ebay situation......*updated*

[EricInCT]

Why wouldn't you describe the card in the auction? Isn't that part of your responsibility as a seller?? I think he is within his right to request a refund here, since he did ask, in a very courteous manner, about the condition and asked for photos.

It seems to me that you are trying to pull a fast one here. Sure, a BGS 9 doesn't get a premium. But a raw card would get more than a 9, which is why you cracked it and sold it as raw. Because if there wasn't a difference, why not just sell it as a BGS 9???

I don't know if you are a seller on ebay my friend but if I had put "near mint to mint" it would not have made any difference. Do you even know what a near mint card is classified as in relation to grading?

I am a seller on eBay, and whenever I list a card, I list the condition and any blemishes that may be present. I also post photos of the card, and an upclose photo of the area that may be in question. I also state that NrMt is my opinion, I am not a professional grader and to ask questions. But I always post photos and would certainly mention if the back of the card had a ding and scratches. That, my friend, is being deceptive.

Also, not putting anything about the condition is a little shady.

It never ceases to amaze me what thought process people have.

 

[bigpops65]

Why wouldn't you describe the card in the auction? Isn't that part of your responsibility as a seller?? I think he is within his right to request a refund here, since he did ask, in a very courteous manner, about the condition and asked for photos.

It seems to me that you are trying to pull a fast one here. Sure, a BGS 9 doesn't get a premium. But a raw card would get more than a 9, which is why you cracked it and sold it as raw. Because if there wasn't a difference, why not just sell it as a BGS 9???

I don't know if you are a seller on ebay my friend but if I had put "near mint to mint" it would not have made any difference. Do you even know what a near mint card is classified as in relation to grading?

I am a seller on eBay, and whenever I list a card, I list the condition and any blemishes that may be present. I also post photos of the card, and an upclose photo of the area that may be in question. I also state that NrMt is my opinion, I am not a professional grader and to ask questions. But I always post photos and would certainly mention if the back of the card had a ding and scratches. That, my friend, is being deceptive.

Also, not putting anything about the condition is a little shady.

It never ceases to amaze me what thought process people have.

Wow, wonder that means. I apologize that my "thought process" included wanting to see pictures of the card and know the condition of said card. If no one else wants to know this when buying a card, I guess I am in the minority there. How absolutely crazy of me to want to know if there are "small dings on corners" or "scratches on the back of the card." Those would seem to be pretty important issues to mention in a description of the card in an auction.

 

[Card Magnet]

Two more things. Well, 3...

1. Do you have a return policy with your auctions? / Will PayPal make the seller ship the card back first?

2. I wanted to add that I don't think you were trying to pull anything shady. It's just a difference in buyer/seller opinion on conditions.

3. If PayPal could, they would take your firstborn child to please a buyer. :lol:

 

[jcmint]

A few thoughts here.

A bgs 9 means the card is mint.
With raw cards you gotta keep it vague because of guys excepting every card they get to be a gem mint quality card. That simply does nt happen on ebay anymore.
You will lose your case which I am sure you know, Ebay and paypal will always side with the buyer.
Scan the card next time and keep the condition vague this way they cant hold you up for a very minor defect.

Please post this guys ebay name. I am sure many here would like to know. If not pm me

 

[EricInCT]

Why wouldn't you describe the card in the auction? Isn't that part of your responsibility as a seller?? I think he is within his right to request a refund here, since he did ask, in a very courteous manner, about the condition and asked for photos.

It seems to me that you are trying to pull a fast one here. Sure, a BGS 9 doesn't get a premium. But a raw card would get more than a 9, which is why you cracked it and sold it as raw. Because if there wasn't a difference, why not just sell it as a BGS 9???

I don't know if you are a seller on ebay my friend but if I had put "near mint to mint" it would not have made any difference. Do you even know what a near mint card is classified as in relation to grading?

I am a seller on eBay, and whenever I list a card, I list the condition and any blemishes that may be present. I also post photos of the card, and an upclose photo of the area that may be in question. I also state that NrMt is my opinion, I am not a professional grader and to ask questions. But I always post photos and would certainly mention if the back of the card had a ding and scratches. That, my friend, is being deceptive.

