- Thread starter
- #21
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
It doesn't matter what his "story" is. Just watching him play, you can tell he IS on the same par as Griffey, talent wise. And seriously? Harper? REALLY?
Welcome to our community
Be apart of something great, join today!
HOF debate: Josh Hamilton
- Thread starter markakis8
- Start date
Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
It doesn't matter what his "story" is. Just watching him play, you can tell he IS on the same par as Griffey, talent wise. And seriously? Harper? REALLY?
scotty216brs
Active member
I don't care what anyone says, it's a 'no'.
He has only played ONE full season to date. And you expect him to play 7+ more years? Ha. Is he a fantastic hitter who probably will receive HOF votes? Yep. Will he be a HOF'er? No chance.
He has only played ONE full season to date. And you expect him to play 7+ more years? Ha. Is he a fantastic hitter who probably will receive HOF votes? Yep. Will he be a HOF'er? No chance.
- Thread starter
- #24
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
The fact that five members whose opinions I respect (not necessarily agree with all the time) posted in this thread let's me know that there is a glimmer of hope.
Roogy
New member
By the time his career is over, he'll be an easy HOF'er. Is he now? No. But when all is said and done, yes. This guy could have been one of the greatest to ever don a uniform if not for his drug and alcohol addiction. He is "The Natural." From a talent point of view, hard to argue many being better.
Jeff D
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 762
- 0
Of course he has a chance. But your assumptions for the basis of this discussion are wildly speculative and not especially meaningful. Added to your incredibly inflated opinion of him (as shown by claiming he's undoubtably the most talented player in all of MLB, and head and shoulders above Braun and Kemp) and what you have is people simply humoring you. I'll do the same...
If he wins the triple crown (something no one has done in over 40 years) and the MVP (about 5 months from now) and wins the WS (with around 130 games before the playoffs even start) and then goes to produce your numbers for the next 7 years (which he has accomplished in exactly ONE full season of his MLB career)...then sure, he has about a 38% chance of making the HOF.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #27
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
Just one question, when it comes to five tools, you don't think Hamilton is above and beyond, better than Kemp and Braun?
Jeff D
Member
- Mar 28, 2009
- 762
- 0
I think it's clear I don't. As purely ONE example, Braun had 33 stolen bases last year. That is 5 less than Hamilton has had in his entire MLB career (including this year). The most stolen bases Hamilton has ever had in a season is 9. Base running is one of the five tools, right?
Last edited:
Right or wrong, this is what gets him in.
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
I agree.
If Hamilton has a productive career that lasts the next 6 or 7 years at a high level of play his current talent dictates that he 'could', and he accumulates some of the accolades mentioned earlier in this thread, his 'come back' story will only hold weight in my opinion.
ChasHawk
New member
- Thread starter
- #32
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
No speed is, not base running. I would argue that Hamilton is just as fast as Braun. Who knows who is faster but I'm sure whoever is, there isn't that much of a difference. The Rangers offense does not call for stolen bases from Hamilton, therefore he doesn't.
I would think that if Josh was on the Brewers in place of Braun he would be fully capable of stealing 30 bases as well. In fact, I have no doubt.
- Thread starter
- #33
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
In terms of production, no, not yet. In terms of talent, yes, he is.
ChasHawk
New member
Hamilton does not have Griffey's talent...period.
And I would easily take the under on Hamilton stealing 30, unless he attempted 100.
And I would easily take the under on Hamilton stealing 30, unless he attempted 100.
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
Not that I am all out disagreeing with you, but to say as you have above it seems that it should be pretty clear cut, so aside from longevity (which I do think is a viable measurement for talent as well), what skill set(s) do you think Griffey clearly excelled over Hamilton to validate your statement?
- Thread starter
- #36
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
I'm sorry Charlie, than you just don't recognize the talent Hamilton has. Maybe you are sidetracked by Griffey's gaudy numbers but Hamilton is just as talented as Griffey. I would give Griffey an edge at defense, but would take Hamilton as a hitter. But both are elite players offensively and defensively and will be talked about for years to come in terms of history of the game.
ChasHawk
New member
Junior - 7 seasons of 40+ HRs...including 2 years in a row hitting 56.
Hamilton - zero
Junior - 8 seasons of 100+ RBI, including 2 seaons over 140.
Hamilton - 2
Junior - 6 seasons with an OPS+ of 150 or higher.
Hamilton - 1
Junior - 10 seasons of double digit stolen bases.
Hamilton - zero
And in Griffey's prime, there is no debate who the better fielder was.
Hamilton will be remembered more because he was an addict.
Hamilton - zero
Junior - 8 seasons of 100+ RBI, including 2 seaons over 140.
Hamilton - 2
Junior - 6 seasons with an OPS+ of 150 or higher.
Hamilton - 1
Junior - 10 seasons of double digit stolen bases.
Hamilton - zero
And in Griffey's prime, there is no debate who the better fielder was.
Hamilton will be remembered more because he was an addict.
- Thread starter
- #38
markakis8
Active member
- Oct 31, 2008
- 12,081
- 2
Ok well one, you are posting completed career numbers for Griffey. I could say hey Fred McGriff had 10 30 HR seasons and Matt Kemp has 1.
And second, you are just going by production. I understand it can be difficult to separate the two and I understand that FINAL production is the key component in terms of comparing players but there aren't many people that understand baseball talent that would argue a difference between Griffey and Hamilton OVERALL
matfanofold
Active member
- Aug 10, 2008
- 7,645
- 1
Aside from the defensive statement that is mostly opinion, one I agree with actually, is not everything else you state just a matter of longevity? Something Hamilton can still achieve? I mean stating someone is 'clearly more talented' should be something one could back up with something other than milestones, especially when the guy you say he is clearly better than has yet to play long enough to rightfully compare.
ChasHawk
New member
Regardless of longevity, I don't see Hamilton having 5 more seasons of a 150 or higher OPS+
Or multiple 40 homer seasons, or double digit steals.
If he plays off his ass, he might be able to have 6 more seaons of 100+ RBI...maybe.
Career totals come though longevity. In season achievements do not.
And Carl - where am I posting completed career numbers for Griffey?
EVERYTHING I posted above, Griffey achieved by the age of 30.
Or multiple 40 homer seasons, or double digit steals.
If he plays off his ass, he might be able to have 6 more seaons of 100+ RBI...maybe.
Career totals come though longevity. In season achievements do not.
And Carl - where am I posting completed career numbers for Griffey?
EVERYTHING I posted above, Griffey achieved by the age of 30.
