


But he seemed to me to be very courteous and polite from the start. He simply asked about blemishes of the card you sold him, a card you cracked and didn't mention that fact.

Perhaps he was looking to hard for a beaut but to be fair you even admitted to not being completely 100% about the card.

A pin hole size hole to one is a huge scratch to others. To each his own and since he is the buyer, it's really only his opinion of it that matters, sorry.


Again maybe he was being a little to critical but it's his $97 and you should have just accepted the return and relisted it. shat, one guy here in the thread said he'd buy it! Now you gotta go through the dispute BS.

+1

I'm not accepting anything. Unless I say in the auction this is a gem mint card. Buying raw cards on ebay is a gamble and everyone knows it. Fight it and unless you gave an opinion on card condition in the auction, you should be ok.

I agree with this unless you describe the card and then the buyer gets it in and there is other damage not disclosed......not to mention the fact that he didnt disclose that the card was in a BGS 9 holder and he cracked it until after the seller had bought the card and wanted to return it.

I appreciate everyone's point of view....it has nothing to do with money this is an experiment at this point (since my $ is being held hostage already) to see what mentality paypal views this. I need to know if someone can abuse the system at will when nothing is written in the description of the auction and it is one parties' opinion versus another. This is my first experience in years of selling on the bay and at the least I want it to be educational.

Now, getting back to graded versus ungraded: If I was to disclose that the raw card used to be in a BGS slab then I would have just left it there, no? I am not trying to pull a fast one on the customer I offer quality products and if it is something I wouldn't want to own then I will take the loss rather than list it. I wish the person would have said "I am looking to grade this card......" THEN I would have told him it is already graded......he NEVER mentioned the surface of the card front or back in any corrospondences we have had, just after the fact.

 

[EricInCT]

Why wouldn't you describe the card in the auction? Isn't that part of your responsibility as a seller?? I think he is within his right to request a refund here, since he did ask, in a very courteous manner, about the condition and asked for photos.

It seems to me that you are trying to pull a fast one here. Sure, a BGS 9 doesn't get a premium. But a raw card would get more than a 9, which is why you cracked it and sold it as raw. Because if there wasn't a difference, why not just sell it as a BGS 9???

I don't know if you are a seller on ebay my friend but if I had put "near mint to mint" it would not have made any difference. Do you even know what a near mint card is classified as in relation to grading?

 

[Card Magnet]

As I've been saying since the very first reply to this message, if the scratches and ding were there, you have an obligation as a seller to tell the buy - especially when he asks about condition. Even if they're on the back. The front isn't the only part of the card.

So in your line of thinking, I could sell you a card with a perfectly centered front and nice corners and a big streak of crap down the back, and it would be fine because the front is "immaculate"?

Also, many people don't know the classifications of grading. Don't assume people on ebay know things - many are uneducated. Mint to many collectors means that it's perfect to the eye.

Now if the pinhole on the back isn't visible to the naked eye, and in fact only shows up under a magnifying glass, then that is a different story, and my above statements change - and I think you're in the right as you can't be responsible for something you can't see.

If you can see the hole and scrates though, you should lose the PayPal claim (you will regardless because PayPal will just side with the buyer).

The buyer was very polite about the issues, imo. Since he has to go through the trouble to get his money back on a card with preexisting damages that were not disclosed, you deserve to be negged. Plain and simple.

Just mho, please don't take it personal.

 

[EricInCT]

As I've been saying since the very first reply to this message, if the scratches and ding were there, you have an obligation as a seller to tell the buy - especially when he asks about condition. Even if they're on the back. The front isn't the only part of the card.

So in your line of thinking, I could sell you a card with a perfectly centered front and nice corners and a big streak of crap down the back, and it would be fine because the front is "immaculate"?

Also, many people don't know the classifications of grading. Don't assume people on ebay know things - many are uneducated. Mint to many collectors means that it's perfect to the eye.

Now if the pinhole on the back isn't visible to the naked eye, and in fact only shows up under a magnifying glass, then that is a different story, and my above statements change - and I think you're in the right as you can't be responsible for something you can't see.

If you can see the hole and scrates though, you should lose the PayPal claim (you will regardless because PayPal will just side with the buyer).

The buyer was very polite about the issues, imo. Since he has to go through the trouble to get his money back on a card with preexisting damages that were not disclosed, you deserve to be negged. Plain and simple.

Just mho, please don't take it personal.

No I don't take it personal, thank you for contributing your opinion. The buyer can not neg me because once either of us wins then feedback will not be allowed (for obvious reasons).

 

[bigpops65]

Why wouldn't you describe the card in the auction? Isn't that part of your responsibility as a seller?? I think he is within his right to request a refund here, since he did ask, in a very courteous manner, about the condition and asked for photos.

It seems to me that you are trying to pull a fast one here. Sure, a BGS 9 doesn't get a premium. But a raw card would get more than a 9, which is why you cracked it and sold it as raw. Because if there wasn't a difference, why not just sell it as a BGS 9???

I don't know if you are a seller on ebay my friend but if I had put "near mint to mint" it would not have made any difference. Do you even know what a near mint card is classified as in relation to grading?

I am a seller on eBay, and whenever I list a card, I list the condition and any blemishes that may be present. I also post photos of the card, and an upclose photo of the area that may be in question. I also state that NrMt is my opinion, I am not a professional grader and to ask questions. But I always post photos and would certainly mention if the back of the card had a ding and scratches. That, my friend, is being deceptive.

Also, not putting anything about the condition is a little shady.