Also, not putting anything about the condition is a little shady.

It never ceases to amaze me what thought process people have.

Wow, wonder that means. I apologize that my "thought process" included wanting to see pictures of the card and know the condition of said card. If no one else wants to know this when buying a card, I guess I am in the minority there. How absolutely crazy of me to want to know if there are "small dings on corners" or "scratches on the back of the card." Those would seem to be pretty important issues to mention in a description of the card in an auction.

nothing against you my friend, it just amazes me all the different points of view , that's all. Of course there was a picture, don't be silly.

 

[EricInCT]

A few thoughts here.

A bgs 9 means the card is mint.
With raw cards you gotta keep it vague because of guys excepting every card they get to be a gem mint quality card. That simply does nt happen on ebay anymore.
You will lose your case which I am sure you know, Ebay and paypal will always side with the buyer.
Scan the card next time and keep the condition vague this way they cant hold you up for a very minor defect.

Please post this guys ebay name. I am sure many here would like to know. If not pm me

I kept it pretty simple ~ no condition listed, asked me if it was mint and told him it was. If you scanned a 2007 Bowman Chrome card with the white background, even a 10 Megabyte pic you would not be able to tell a scratch or a ding, especially a 'pin size ding'. There was a scan of the front, not the back. I bet the % of scans of the front AND back of every card llsted is less than 5%.

I am pretty confident I will lose, my funds are already gone out of my account so it doesn't make much of a difference. Very curious to see what paypal has to say.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

A few thoughts here.

A bgs 9 means the card is mint.
With raw cards you gotta keep it vague because of guys excepting every card they get to be a gem mint quality card. That simply does nt happen on ebay anymore.
You will lose your case which I am sure you know, Ebay and paypal will always side with the buyer.
Scan the card next time and keep the condition vague this way they cant hold you up for a very minor defect.

Please post this guys ebay name. I am sure many here would like to know. If not pm me

I kept it pretty simple ~ no condition listed, asked me if it was mint and told him it was. If you scanned a 2007 Bowman Chrome card with the white background, even a 10 Megabyte pic you would not be able to tell a scratch or a ding, especially a 'pin size ding'. There was a scan of the front, not the back. I bet the % of scans of the front AND back of every card llsted is less than 5%.

I am pretty confident I will lose, my funds are already gone out of my account so it doesn't make much of a difference. Very curious to see what paypal has to say.

Only reason the funds are out of your acct. because they always hold funds that are in "Dispute" That doesnt mean you have lost already.

You will not really win or lose this claim, PAYPAL is going to force the buyer to send the card back to you (usually at his cost) before you/PAYPAL refunds the money back to him. This is pretty common practice for an item that has been recvd and the buyer is not happy with as the card can just be returned and it is a pretty easy outcome. And you will be able to move and just resell the card.


TK

 

[EricInCT]

A few thoughts here.

A bgs 9 means the card is mint.
With raw cards you gotta keep it vague because of guys excepting every card they get to be a gem mint quality card. That simply does nt happen on ebay anymore.
You will lose your case which I am sure you know, Ebay and paypal will always side with the buyer.
Scan the card next time and keep the condition vague this way they cant hold you up for a very minor defect.

Please post this guys ebay name. I am sure many here would like to know. If not pm me

I kept it pretty simple ~ no condition listed, asked me if it was mint and told him it was. If you scanned a 2007 Bowman Chrome card with the white background, even a 10 Megabyte pic you would not be able to tell a scratch or a ding, especially a 'pin size ding'. There was a scan of the front, not the back. I bet the % of scans of the front AND back of every card llsted is less than 5%.

I am pretty confident I will lose, my funds are already gone out of my account so it doesn't make much of a difference. Very curious to see what paypal has to say.

Only reason the funds are out of your acct. because they always hold funds that are in "Dispute" That doesnt mean you have lost already.
You will not really win or lose this claim, PAYPAL is going to force the buyer to send the card back to you (usually at his cost) before you/PAYPAL refunds the money back to him. This is pretty common practice for an item that has been recvd and the buyer is not happy with as the card can just be returned and it is a pretty easy outcome. And you will be able to move and just resell the card.


