If they retire today...who makes the HOF?

[F-Topps]

Vladimir Guerrero could be on that list

+1

 

[darocker80]

ichiro, griffey jr, vlad, chipper jones, randy johnson, greg maddux, tom glavine,

 

[crowhop]

The question was..."If they retire today...who makes the HOF?"

So, instead of making "Well, if..." statements about players who are "on track" etc., I'll stick with who I believe are locks. (NOTE: Each player has the required 10 years of MLB service - a requirement of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And for those who want to argue for Ichiro, until Sadaharu Oh gets into the Hall of Fame for his Japanese homeruns...let's not get carried away in thinking the MLB changes their rules for Ichiro. Japanese numbers aren't close to any valid comparison for MLB numbers.)

PITCHERS
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens (*gulp*)
Mariano Rivera
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine

HITTERS
Barry Bonds (*gulp*)
Alex Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr.
Derek Jeter
Frank Thomas
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa

On this list there are a few "unemployed" yet not officially retired players, so I have kept them on this list. To me, these are non-debatable locks, a trait of what I believe to be the definition of a "Hall of Fame" player - no debate.

Could this list be longer? Sure, but we then get into debatable territory.

In regards to the 500HR, 3000 hits etc...being an automatic bid to the HOF...Palmeiro will be the first to have both and not make it. He is the greatest example of "stat compiler" in MLB history.

Pedro is a lock is a lock is a lock.
Smoltz is too.

good stuff.

 

[XdanX]

change1

 

[darocker80]

The question was..."If they retire today...who makes the HOF?"

So, instead of making "Well, if..." statements about players who are "on track" etc., I'll stick with who I believe are locks. (NOTE: Each player has the required 10 years of MLB service - a requirement of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And for those who want to argue for Ichiro, until Sadaharu Oh gets into the Hall of Fame for his Japanese homeruns...let's not get carried away in thinking the MLB changes their rules for Ichiro. Japanese numbers aren't close to any valid comparison for MLB numbers.)

PITCHERS
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens (*gulp*)
Mariano Rivera
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine

HITTERS
Barry Bonds (*gulp*)
Alex Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr.
Derek Jeter
Frank Thomas
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa

On this list there are a few "unemployed" yet not officially retired players, so I have kept them on this list. To me, these are non-debatable locks, a trait of what I believe to be the definition of a "Hall of Fame" player - no debate.

Could this list be longer? Sure, but we then get into debatable territory.

In regards to the 500HR, 3000 hits etc...being an automatic bid to the HOF...Palmeiro will be the first to have both and not make it. He is the greatest example of "stat compiler" in MLB history.

Pedro is a lock is a lock is a lock.
Smoltz is too.

good stuff.

How the heck is Ichiro not a lock.

 

[crowhop]

The question was..."If they retire today...who makes the HOF?"

So, instead of making "Well, if..." statements about players who are "on track" etc., I'll stick with who I believe are locks. (NOTE: Each player has the required 10 years of MLB service - a requirement of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And for those who want to argue for Ichiro, until Sadaharu Oh gets into the Hall of Fame for his Japanese homeruns...let's not get carried away in thinking the MLB changes their rules for Ichiro. Japanese numbers aren't close to any valid comparison for MLB numbers.)

PITCHERS
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens (*gulp*)
Mariano Rivera
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine

HITTERS
Barry Bonds (*gulp*)
Alex Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr.
Derek Jeter
Frank Thomas
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa

On this list there are a few "unemployed" yet not officially retired players, so I have kept them on this list. To me, these are non-debatable locks, a trait of what I believe to be the definition of a "Hall of Fame" player - no debate.

Could this list be longer? Sure, but we then get into debatable territory.

In regards to the 500HR, 3000 hits etc...being an automatic bid to the HOF...Palmeiro will be the first to have both and not make it. He is the greatest example of "stat compiler" in MLB history.

Pedro is a lock is a lock is a lock.
Smoltz is too.

good stuff.

