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I've opened up a huge can of worms here. Haha. I got like seven people asking me for cards. I'll have to look through the personal collection. I'll definitely let you know if I find these.
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Griffey Collector's Thread
- Thread starter LaneyB
- Start date
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brinn1
New member
FAKE BUYBACK GRIFFEY ROOKIE CARDS
Just to report, I have written every seller who has had a card up which was fake according to Roy's work with numbers and holograms.
Most sellers, including one today, removed their cards from sale and are trying to reach upper deck (good luck).
I am also still waiting for my check from Beckett. After all these months, I wrote a more agressive letter, and was told how great a company Beckett is and how long they have been in business (25 years) and of course I would receive my compensation. That was 7 days ago- still no check. After I do receive the money, I will publish some of these emails from them, showing blatant arrogance and telling me to "enjoy PSA" etc.
I will also re-post the scans of the Beckett authorized fake card.
Beckett's whole rep is built on trust, and I would think they would be responsive to a very high end card of a well known player being authenticated by their company even though it was fraudulent. Actually, they care a little, very little, but not a lot. But they have my card (which I had to return first) and I have nothing.
Also I have written the following letter to ebay after several reports to security of fraudulent listing of these cards
Help Contact Us Next Gen > Contacting eBay Customer Support
Message: regarding item 180396868235
KEN GRIFFEY JR AUTO /89 ROOKIE BUY BACK 2009 UPPER DECK
There have been many, many of these fake cards on ebay.
A Griffey forum exists where one older Griffey collector, has actually listed the hologram numbers for the real and fake cards in this series.
This is the browser address for you to access the list of real hologram numbers- every one of these is in sequence and has a COA. The fake ones like the listing above are not sold with COA's.
browser address http://cardinformant.com/messageboards/ ... c=17.msg87
When I wrote the seller and got the hologram number, it was not real and not in the sequence for authentic cards.
I have reported every fake card and written every seller I could since learning of the problem. I actually bought one off ebay before I knew of the problem. Lucky for me, it had been wrongly authenticated by Beckett, and since they had in error, authenticated a fake card, they have agreed to reimburse me. But most buyers will just get a worthess fake for next to $1000.
The security report I filed several times does not give me enough room to explain all this so I am writing it to you.
As a power seller and a Griffey collector, the many, many fakes of this particular card is disturbing to all of us and ebay has been alerted several times.
Yes you post a disclaimer that a buyer should look for authentication. But a new collector, thinks he /she has this when the seller is saying that the hologram is on the card, (the auction usually only shows the front of the card like the one above while the hologram is on the back) and most new buyers are not going to be aware that there is a sequencing of numbers which would easily tell them the card is real or fake.
If even I, an experienced long time collector, can be fooled (before the sequencing was done ) and Beckett can even authenticate a fake card, the normal everyday collector / buyer has no chance to sort it out.
All ebay would have to do, is with this card only, (with so many fraudulent cards for sale, and it selling for such a large amount) is simply disallow any sales of this card which do not have a separate COA card (2 cards) displayed with scans of the hologram number or at least the seller giving the number in the description. If the card does not have a COA, it is almost always fake and the hologram number will not correspond to the "real" cards.
This seems relatively easy for ebay to do and will protect many buyers and will only help your image. Your current policy which allows these dozens of fakes to be sold, is only leading to unaware buyers getting taken for big sums of money.
I might add that in most cases the sellers are defensive, because they also bought the card and were "taken" thinking they could resell it on ebay, not knowing about the legit list of hologram numbers. That's true, but to allow them to resell it to another unsuspecting buyer when ebay and the high end Griffey collectors and Upper Deck is aware of which are real and which are not, is a sham. Ebay should protect these buyers and its easy enough in this case to do so.
The group of high end Griffey buyers (about 25 in all) are watching to see what Ebay and Upper Deck will do to stop buyers from buying the multitde of fakes available on ebay.