TK

Correct. Since my financial position will not improve or recess the deeper I am involved in the dispute, at least I can learn first hand how paypal views the situation. The only drawback is waiting for the card, which it doesn't matter when it arrives....the buyer doesn't get paid until he has proof it was delivered back to me.



I received an orange refractor in the mail the other day that stated it was mint condition, the back corner was nicked (no pic and was not disclosed), I thought nothing of it. Maybe I should contact ebay and let them know the guy lied to me and put false info in his auction :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[EricInCT]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

 

[Card Magnet]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

I just curious if you offered returns and if there were conditions for returns (and if the buyer followed/met them).

Like I said, it doesn't matter because PayPal will overrule EVERYTHING you say at any point in your auction about anything.

 

[EricInCT]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

I just curious if you offered returns and if there were conditions for returns (and if the buyer followed/met them).

Like I said, it doesn't matter because PayPal will overrule EVERYTHING you say at any point in your auction about anything.

That is awesome! :lol: Time to return an orange refractor.

 

[Johan Santana 57]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Means nothing, just like saying "SELLING AS IS". I did this one time when I was younger with a vintage card I had, since I saw everyone selling it like that. Turned out the card was fake, but he still won even though it was sold as is. Now if it is the real world, AS IS or ALL SALES ARE FINAL stand. Makes me wonder why in the world of eBay that means nothing???

 

[Card Magnet]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Means nothing, just like saying "SELLING AS IS". I did this one time when I was younger with a vintage card I had, since I saw everyone selling it like that. Turned out the card was fake, but he still won even though it was sold as is. Now if it is the real world, AS IS or ALL SALES ARE FINAL stand. Makes me wonder why in the world of eBay that means nothing???

They are above/outside the normal FTC laws I think. It really sucks.

 

[Jack Straw]

Did you take pictures of the card in the BGS holder?
Did you submit the card?
Did you think it was graded properly?
Cert #?

 

[Johan Santana 57]

[quote="Johan Santana 57":3cr1zjim]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Means nothing, just like saying "SELLING AS IS". I did this one time when I was younger with a vintage card I had, since I saw everyone selling it like that. Turned out the card was fake, but he still won even though it was sold as is. Now if it is the real world, AS IS or ALL SALES ARE FINAL stand. Makes me wonder why in the world of eBay that means nothing???

They are above/outside the normal FTC laws I think. It really sucks.[/quote:3cr1zjim]

I figured they were able to get around them, but that makes no sense. An eBay transaction should have the same laws apply if we are going to treat them like binding contracts.

 

[Card Magnet]

[quote="Card Magnet":rt3r79hn][quote="Johan Santana 57":rt3r79hn]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Means nothing, just like saying "SELLING AS IS". I did this one time when I was younger with a vintage card I had, since I saw everyone selling it like that. Turned out the card was fake, but he still won even though it was sold as is. Now if it is the real world, AS IS or ALL SALES ARE FINAL stand. Makes me wonder why in the world of eBay that means nothing???

They are above/outside the normal FTC laws I think. It really sucks.[/quote:rt3r79hn]

I figured they were able to get around them, but that makes no sense. An eBay transaction should have the same laws apply if we are going to treat them like binding contracts.[/quote:rt3r79hn]
I'm thinking that because of ebay and paypal's ToS, you agree to let them do it. You agree to their way or reasoning (or lack of) out disputes, that you are comfortable with their "Seller (un)Protection" and other policies. You entered a binding agreement when you accepted the ToS. At least, that's how I would assume they can manhandle you.

Of course they are biased for the seller - they want people to keep buying so they can get their fees. If they lose a seller, it's no big deal because the people will buy somewhere else.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Not necessarily....if you have a detailed picture in the auction and you clearly state that there are no returns and the sale is final, etc. and you send the exact card that is pictured, then it is up to the buyer to make that decision for himself and if all that info is sent into/shown to PAYPAL that the buyer bought the card under those conditions, then they probably would decide in the seller's favor.