How the heck is Ichiro not a lock.

the same way Pujols isn't a lock. if they turn into Andruw Jones tomorrow, they aren't HOFs. they are very, very close though and would likely get in at some point in time. but not on the first try.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

The question was..."If they retire today...who makes the HOF?"

So, instead of making "Well, if..." statements about players who are "on track" etc., I'll stick with who I believe are locks. (NOTE: Each player has the required 10 years of MLB service - a requirement of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And for those who want to argue for Ichiro, until Sadaharu Oh gets into the Hall of Fame for his Japanese homeruns...let's not get carried away in thinking the MLB changes their rules for Ichiro. Japanese numbers aren't close to any valid comparison for MLB numbers.)

PITCHERS
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens (*gulp*)
Mariano Rivera
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine

HITTERS
Barry Bonds (*gulp*)
Alex Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr.
Derek Jeter
Frank Thomas
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Mike Piazza
Ivan Rodriguez
Sammy Sosa

On this list there are a few "unemployed" yet not officially retired players, so I have kept them on this list. To me, these are non-debatable locks, a trait of what I believe to be the definition of a "Hall of Fame" player - no debate.

Could this list be longer? Sure, but we then get into debatable territory.

In regards to the 500HR, 3000 hits etc...being an automatic bid to the HOF...Palmeiro will be the first to have both and not make it. He is the greatest example of "stat compiler" in MLB history.

Pedro is a lock is a lock is a lock.
Smoltz is too.

good stuff.

How the heck is Ichiro not a lock.

Your ability to read is impressive.

"Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A)." - straight from the Hall of Fame's "Rules for Election to the Hall of Fame." And while I have to assume that your math skills are as excellent as your reading skills, Ichiro has played eight (8) years in the MLB, and eight (8) is less than ten (10). Also, there is no logical reason to include or even consider his time and stats in Japan, no debating here. All of that said, I hardly believe that the HOF will change their rules for him.

Ask this exact same question in two years, and Ichiro will be a lock.

In regards to Pedro Martinez...I can see him going the route of Jim Rice, Andre Dawson etc...he dominated no doubt, but the length he dominated was really 7 years. Will he get in? Sure, but people will debate his period of dominance and hold back votes.

 

[crowhop]

In regards to Pedro Martinez...I can see him going the route of Jim Rice, Andre Dawson etc...he dominated no doubt, but the length he dominated was really 7 years. Will he get in? Sure, but people will debate his period of dominance and hold back votes.

for those years he was the most dominant pitcher of a generation. the only guy close is Randy Johnson. he's today's Sandy Koufax and i think that is how he'll be rememered.

he is greatly helped by having two of the three greatest single seasons ever in baseball history as well.

 

[wolfmanalfredo]

Smoltz, Pudge, Jeter eventually, Unfortunetly Arod. So all of them eventually.

 

[scotty21690]

How can you say Pedro is not a HOF lock?!

.684 W% [Incredible]
3,000+ K's
4:1 K/BB ratio!
Sub 3 career ERA!
Career WHIP of 1.05
3 Cy Young awards and 4 other times he has finished top 5
8 AS
6-2 Postseason record

All that and he was dominant for a long time. Pedro is a lock.

 

[darocker80]

Ichiro got mpv and roy in first seasonm, 8 straight gold gloves, 8 time all star (in a row) always 200+ hits .300 avg 30+ sb and has the record for most hits in a season. And about to break another record for 9 years straight of 200+hits and .300 avg

 

[monty01]

Pedro Martinez is a lock.

You cant be serious LOL

 

[crowhop]

Ichiro got mpv and roy in first seasonm, 8 straight gold gloves, 8 time all star (in a row) always 200+ hits .300 avg 30+ sb and has the record for most hits in a season. And about to break another record for 9 years straight of 200+hits and .300 avg

the AS thing has become meaningless, you know that right. he could be absolutely terrible and be the starter in the AS game because of the voting system in place. everything else says he gets in once he hits his 10 years.

 

[scotty21690]

Pedro Martinez is a lock.