Hopefully more than saying "its up to the buyer to check or research it" as thanks to Upper Deck and its unwillingness to publish these numbers, the average buyer can not research the card and is told by the seller there is a hologram number on the back of the card (lifted from any other random Upper Deck Card).
If I personally can be of any further help in helping ebay to pursue its options and protect these buyers, please let me know. I can be reached by cell phone (513 number given) at any time and am a pediatrician (doctor caring for children) in the Cincinnati, Ohio area.
Thanks
Dr. Steve Brinn
Just to report, I have written every seller who has had a card up which was fake according to Roy's work with numbers and holograms.
Most sellers, including one today, removed their cards from sale and are trying to reach upper deck (good luck).
I am also still waiting for my check from Beckett. After all these months, I wrote a more agressive letter, and was told how great a company Beckett is and how long they have been in business (25 years) and of course I would receive my compensation. That was 7 days ago- still no check. After I do receive the money, I will publish some of these emails from them, showing blatant arrogance and telling me to "enjoy PSA" etc.
I will also re-post the scans of the Beckett authorized fake card.
Beckett's whole rep is built on trust, and I would think they would be responsive to a very high end card of a well known player being authenticated by their company even though it was fraudulent. Actually, they care a little, very little, but not a lot. But they have my card (which I had to return first) and I have nothing.
Also I have written the following letter to ebay after several reports to security of fraudulent listing of these cards
Help Contact Us Next Gen > Contacting eBay Customer Support
Message: regarding item 180396868235
KEN GRIFFEY JR AUTO /89 ROOKIE BUY BACK 2009 UPPER DECK
There have been many, many of these fake cards on ebay.
A Griffey forum exists where one older Griffey collector, has actually listed the hologram numbers for the real and fake cards in this series.
This is the browser address for you to access the list of real hologram numbers- every one of these is in sequence and has a COA. The fake ones like the listing above are not sold with COA's.
browser address http://cardinformant.com/messageboards/ ... c=17.msg87
When I wrote the seller and got the hologram number, it was not real and not in the sequence for authentic cards.
I have reported every fake card and written every seller I could since learning of the problem. I actually bought one off ebay before I knew of the problem. Lucky for me, it had been wrongly authenticated by Beckett, and since they had in error, authenticated a fake card, they have agreed to reimburse me. But most buyers will just get a worthess fake for next to $1000.
The security report I filed several times does not give me enough room to explain all this so I am writing it to you.
As a power seller and a Griffey collector, the many, many fakes of this particular card is disturbing to all of us and ebay has been alerted several times.
Yes you post a disclaimer that a buyer should look for authentication. But a new collector, thinks he /she has this when the seller is saying that the hologram is on the card, (the auction usually only shows the front of the card like the one above while the hologram is on the back) and most new buyers are not going to be aware that there is a sequencing of numbers which would easily tell them the card is real or fake.
If even I, an experienced long time collector, can be fooled (before the sequencing was done ) and Beckett can even authenticate a fake card, the normal everyday collector / buyer has no chance to sort it out.
All ebay would have to do, is with this card only, (with so many fraudulent cards for sale, and it selling for such a large amount) is simply disallow any sales of this card which do not have a separate COA card (2 cards) displayed with scans of the hologram number or at least the seller giving the number in the description. If the card does not have a COA, it is almost always fake and the hologram number will not correspond to the "real" cards.
This seems relatively easy for ebay to do and will protect many buyers and will only help your image. Your current policy which allows these dozens of fakes to be sold, is only leading to unaware buyers getting taken for big sums of money.
I might add that in most cases the sellers are defensive, because they also bought the card and were "taken" thinking they could resell it on ebay, not knowing about the legit list of hologram numbers. That's true, but to allow them to resell it to another unsuspecting buyer when ebay and the high end Griffey collectors and Upper Deck is aware of which are real and which are not, is a sham. Ebay should protect these buyers and its easy enough in this case to do so.
