If they retire today...who makes the HOF?

[MojoDan]

I dont think Schilling gets in...

I have gone back and forth with Schilling...he is very borderline, but I always go back to those games he pitched when it was do or die and how big he was, especially in the playoffs.....and his numbers are decent enough....and he was just nasty with the Phillies...tough call...

Pedro I dont think will make it...his numbers were great in the beginning...but lately he hasnt done much of anything and I dont think his numbers are good enough and consistent over the length of the career to get him in.....he is another iffy one...

TK

Dont get me wrong, I would like to see him in, especially in a Boston hat

 

[crowhop]

Thome not in the HOF because he was a DH is just plain dumb. He hit 500 HR's and he also played 1B you know. It is not like he was a DH his whole career.

Yea, I'm not a moron. And 500 HRs don't mean jack anymore. I don't think hes a HOF, I don't think he was ever one of the elite players in the game. And if there was no DH he wouldn't have reached 500 HRs and wouldn't have gotten a WS ring. Sorry, just don't think he or his numbers stand out in a highly doubted Steroid Era.

I don't think Schilling deserves it either.

i agree with thefasterblade on this one. Thome has never been "elite".

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

Thome not in the HOF because he was a DH is just plain dumb. He hit 500 HR's and he also played 1B you know. It is not like he was a DH his whole career.

Yea, I'm not a moron. And 500 HRs don't mean jack anymore. I don't think hes a HOF, I don't think he was ever one of the elite players in the game. And if there was no DH he wouldn't have reached 500 HRs and wouldn't have gotten a WS ring. Sorry, just don't think he or his numbers stand out in a highly doubted Steroid Era.

I don't think Schilling deserves it either.

I dont think you are a moron!!! You make valid points, but part of the game of baseball is the DH and he got to 500 HRs....he has never been linked to steroids either, so until it comes out otherwise, that argument is off the table. But you are correct, guys like Sheffield, Thome, Edgar Martinez, etc. would not have done anything without the DH--even Frank Thomas the last few years...but the way I see it, DH is part of the game and 500 HRs is still the mark set by fans, writers, etc....

TK

 

[jbone17]

And Joe Gordon deserves to get in why? And Don Mattingly doesn't even get votes why? Jim Thome hit 500 HR's. They made a card for him and guess what! In that set has HOF's! Guess what else! Was Thome ever accused of steroids? Um....nah! Thome is a HOF and he played the game with pride to. He will not be first ballot, but he will be in.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

I dont think Schilling gets in...

I have gone back and forth with Schilling...he is very borderline, but I always go back to those games he pitched when it was do or die and how big he was, especially in the playoffs.....and his numbers are decent enough....and he was just nasty with the Phillies...tough call...

Pedro I dont think will make it...his numbers were great in the beginning...but lately he hasnt done much of anything and I dont think his numbers are good enough and consistent over the length of the career to get him in.....he is another iffy one...

TK

Dont get me wrong, I would like to see him in, especially in a Boston hat

I am pretty sure that is the one he would be wearing...

TK

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

Here is my list...I am sure some of these controversial...but so is Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, etc...

More than likely in like Flint
Griffey
Frank Thomas
Thome
Manny Ramirez
Vladdy
Greg Maddux--now retired
Randy Johnson
Curt Schilling
Tom Glavine
John Smoltz
Alex Rodriguez
Derek Jeter
Trevor Hoffman
Ivan Rodriguez
Craig Biggio--now retired
Mariano Rivera
Chipper Jones
Mike Piazza--Now Retired
Ichiro--In right now if they decide to include his Japan numbers--if not put him right under Pujols


These guys are probably very close already--but may need a bit more or may just miss
Albert Pujols--just needs a couple more good years
Adam Dunn
Jim Edmonds
Gary Sheffield--surprising just how good his power numbers stack up
Jeff Bagwell---now retired
Roy Halladay
Johan Santana
Francisco Rodriguez
Jake Peavy
Andy Pettite
David Wright
Miguel Cabrera
CC Sabathia
Mike Mussina
Brandon Webb
Scott Rolen--last few years have hurt him greatly
Jeff Kent--should have the numbers for a 2Bman
Omar Vizquel
Carlos Delgago
Hanley Ramirez
David Ortiz
Lance Berkman
Pedro Martinez---See Scott Rolen
Justin Morneau---See Sheffield--just great numbers
Derek Lee
Mark Teixeira


Guys on the Right Track
Jose Reyes
Jimmy Rollins
Ryan Braun
Evan Longoria
Tim Lincecum
Michael Young
Ryan Howard
Prince Fielder
Joe Mauer
Ian Kinsler



Now, who did I omit or leave out because I am sure there is someone...

TK

awesome list. i agree with most all of them.

of course, i am going to comment on the ones i don't. haha...
Pedro is a lock is a lock is a lock.