You cant be serious LOL

Be my guest...and prove me and crow wrong.


Go.

 

[crowhop]

Pedro Martinez is a lock.

You cant be serious LOL

very.

 

[200lbhockeyplayer]

How can you say Pedro is not a HOF lock?!

.684 W% [Incredible]
3,000+ K's
4:1 K/BB ratio!
Sub 3 career ERA!
Career WHIP of 1.05
3 Cy Young awards and 4 other times he has finished top 5
8 AS
6-2 Postseason record

All that and he was dominant for a long time. Pedro is a lock.

For the second time in this that I have to quote myself..."In regards to Pedro Martinez...I can see him going the route of Jim Rice, Andre Dawson etc...he dominated no doubt, but the length he dominated was really 7 years. Will he get in? Sure, but people will debate his period of dominance and hold back votes."

Yes, he will get in, but I would not be shocked if it was not on the first ballot. And to me, "locks" are first ballot HOFers, without question...and there will be writers that question him on the first ballot.

 

[MOFNY]

Pedro was first in ERA 5 years, first in WHIP 6 years, K/9 5 years, K/BB 4 years, Ks 3 years, ERA+ 5 years, etc. Oh and also he is first all time among starters in ERA+. That isn't the highest for his generation, or for the last 50 years, that is in the entire history of baseball.

 

[scotty21690]

Pedro was first in ERA 5 years, first in WHIP 6 years, K/9 5 years, K/BB 4 years, Ks 3 years, ERA+ 5 years, etc. Oh and also he is first all time among starters in ERA+. That isn't the highest for his generation, or for the last 50 years, that is in the entire history of baseball.

~He's still not a HOF 1st ballot lock~

 

[scotty21690]

Hmm now that you mention it...

Pedro is:

-7th in career W%
-5th in career WHIP
-8th in career H/9
-3rd in career K/9
-13th in career K's
-3rd in career K/BB


~Yet...he's still not a 1st ballot HOFer!!~

 

[pujolsthomefan33]

How can you say Pedro is not a HOF lock?!

.684 W% [Incredible]
3,000+ K's
4:1 K/BB ratio
Sub 3 career ERA!
Career WHIP of 1.05
3 Cy Young awards and 4 other times he has finished top 5
8 AS
6-2 Postseason record

All that and he was dominant for a long time. Pedro is a lock.

For the second time in this that I have to quote myself..."In regards to Pedro Martinez...I can see him going the route of Jim Rice, Andre Dawson etc...he dominated no doubt, but the length he dominated was really 7 years. Will he get in? Sure, but people will debate his period of dominance and hold back votes."

Yes, he will get in, but I would not be shocked if it was not on the first ballot. And to me, "locks" are first ballot HOFers, without question...and there will be writers that question him on the first ballot.

Bert Blyleven is the reason that Pedro is not a lock.....plus Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, and Randy Johnson will all surely see the HOF (AS LOCKS) before Pedro Martinez..regardless of when he retires. I agree with above statement, his stats show he has a great shot at getting in, but I do not see him as a lock......lets look at stats that really matter, and not Post season record, or AS appearances, or finishing in the top 5 in Cy Youngs 4 times......

Lets look at 3 Starting Pitchers...one a HOF lock (Greg Maddux), 1 on the outside looking in (Bert Blyleven), and then Pedro Martinez


Greg Maddux
355W-227L 3.16 ERA 3371 K 109 CGs 35 SHO 1.14 WHIP

Bert Blyleven
287W-251L 3.31 ERA 3701 Ks 242 CGs 60 SHO 1.19 WHIP

Pedro Martinez
214W-99L 2.91 ERA 3117 Ks 46 GGs 17 SHO 1.05 WHIP



I do not see the argument for Pedro Martinez being a lock??? Is he good--YES!! Was he the most dominant Pitcher of his era--NO!! I said this before and I will say it again, his lack of performance consistently over his career is hurting him. He is OVER 200 Wins/Losses less than Blyleven and Maddux----this is not even games started, just game where they got decisions.


TK