The group of high end Griffey buyers (about 25 in all) are watching to see what Ebay and Upper Deck will do to stop buyers from buying the multitde of fakes available on ebay.
Hopefully more than saying "its up to the buyer to check or research it" as thanks to Upper Deck and its unwillingness to publish these numbers, the average buyer can not research the card and is told by the seller there is a hologram number on the back of the card (lifted from any other random Upper Deck Card).
If I personally can be of any further help in helping ebay to pursue its options and protect these buyers, please let me know. I can be reached by cell phone (513 number given) at any time and am a pediatrician (doctor caring for children) in the Cincinnati, Ohio area.
Thanks
Dr. Steve Brinn
Roy Birchler
New member
Steve,
I hope that you can keep up the fight, but if UD and Ebay won't help there is little use. I spent about a year and a half fighting this fight in 2003 & 2004. Buybacks will always be a problem unless the card companys and Ebay want to solve it. Ebay needs to require a COA for all autoraphs and the card companys need to put hologram numbers into a database that collectors can access. But they have no incentive to work on the problem.
I hope that you can keep up the fight, but if UD and Ebay won't help there is little use. I spent about a year and a half fighting this fight in 2003 & 2004. Buybacks will always be a problem unless the card companys and Ebay want to solve it. Ebay needs to require a COA for all autoraphs and the card companys need to put hologram numbers into a database that collectors can access. But they have no incentive to work on the problem.
magicpapa
Well-known member
- Aug 7, 2008
- 10,386
- 1,958
magicpapa said:
well i emailed the seller asking what happened to the auction, got this reply
"I have one more if you are interested # 48/89 Same exact card I will let you have for $800.00 Let me know Paul" ::facepalm::
Be8el0ve
Active member
ballcardzdotcom
New member
<--- Jealous! Nice pull!
Roy Birchler
New member
These guys have found easy money.
Here is 29/89 that listed a few days ago.
[ebay:l67vfd20]180396868235[/ebay:l67vfd20]
Here is 2/89 that was listed tonight, notice the location of the 2 auctions.
[ebay:l67vfd20]180397500290[/ebay:l67vfd20]
Now there are 2 different 2/89
Here is 29/89 that listed a few days ago.
[ebay:l67vfd20]180396868235[/ebay:l67vfd20]
Here is 2/89 that was listed tonight, notice the location of the 2 auctions.
[ebay:l67vfd20]180397500290[/ebay:l67vfd20]
Now there are 2 different 2/89
ballcardzdotcom
New member
This is absolutely rediculous! Why won't eBay do something about this? It's a MORE THAN OBVIOUS FAKE!
brinn1
New member
LOGO THREADS 1/1 2004
Just for your information , i was lucky enough to obtain my third of eight 1/1 logo thread cards from 2004. 4 were released for Griffey with patch only and 4 were released with auto, logo of mlb and patch, total of 8. My recent edition in today's mail is the 2004 ALTD-KG1 card with MLB patch, Seattle Mariners patch and Blue ink Griffey Auto. There is a picture of Griffey jr in front right with Mariners Hat on. I have the same card with picture of Griffey with Reds hat (and interesting enough, the same Mariners patch - must of run out of Reds patches) My third card in the set is a 1/1 Griffey Patch only card with Reds Uniform. When I get home and can scan all 3 of them together I will post them. If anyone here as access to or knows someone with one of the other 5 of 8 2004 Griffey Logo patch auto or logo patch only cards, please pm me or email me at [email protected]..
So in 2004, 8 cards with "LOGO THREAD" Griffey releases were made. 4 with MLB patches and autos (2 of those Mariners and 2 of those Reds) and 4 with Patch only 1/1 (2 with Mariners and 2 with Reds). In all a total of 8 1/1 cards, 4 auto'd and 4 not. All 1/1. I now have 3 of those and would love to obtain any of the remaining 5 for my collection.