Adam Dunn would need to break 700 to get into the HOF. even then, he wouldn't be a lock.

you are right on Thome getting in. but i don't think he should.
of course i don't Rice should have and i don't think Dawson should even be on the ballot. so of course he'll be a 90% guy

you have far too many guys on the "probably very close already" list as i think a lot of them should be on the "on the right track" list.

awesome list either way though.

THANK YOU!!! And you are right, but I was trying to get a pretty complete list because someone somewhere can make a point for all of them.....I dont think half of the ones on the probably and right track list will make it....but you never know...

TK

 

[thefasterblade]

I know that the DH revived Thomas' career and he reached 500 HRs because of it also, but Thomas was likely Hall bound before it. His stats in the early 90s are completely eye popping and he won two MVPs.

I never said Thome did steroids, but he was compiling large HR totals in a time where 50 HRs was no longer unusual. I just don't think what he did stands out to be HOF.

 

[leatherman]

Regardless of his position with the DH or not...he had 500 HRs and that gets him in, end of story. Until they deem that 500 HRs isnt enough, everyone who gets to it is in...

Feats like 500 HR, 1,500+ RBI, 3000 Hits, 300 Wins, 3000Ks, etc....that gets you in and even with the gaudy numbers being put up today--those numbers are still VERY hard to reach.

TK

3701 Ks won't even get you in, apparently.

With 13 of the 25 (counting Sheffield even though he has 499) 500 Home Run hitters hitting that milestone in the 80s, 90s, or 00s, it just doesn't mean what it used to. I believe we will see more and more 500 Home Run hitters waiting (and waiting) for the HOF in the next 50 years.

300 wins will still be an automatic ticket.

David

 

[pujolsjunkie]

I don't think 500 HR is an automatic HOF nod anymore.

My opinion is that players that were not among the best of the best in their generation should not be put in. I weigh Jim Rice's 382 HR more heavily than Thome's 541. By all means, laugh that off, but Rice was one of the best hitters of his era, and had more of a case to get in than JT. I see a big list like the one above and just feel there are way too many names. Thomas clearly gets the nod over Thome to me also.

By the way, Pedro could not be more of a lock for the HOF. He will get in first-ballot with no question.

 

[jbone17]

I agree on that totally because we may never see another 300 game winner for a while. With big contracts and this concept of limited innings, Randy Johnson may be the last one to accomplish 300 wins.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

Here is my argument for the 500HRs.........

Besides players that have 100% been linked to Steroid use, please tell me who has NOT made the HOF that has 500HRs......until that changes and there are players that have hit 500 HRs and not gotten in, I say 500 HRs is a lock.


leatherman--Good stuff, and I think as of right now Blyleven is getting robbed, because if he pitched the last couple of years and put up the numbers he did, he would have been the most dominating pitcher........he is hurt because he pitched in an era with Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, etc........but I thin eventually like Rice, he should get in. The good news for Blyleven, is that the 62+% he received this year is the highest he has ever gotten since being on the ballot in 1998. Based on that it appears Dawson will go as well as he had 67%...


TK


TK

 

[crowhop]

I agree on that totally because we may never see another 300 game winner for a while. With big contracts and this concept of limited innings, Randy Johnson may be the last one to accomplish 300 wins.

SI wrote a huge article about the likelyhood of 300 win pitchers disappearing in the late 60s. 300 win pitchers won't vanish.
that being said, 200 wins will mean a lot more as time goes on.

 

[KOBEARODLT]

Thome not in the HOF because he was a DH is just plain dumb. He hit 500 HR's and he also played 1B you know. It is not like he was a DH his whole career.

Yea, I'm not a moron. And 500 HRs don't mean jack anymore. I don't think hes a HOF, I don't think he was ever one of the elite players in the game. And if there was no DH he wouldn't have reached 500 HRs and wouldn't have gotten a WS ring. Sorry, just don't think he or his numbers stand out in a highly doubted Steroid Era.

I don't think Schilling deserves it either.

i agree with thefasterblade on this one. Thome has never been "elite".

and many people may not want to agree with this but.....he was most likely on the juice just as everyone else in this era was....and if mcgwire and all the rest are not voted in thome shouldnt be either.

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

Thome not in the HOF because he was a DH is just plain dumb. He hit 500 HR's and he also played 1B you know. It is not like he was a DH his whole career.

Yea, I'm not a moron. And 500 HRs don't mean jack anymore. I don't think hes a HOF, I don't think he was ever one of the elite players in the game. And if there was no DH he wouldn't have reached 500 HRs and wouldn't have gotten a WS ring. Sorry, just don't think he or his numbers stand out in a highly doubted Steroid Era.

I don't think Schilling deserves it either.

i agree with thefasterblade on this one. Thome has never been "elite".

and many people may not want to agree with this but.....he was most likely on the juice just as everyone else in this era was....and if mcgwire and all the rest are not voted in thome shouldnt be either.

