For what it's worth, this is a grab bag...

[masonphillip]

Re: For what it's worth, this is also a grab bag...

This post is about Tristar and has nothing to do with Brian Gray or Razor.

Then what was the "also" referring to in your title? If it was just referring to Tristar it would have said "this is a grab bag," right?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Edited, for your pleasure.

 

[bradical]

Re: For what it's worth, this is also a grab bag...

I read a case on this years ago. The cards are defines as the collectable that you're keeping and buying, and the Million Card giveaway is the bonus. You're buying a collectable set of baseball cards. Not a grab bag.

In this case, wouldn't the ball inside the pack be defined as the collectible? There is a set/checklist from Tri-Star for this product, so in theory, one could attempt to collect the entire set.

 

[nyc3]

What a colorful pile on!

 

[Bob Loblaw]

What a colorful pile on!

It was colorful, was it not?

 

[NECpilgrims8]

Oh god, give it a rest already.

The "colors" of the FCB aren't out to get you.

You brought this on yourself.

 

[AKT74]

It is not a lottery for one simple reason. In a lottery you have a defined winner and everyone else is a loser. With this, and any product you still end up with something of value. If every box was empty except the Ruth box, then you would have a lottery.

Your arguement that other boxes can be collected so they are not a lottery, well why can't someone collect this product?

 

[nyc3]

Oh god, give it a rest already.

The "colors" of the FCB aren't out to get you.

You brought this on yourself.

Cute picture, can we get one with people with tinfoil hats who like to scream "CONSPIRACY" every time a subject is brought up they dont want to talk about? Or how about an ironic one that says "If you dont like it dont click it" you know the tag line for you guys, well when its convenient of course.

 

[cgilmo]

Regardless of a users status on this board, we are all able to have a stance on an issue.


It doesn't matter if the argument is coming from a moderator or a member when it comes to a debate. The "colorful" pile on is coincidental, and only happened because we happen to agree on this issue.

 

[phillyfan0417]

What a colorful pile on!

Wasnt it though?


I do enjoy your passive aggressive approach to these types of threads.

 

[nyc3]

What a colorful pile on!

Wasnt it though?


I do enjoy your passive aggressive approach to these types of threads.

Thank you, apparently its easier than posting my opinion. Far less cats pictures and half cocked dopes threating lawsuits this way

 

[IndyManning18]

I don't believe this to be a lottery of any sort. You buy the bag, you get an auto'd ball of a former Yankee. Where is the lottery aspect?

 

[phillyfan0417]

What a colorful pile on!

Wasnt it though?


I do enjoy your passive aggressive approach to these types of threads.

Thank you, apparently its easier than posting my opinion. Far less cats pictures and half cocked dopes threating lawsuits this way

:lol:

 

[Bob Loblaw]

California Penal Code 319

A lottery is any scheme for the disposal or distribution of
property by chance, among persons who have paid or promised to pay
any valuable consideration for the chance of obtaining such property
or a portion of it, or for any share or any interest in such
property, upon any agreement, understanding, or expectation that it
is to be distributed or disposed of by lot or chance, whether called
a lottery, raffle, or gift enterprise, or by whatever name the same
may be known.

California Penal Code 319.3

(a) In addition to Section 319, a lottery also shall include
a grab bag game which is a scheme whereby, for the disposal or
distribution of sports trading cards by chance, a person pays
valuable consideration to purchase a sports trading card grab bag
with the understanding that the purchaser has a chance to win a
designated prize or prizes listed by the seller as being contained in
one or more, but not all, of the grab bags.
(b) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(1) "Sports trading card grab bag" means a sealed package which
contains one or more sports trading cards that have been removed from
the manufacturer's original packaging. A "sports trading card grab
bag" does not include a sweepstakes, or procedure for the
distribution of any sports trading card of value by lot or by chance,
which is not unlawful under other provisions of law.
(2) "Sports trading card" means any card produced for use in
commerce that contains a company name or logo, or both, and an image,
representation, or facsimile of one or more players or other team
member or members in any pose, and that is produced pursuant to an
appropriate licensing agreement.


California Penal Code 320

Every person who contrives, prepares, sets up, proposes, or
draws any lottery, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

Re: For what it's worth, this is also a grab bag...

[quote="Jeff N.":2mpuqqzc]The million card giveaway is a sweepstakes, but it's not enticing you to buy the product. If you were going to throw away the cards and only hunt for the million card giveaway, perhaps. To put it in a scenario that most of the guys here can understand, it's like Monopoly at McDonalds. You're not going to throw away the delectable royale with cheese and greasefries to play Monopoly - it's an added bonus.

A lottery is a game of chance where you pay your money in the hope for a grand prize. In this situation, the Ruth ball. Sure, you may get something lesser (i.e a $5 winning ticket vs. a David Justice ball), but you want the grand prize.

Please help me understand how your definition of a lottery could not be applied to busting a box of cards?

I read a case on this years ago. The cards are defines as the collectable that you're keeping and buying, and the Million Card giveaway is the bonus. You're buying a collectable set of baseball cards. Not a grab bag.[/quote:2mpuqqzc]

I thought the No Purchase Necessary was put on packs to avoid the lottery/gambling aspect? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's both. Just remember reading that at one point.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Re: For what it's worth, this is also a grab bag...