Thanks
Look for 3 cards posted tonite, very cool, blue backrounds, I posted the 2 of them way back. When I scan them, I'll add them to links for the forum as well for John
S
Just for your information , i was lucky enough to obtain my third of eight 1/1 logo thread cards from 2004. 4 were released for Griffey with patch only and 4 were released with auto, logo of mlb and patch, total of 8. My recent edition in today's mail is the 2004 ALTD-KG1 card with MLB patch, Seattle Mariners patch and Blue ink Griffey Auto. There is a picture of Griffey jr in front right with Mariners Hat on. I have the same card with picture of Griffey with Reds hat (and interesting enough, the same Mariners patch - must of run out of Reds patches) My third card in the set is a 1/1 Griffey Patch only card with Reds Uniform. When I get home and can scan all 3 of them together I will post them. If anyone here as access to or knows someone with one of the other 5 of 8 2004 Griffey Logo patch auto or logo patch only cards, please pm me or email me at [email protected]..
So in 2004, 8 cards with "LOGO THREAD" Griffey releases were made. 4 with MLB patches and autos (2 of those Mariners and 2 of those Reds) and 4 with Patch only 1/1 (2 with Mariners and 2 with Reds). In all a total of 8 1/1 cards, 4 auto'd and 4 not. All 1/1. I now have 3 of those and would love to obtain any of the remaining 5 for my collection.
Thanks
Look for 3 cards posted tonite, very cool, blue backrounds, I posted the 2 of them way back. When I scan them, I'll add them to links for the forum as well for John
S
brinn1
New member
I have written and talked to Ebay, UD and Beckett at length. I have explained to ebay exactly how easy it would be for them to know the fakes from the real ones. They have no interest in doing anything. I even suggested simply not allowing auctions for these cards with out COA's which would make it very easy for them. But they won't do anything and the poor naive Collector who doesn't read this forum or deal with other high end Collectors suffers in the end. I have also had 2 cards pulled by the sellers after explaining the situation and giving them Roy's links. They weren't happpy but did the right thing.
Beckett has yet to send my check. Attornies will be next. Between UD, ebay and Beckett, NO ONE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT GETTING THE FAKES OFF THE MARKET. REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.
Steve B
redsoxfan2510
New member
first off let me say that this thread is AWESOME and you guys all have amazing collections! i use to collect griffey when i first got into the hobby (just base cards and inserts) until it got way too expensive for me- since then i have been looking for an auto and a rookie card...figured this would be the best place to post it...please pm me if anything is available! thanks guys and keep up the good work!
I am very interested in seeing a scan of the BGS Griffey fake. This is the first time i heard that BGS authenticated one of these fake Griffey buybacks and it is very disturbing to hear, that they have not as of yet, reimbursed the buyer of said fake BGS card. :shock:
brinn1
New member
SPEAKING OF SELLERS PULLING FAKE GRIFFEY CARDS
This is an email I received from a seller who willingly pulled a fake Griffey jr auto buyback card after an explanation of what he was selling. It also contains my response to him. Anyone with any other thoughts to help him out, please write to him directly thru ebay
To: ez4uprosthetics
From: brinn1
Q: Hello again, you wrote me about the "fake" Ken Griffey Jr Rookie Auto 2009 I took your advice and removed it. I need some kind of proof to send to paypal to try and get my money back since the two sellers I have purchased them from will not give me my money back. I deleted the email and was wondering what the web site was again that you gave me concerning this card. I was also wondering is there any other way to prove they are fake, maybe send to beckett, thanks for your time Paul