I have to be honest, I personally know Jim Thome and his entire family---I can tell you 99.9% positive that he is and never was on the juice or any banned substance from baseball. But it is the American way to assume guilty until proven innocent...

TK

 

[Pete14Rose]

As many homers as Thome may hit, I really don't think he deserves to be in the HOF.

If not for the DH spot on the AL, his career would have likely ended about 4 years ago and he wouldn't have reached the lofty home run totals that he did. Its just another example as to why they should do away with the DH spot.

Paul Molitor was a DH for nearly half of his career. Played 21 seasons, is 9th on the All-Time Hits list with 3,319. and is in the HOF on 85.2% of the votes.


Don't discount the DH. Yes, it does help some guys prolong their careers. But some guy who might not have the legs to play a position still have a great bat to contribute. Molitor proved that.

 

[Pete14Rose]

As many homers as Thome may hit, I really don't think he deserves to be in the HOF.

If not for the DH spot on the AL, his career would have likely ended about 4 years ago and he wouldn't have reached the lofty home run totals that he did. Its just another example as to why they should do away with the DH spot.

Regardless of his position with the DH or not...he had 500 HRs and that gets him in, end of story. Until they deem that 500 HRs isnt enough, everyone who gets to it is in...

Feats like 500 HR, 1,500+ RBI, 3000 Hits, 300 Wins, 3000Ks, etc....that gets you in and even with the gaudy numbers being put up today--those numbers are still VERY hard to reach.

TK

Exactly. Those numbers are still the standard and will get you in. Look at Biggio. Without 3000 hits he is NOT a HOF'er. But the 3000 hits gets him in, 1st ballot.

 

[Pete14Rose]

Regardless of his position with the DH or not...he had 500 HRs and that gets him in, end of story. Until they deem that 500 HRs isnt enough, everyone who gets to it is in...

Feats like 500 HR, 1,500+ RBI, 3000 Hits, 300 Wins, 3000Ks, etc....that gets you in and even with the gaudy numbers being put up today--those numbers are still VERY hard to reach.

TK

3701 Ks won't even get you in, apparently.

With 13 of the 25 (counting Sheffield even though he has 499) 500 Home Run hitters hitting that milestone in the 80s, 90s, or 00s, it just doesn't mean what it used to. I believe we will see more and more 500 Home Run hitters waiting (and waiting) for the HOF in the next 50 years.

300 wins will still be an automatic ticket.

David

You make a great point.


There's no doubt in my mind that Blyleven will get in...why he hasn't yet is anybody's guess.
I agree that in the near future 500 hr hitters might wait, but will get in.


Thome is a HOF'er, no doubt. Without 500 hr's does he get in? No. Not a chance imo. But, he has hit 500+ homers, so he gets in. That's just the way it is regardless of how some fans see it.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

The question was..."If they retire today...who makes the HOF?"

So, instead of making "Well, if..." statements about players who are "on track" etc., I'll stick with who I believe are locks. (NOTE: Each player has the required 10 years of MLB service - a requirement of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And for those who want to argue for Ichiro, until Sadaharu Oh gets into the Hall of Fame for his Japanese homeruns...let's not get carried away in thinking the MLB changes their rules for Ichiro. Japanese numbers aren't close to any valid comparison for MLB numbers.)

PITCHERS
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens (*gulp*)
Mariano Rivera
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine

HITTERS
Barry Bonds (*gulp*)
Alex Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr.
Derek Jeter
Frank Thomas
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa

On this list there are a few "unemployed" yet not officially retired players, so I have kept them on this list. To me, these are non-debatable locks, a trait of what I believe to be the definition of a "Hall of Fame" player - no debate.

Could this list be longer? Sure, but we then get into debatable territory.

In regards to the 500HR, 3000 hits etc...being an automatic bid to the HOF...Palmeiro will be the first to have both and not make it. He is the greatest example of "stat compiler" in MLB history.

 

[ncallstar]

To me, Schilling should be in.

He was one of the best pitchers of our generation, even if he was quite annoying.

 

[kyle1707]

First off i finally found this board after being on beckett board for years. good to see alot of the old names. still can't believe they did that to the beckett board. i miss all the box breaks.

The one person that has been brought up only once or twice is chipper jones. he said in a recent article that he will play untill he is 40. thats 3-4 more years. He will play 120 games a year so if health stays with him that is another 480 games.

He will end up
HR's 475-500
RBIS 1500 plus
Doubles 550-600
Hits over 2500
Switch hitter
Life time average 310.
WS ring
MVP
Batting tittle
Few gold gloves?
in playoffs 10 times
Same team for 20 years when he is done.

I see hime getting 85% on first ballot. making it easy.

Also with the thome arguments. i think he will hit 600 hr's. he will be first ballot. i mean drug testing has been very tough last 2-3 years and he is in his late 30's and he is still hitting 35 hr's a year. that it is a lot of proof in the statemnet for thome.

the guy i love and worry about is bagwell. i think it will take him 5-10 years to get in.