[quote="Jeff N.":1581li1e]The million card giveaway is a sweepstakes, but it's not enticing you to buy the product. If you were going to throw away the cards and only hunt for the million card giveaway, perhaps. To put it in a scenario that most of the guys here can understand, it's like Monopoly at McDonalds. You're not going to throw away the delectable royale with cheese and greasefries to play Monopoly - it's an added bonus.

A lottery is a game of chance where you pay your money in the hope for a grand prize. In this situation, the Ruth ball. Sure, you may get something lesser (i.e a $5 winning ticket vs. a David Justice ball), but you want the grand prize.

Please help me understand how your definition of a lottery could not be applied to busting a box of cards?

I read a case on this years ago. The cards are defines as the collectable that you're keeping and buying, and the Million Card giveaway is the bonus. You're buying a collectable set of baseball cards. Not a grab bag.

I thought the No Purchase Necessary was put on packs to avoid the lottery/gambling aspect? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's both. Just remember reading that at one point.[/quote:1581li1e]

NPNs are available on any type of sweepstakes. I believe -and don't hold me to it - that it's illegal to compel the purchase of a product to enter a sweepstakes - therefore, there are NPNs to enter sweepstakes of baseball cards, to get free McDonalds Monopoly pieces, etc.

 

[rymflaherty]

I can see the "lottery" argument.....but I think to some extent that can be applied to all trading card releases.

Before I got back into collecting I used to waste a lot of money on scratch tickets.....instead of spending money on those I'd buy trading cards. Part of it is the fact there is that gambling aspect to it....but then the reason I enjoyed opening boxes of cards was (as others have said) you always got something. You always had something to resell, trade, collect and that hobby aspect combined with the gambling nature is fun to me.

It may toe the line, but as long as you are getting something and getting whatever "guarantee" per box - it is still a product, more so than a lottery.
I don't know if this matters - but to me the fact that the consumer can effect the price also makes it seem more like a product. Unlike a lotto - if the perceived value of the "product" is much lower than the MSRP people will refrain from buying it and in a few months it can be had for cheaper (and closer to it's actual "worth").
I can't buy a few $2 scratch off's (or see other's results doing so) and think it's probably not worth it.....but if they come down to .50 cents I'll buy a couple.

 

[masonphillip]

California Penal Code 319.3

(a) In addition to Section 319, a lottery also shall include
a grab bag game which is a scheme whereby, for the disposal or
distribution of sports trading cards by chance, a person pays
valuable consideration to purchase a sports trading card grab bag
with the understanding that the purchaser has a chance to win a
designated prize or prizes listed by the seller as being contained in
one or more, but not all, of the grab bags.

The way I read this (and I'm no lawyer) would indicate to me that what they are trying to prevent here would be something like a card company saying:

"we are going to distributed xx packs of this product, one of those packs contains a Honus Wagner RC, the rest of them contain commons worth nothing."

In the case of Razor, every pack provided some value...although Brian stated what the big hit was, it wasn't just a chase after one prize, there were other valuable cards included and each pack contained a card (PSA 7 or above) that was worth something, there is some degree of collectability in every pack.

I could be wrong but it seems open for interpretation.

That does bring to mind something else though. I recall a few years back when Wal Mart had a chase product like this and the grand prize was the Honus Wagner card. It seems like if lawsuits over "grab-bag" status didn't happen then (with larger distribution and Wal-Marts extremely deep pockets) I would think companies like Razor and Tristar would be in the clear now. I'm sure Wal-Mart did their checking when distributing such a product.

 

[notjomommasclint]

at least we keep our focus on making the hobby fun and light. anyone who would sue over something like this is a grade a ****** bag. bringing it up pretty much serves no purpose to the hobby and is the equal to you flashing your super awesome lawyer skills and super fantastic larger than life intelligence! i got a grab bag for you! located somewhere south of my belt buckle.

 

[Tomlinson21RB]

Re: For what it's worth, this is also a grab bag...

[quote="Jeff N.":n2ujuk7r]

[quote="Jeff N.":n2ujuk7r]The million card giveaway is a sweepstakes, but it's not enticing you to buy the product. If you were going to throw away the cards and only hunt for the million card giveaway, perhaps. To put it in a scenario that most of the guys here can understand, it's like Monopoly at McDonalds. You're not going to throw away the delectable royale with cheese and greasefries to play Monopoly - it's an added bonus.

A lottery is a game of chance where you pay your money in the hope for a grand prize. In this situation, the Ruth ball. Sure, you may get something lesser (i.e a $5 winning ticket vs. a David Justice ball), but you want the grand prize.

Please help me understand how your definition of a lottery could not be applied to busting a box of cards?

I read a case on this years ago. The cards are defines as the collectable that you're keeping and buying, and the Million Card giveaway is the bonus. You're buying a collectable set of baseball cards. Not a grab bag.

I thought the No Purchase Necessary was put on packs to avoid the lottery/gambling aspect? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's both. Just remember reading that at one point.[/quote:n2ujuk7r]

NPNs are available on any type of sweepstakes. I believe -and don't hold me to it - that it's illegal to compel the purchase of a product to enter a sweepstakes - therefore, there are NPNs to enter sweepstakes of baseball cards, to get free McDonalds Monopoly pieces, etc.[/quote:n2ujuk7r]

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.