Hi, You did the right thing first of all, not passing on your troubles to another innocent buyer, a lot of sellers aren't so understanding about that. I don't know how the rest will go. Ebay, UD and Beckett have been horrible in this situation for everyone to deal with. None wants to take responsibility and ebay doesn't even want to pull the auctions. Beckett would be involved ONLY if the card was authenticated by Beckett as in my case. Upper Deck should have to answer and I would nag them to the end if it meant calling everyday. They can't ignore the problem, they have to take some responsibility, they haven't yet. I would not count on paypal to help you but try anyway. Remember paypal is a bank, they do not get into authentication of collectables. If you talk to paypal and they are willing to talk with me to explain, I will gladly do so on your behalf cell phone is 513 *** ****. They can call me. The forum is a group of Griffey Collectors, a lot of them high end collectors, a couple who were instrumental in determining the sequence of fake and real cards. This thread page has the list of fakes and real cards if you want to approach paypal or whoever. Any help I can provide, let me know
Steve B
This is an email I received from a seller who willingly pulled a fake Griffey jr auto buyback card after an explanation of what he was selling. It also contains my response to him. Anyone with any other thoughts to help him out, please write to him directly thru ebay
To: ez4uprosthetics
From: brinn1
Q: Hello again, you wrote me about the "fake" Ken Griffey Jr Rookie Auto 2009 I took your advice and removed it. I need some kind of proof to send to paypal to try and get my money back since the two sellers I have purchased them from will not give me my money back. I deleted the email and was wondering what the web site was again that you gave me concerning this card. I was also wondering is there any other way to prove they are fake, maybe send to beckett, thanks for your time Paul
Hi, You did the right thing first of all, not passing on your troubles to another innocent buyer, a lot of sellers aren't so understanding about that. I don't know how the rest will go. Ebay, UD and Beckett have been horrible in this situation for everyone to deal with. None wants to take responsibility and ebay doesn't even want to pull the auctions. Beckett would be involved ONLY if the card was authenticated by Beckett as in my case. Upper Deck should have to answer and I would nag them to the end if it meant calling everyday. They can't ignore the problem, they have to take some responsibility, they haven't yet. I would not count on paypal to help you but try anyway. Remember paypal is a bank, they do not get into authentication of collectables. If you talk to paypal and they are willing to talk with me to explain, I will gladly do so on your behalf cell phone is 513 *** ****. They can call me. The forum is a group of Griffey Collectors, a lot of them high end collectors, a couple who were instrumental in determining the sequence of fake and real cards. This thread page has the list of fakes and real cards if you want to approach paypal or whoever. Any help I can provide, let me know
Steve B
brinn1
New member
GRIFFEY RC CARDAUTO BUYBACK BECKETT AUTHENTICATED SCAN
Well, part of our "deal" was I keep all secret, but they way they have acted toward my predicament, I have no problem with sharing that scan again with everyone. I'd like to get my money back first, not giving them another reason to hold it. But after that...............................
Well, part of our "deal" was I keep all secret, but they way they have acted toward my predicament, I have no problem with sharing that scan again with everyone. I'd like to get my money back first, not giving them another reason to hold it. But after that...............................
Thought I would share this with you. I just picked up the McGwire off ebay from the same seller.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEN-GRIFFEY-JR-...ards?hash=item5ad2a2b7f1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEN-GRIFFEY-JR-...ards?hash=item5ad2a2b7f1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
brinn1
New member
THREE OF EIGHT 1/1 2004 GRIFFEY LOGO THREADS
Well folks, here are the three of eight 1/1 logo thread cards from 2004. Again any help getting any other of the 5 needed would be appreciated
Well folks, here are the three of eight 1/1 logo thread cards from 2004. Again any help getting any other of the 5 needed would be appreciated
soxfan33
Member
- Aug 7, 2008
- 561
- 1
Re: THREE OF EIGHT 1/1 2004 GRIFFEY LOGO THREADS
WOW! VERY nice!!!
brinn1 said:Well folks, here are the three of eight 1/1 logo thread cards from 2004. Again any help getting any other of the 5 needed would be appreciated
WOW! VERY nice!!!
Jack Straw
Active member
Very impressive! Love that shot of Griffey throwing .
ballcardzdotcom
New member
THOSE ARE SICK!!!