However, in this case, there was communication through emails etc, where the condition of the card was discussed and the buyer got a card that he thought was not accurately described and then when he emailed the seller he found out that the card actually was busted out of a BGS 9 case which was not disclosed when he bought the card......so he will get his money back on that one.



The flip side to this is if you put all sales are final etc., and you are knowingly sending cards that are not what you had pictured, or they are fake, etc. then ebay/PAYPAL will deal with that accordingly and more than likely side with the buyer.


The dicey part of all of this is how they have been handling the damaged card in the mail without the buyer paying for insurance when THE BUYER opted to not pay for it and it was offered. So far they have always ruled in favor of the buyer, but I dont agree with that one. I feel if insurance is clearly offered and the buyer decides to not take it, then it is not fair to ding the seller in that case.

TK

 

[EricInCT]

Did you take pictures of the card in the BGS holder?
Did you submit the card?
Did you think it was graded properly?
Cert #?

I don't know what you are referring to? Yes I submitted the card, I don't remember taking pics, I will have to check. It wasn't .5 off from gem it only had 9s and a 9.5 so I didn't bother. What is a cert #?

I am confused on the point you are making?

 

[EricInCT]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Not necessarily....if you have a detailed picture in the auction and you clearly state that there are no returns and the sale is final, etc. and you send the exact card that is pictured, then it is up to the buyer to make that decision for himself and if all that info is sent into/shown to PAYPAL that the buyer bought the card under those conditions, then they probably would decide in the seller's favor.

However, in this case, there was communication through emails etc, where the condition of the card was discussed and the buyer got a card that he thought was not accurately described and then when he emailed the seller he found out that the card actually was busted out of a BGS 9 case which was not disclosed when he bought the card......so he will get his money back on that one.



The flip side to this is if you put all sales are final etc., and you are knowingly sending cards that are not what you had pictured, or they are fake, etc. then ebay/PAYPAL will deal with that accordingly and more than likely side with the buyer.



TK

I don't see how this matter one bit? Graded a 7.0, I might see how it could be misleading. Otherwise please explain.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

Last question:

What does it matter if you have a return policy or not listed in your auction....No return policy? All the buyer has to do is file a complaint and *poof* you have a return policy now.

What if I said "all sales are final" ~ Paypal would still give the buyer their money, right?

Not necessarily....if you have a detailed picture in the auction and you clearly state that there are no returns and the sale is final, etc. and you send the exact card that is pictured, then it is up to the buyer to make that decision for himself and if all that info is sent into/shown to PAYPAL that the buyer bought the card under those conditions, then they probably would decide in the seller's favor.

However, in this case, there was communication through emails etc, where the condition of the card was discussed and the buyer got a card that he thought was not accurately described and then when he emailed the seller he found out that the card actually was busted out of a BGS 9 case which was not disclosed when he bought the card......so he will get his money back on that one.



The flip side to this is if you put all sales are final etc., and you are knowingly sending cards that are not what you had pictured, or they are fake, etc. then ebay/PAYPAL will deal with that accordingly and more than likely side with the buyer.



TK

I don't see how this matter one bit? Graded a 7.0, I might see how it could be misleading. Otherwise please explain.

It matters because the seller was looking for an explanation on the certain aspects of the condition of the card......which you tried to accurately describe, however you knowingly already knew the condition of the card in grading standards and did not disclose this to the buyer. However, after the buyer had already knowingly bought the card and emailed you back, you then told him it was a BGS 9 that you cracked. Dont you think that if you had disclosed that up front the out come would have been different....my guess is the buyer either would not have bought the card or offered you much less.

Again, I have dealt with you before and I know you were just trying to get the most out of your auction just like anyone else would have. But in this case, since you were selling the card raw and answering questions as if you didnt know what the card would grade to a person that was obvioulsy buying the card based on condition or to grade himself, you should have probably told him up front.

Either way, it is not really that big of a deal because the buyer can easily return the card for a full refund. I have done the same, and I wouldnt necessarily just throw out a negative bomb on your feedback especially if you were easy to work with throughout the process. It is more of just a disagreement or opinion on the condition of a card.


TK